Rules Question - Hoffman

JTJIII · 09-01-2009, 11:11 AM

I was at the Barclay's on Sunday sitting behind the ninth green and saw a strange incident with Charlie Hoffman and wondered whether it was a rule's violation or not. He didn't declare it, or ask for a ruling but it's bugged me since I saw it. I'm interested to hear from anyone who knows. Here's what happened:

Hoffman hit a bad second shot that came up short of the green in one of those tightly mowed bowls below the green. He tried to hit a wedge up to the hole but stubbed it short onto the green's false front. Hoffman was furious and whacked the ground with his wedge which sent a big divot flying in two pieces into the air. One of the divots landed behind his ball which by this time was already rolling backward towards Hoffman - back down into the bowl...except the ball hit the divot and stopped. The tour was playing lift, clean and place so Hoffman just marked his ball where it was - jammed up against this divot he had hit there - and then threw the divot away. His caddy cleaned the ball and he replaced it.

Hoffman chipped on from there and 2 putted. I saw later he gave himself a double bogey but wondered whether he should have taken a penalty too. Does anyone know?

Hunter Mahan was there and didn't say anything, but Hoffman was pretty steamed and almost came to blows with a spectator who called him a choker for missing his first putt - so maybe Mahan didn't want to involve himself at that point....just wondering.

provisional · 09-01-2009, 11:24 AM

Does not sound right. Perhaps it is one of those things "all the pros do"...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jsquared

I was at the Barclay's on Sunday sitting behind the ninth green and saw a strange incident with Charlie Hoffman and wondered whether it was a rule's violation or not. He didn't declare it, or ask for a ruling but it's bugged me since I saw it. I'm interested to hear from anyone who knows. Here's what happened:

Hoffman hit a bad second shot that came up short of the green in one of those tightly mowed bowls below the green. He tried to hit a wedge up to the hole but stubbed it short onto the green's false front. Hoffman was furious and whacked the ground with his wedge which sent a big divot flying in two pieces into the air. One of the divots landed behind his ball which by this time was already rolling backward towards Hoffman - back down into the bowl...except the ball hit the divot and stopped. The tour was playing lift, clean and place so Hoffman just marked his ball where it was - jammed up against this divot he had hit there - and then threw the divot away. His caddy cleaned the ball and he replaced it.

Hoffman chipped on from there and 2 putted. I saw later he gave himself a double bogey but wondered whether he should have taken a penalty too. Does anyone know?

Hunter Mahan was there and didn't say anything, but Hoffman was pretty steamed and almost came to blows with a spectator who called him a choker for missing his first putt - so maybe Mahan didn't want to involve himself at that point....just wondering.

JPsuff · 09-01-2009, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by provisional

Does not sound right. Perhaps it is one of those things "all the pros do"...

-JP

OrlandoGolfBlog · 09-01-2009, 11:31 AM

Wow, that's a crazy scenario.. I'm certain this warrants a penalty of some sort.

JPsuff · 09-01-2009, 11:42 AM

I think this answers the question:

19-2/9 Divot Taken After Stroke Strikes Ball in Motion

Q. A player has a short pitch shot to the green. He makes a stroke and, while the ball is still in motion, he makes a subsequent swing and takes a divot out of the ground with his club. The divot deflects or stops the moving ball. What is the ruling?

A. The player is deemed to have accidentally deflected or stopped his ball in motion. He incurs a penalty of one stroke and must play the ball as it lies (Rule 19-2). (New)

-JP

Smallville · 09-01-2009, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OrlandoGolfBlog

Wow, that's a crazy scenario.. I'm certain this warrants a penalty of some sort.

At this point, would it warrant a disqualification of some sort? Signing an incorrect scorecard for lower than what you shot? I wonder if anyone important might see this thread and check it out? Wouldn't it be cool if later today or tomorrow we see a story about this?

JTJIII · 09-01-2009, 11:59 AM

I would be sweet until hoffman came to my house to get me

biggsy · 09-01-2009, 01:17 PM

I have a feeling this will not go away quietly.

Did Hoffman Cheat?

Smallville · 09-01-2009, 01:22 PM

Cool. More promotion for THP!

AHacker'sHacker · 09-01-2009, 01:52 PM

Now you better watch your back Jsquared!

biggsy · 09-02-2009, 12:33 PM

Waggleroom got a response from the PGA on this incident.

Hoffman responds

JPsuff · 09-02-2009, 12:53 PM

So in other words, the official statement from the PGA about a PGA player is: "We know that you believe that you saw what you think you saw however we're not sure if you realize that what you saw was not really what happened."

Sort of like the big power plant being accused of polluting the water but denying it because THEY THEMSELVES tested the water and found no pollution.

So if something like that ever happens to me on the course, I can avoid any penalty by simply telling everyone how honest I am?

Sweet!

-JP

JB · 09-02-2009, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPsuff

So in other words, the official statement from the PGA about a PGA player is: "We know that you believe that you saw what you think you saw however we're not sure if you realize that what you saw was not really what happened."

Sort of like the big power plant being accused of polluting the water but denying it because THEY THEMSELVES tested the water and found no pollution.

So if something like that ever happens to me on the course, I can avoid any penalty by simply telling everyone how honest I am?

Sweet!

-JP

I really do not see it that way. I have never been a huge fan of the PGA and how they operate on a business side. However in this case, they said they looked at the film and facts and do not see it as some of the fans did.

This is no different than any league that deems if late hits or technicals deserve further action. I just do not see how using your analogy is the same thing. The PGA would suffer no harm had they dq'd him or any harm had they said it was no penalty. Much different than the power plant analogy that aims to protect oneself.

JPsuff · 09-02-2009, 01:08 PM

Whatever...

-JP

Gummi Bear · 09-02-2009, 07:32 PM

I think Hoffman should be kicked hard, right square in the nuts, just for being a complete tool. <---wanna guess who I don't root for?

Hunter Mahan should have said something.

Charley's actions seldom show him as a man of integrity, as the PGA colors him in that response.

09-01-2009, 11:11 AM	#1
JTJIII Amateur Join Date: May 2009 Member Number: 969 Handicap: 10.1 Location: SJ,Canada Posts: 233 Blog Entries: 1	Rules Question - Hoffman I was at the Barclay's on Sunday sitting behind the ninth green and saw a strange incident with Charlie Hoffman and wondered whether it was a rule's violation or not. He didn't declare it, or ask for a ruling but it's bugged me since I saw it. I'm interested to hear from anyone who knows. Here's what happened: Hoffman hit a bad second shot that came up short of the green in one of those tightly mowed bowls below the green. He tried to hit a wedge up to the hole but stubbed it short onto the green's false front. Hoffman was furious and whacked the ground with his wedge which sent a big divot flying in two pieces into the air. One of the divots landed behind his ball which by this time was already rolling backward towards Hoffman - back down into the bowl...except the ball hit the divot and stopped. The tour was playing lift, clean and place so Hoffman just marked his ball where it was - jammed up against this divot he had hit there - and then threw the divot away. His caddy cleaned the ball and he replaced it. Hoffman chipped on from there and 2 putted. I saw later he gave himself a double bogey but wondered whether he should have taken a penalty too. Does anyone know? Hunter Mahan was there and didn't say anything, but Hoffman was pretty steamed and almost came to blows with a spectator who called him a choker for missing his first putt - so maybe Mahan didn't want to involve himself at that point....just wondering.
	__________________ Three Five(yellow) R9 460 07Burner 3W Baffler Pro 18* R7 TP 4-PW VR Wedges 56, 60 Newport 2 35'' TP Black, Penta

09-01-2009, 11:31 AM	#4
OrlandoGolfBlog KISS MY A** BALL!! Join Date: Jul 2009 Member Number: 584 Handicap: 23.1 Location: Orlando, FL 32837 Posts: 407	Wow, that's a crazy scenario.. I'm certain this warrants a penalty of some sort.
	__________________ In my Bag Driver: DYMO Str8-Fit 3 Wood: Hybrids: Staff 3h & 4h Fybrid Irons: Burner Wedges: 52, 56, & 60 Putter: Blade Balls: Gamer

09-01-2009, 11:42 AM	#5
JPsuff Never Give Up! Join Date: Jul 2009 Member Number: 658 Handicap: Bouncy Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 908	I think this answers the question: 19-2/9 Divot Taken After Stroke Strikes Ball in Motion Q. A player has a short pitch shot to the green. He makes a stroke and, while the ball is still in motion, he makes a subsequent swing and takes a divot out of the ground with his club. The divot deflects or stops the moving ball. What is the ruling? A. The player is deemed to have accidentally deflected or stopped his ball in motion. He incurs a penalty of one stroke and must play the ball as it lies (Rule 19-2). (New) -JP
	__________________ MY BAG --- DRIVER: TM R7 425 TP 3-WOOD: Nike SQ3+ 4-WOOD: Nike SQ4 HYBRID: Nike CPR IRONS (3-PW): Snake Eyes 600B WEDGES: 51 & 55 deg. Snake Eyes 655TM PUTTER: Odyssey Dual Force II #2 ____________________________________________ You're just jealous because the voices only talk to me!

09-01-2009, 11:59 AM	#7
JTJIII Amateur Join Date: May 2009 Member Number: 969 Handicap: 10.1 Location: SJ,Canada Posts: 233 Blog Entries: 1	I would be sweet until hoffman came to my house to get me
	__________________ Three Five(yellow) R9 460 07Burner 3W Baffler Pro 18* R7 TP 4-PW VR Wedges 56, 60 Newport 2 35'' TP Black, Penta

09-01-2009, 01:17 PM	#8
biggsy GC @ Sugarloaf Mountain Join Date: Jul 2009 Member Number: 659 Handicap: 5.0 Location: Fort Myers, FL Posts: 403	I have a feeling this will not go away quietly. Did Hoffman Cheat?
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09-01-2009, 01:22 PM	#9
Smallville Bazinga! Join Date: Oct 2008 Member Number: 15 Handicap: Bad swing Location: Kansas City, KS Posts: 12,481 Blog Entries: 1	Cool. More promotion for THP!
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09-01-2009, 01:52 PM	#10
AHacker'sHacker Who is John Galt? Join Date: May 2009 Member Number: 430 Handicap: WIP Location: Saint Louis, MO Posts: 982	Now you better watch your back Jsquared!
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09-02-2009, 12:33 PM	#11
biggsy GC @ Sugarloaf Mountain Join Date: Jul 2009 Member Number: 659 Handicap: 5.0 Location: Fort Myers, FL Posts: 403	Waggleroom got a response from the PGA on this incident. Hoffman responds
	__________________ Driver: FT-9 9.5 deg. Tour Fairway: FT-i Squareway 5 wood Hybrid: Burner 19 deg. Irons: X-14 Tour Wedges: CG15 60, 900 Series 56, 52 Putter: Craz-e i Series Ball: Pro V1X, Testing AD333, Tour B330-S

09-02-2009, 12:53 PM	#12
JPsuff Never Give Up! Join Date: Jul 2009 Member Number: 658 Handicap: Bouncy Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 908	So in other words, the official statement from the PGA about a PGA player is: "We know that you believe that you saw what you think you saw however we're not sure if you realize that what you saw was not really what happened." Sort of like the big power plant being accused of polluting the water but denying it because THEY THEMSELVES tested the water and found no pollution. So if something like that ever happens to me on the course, I can avoid any penalty by simply telling everyone how honest I am? Sweet! -JP
	__________________ MY BAG --- DRIVER: TM R7 425 TP 3-WOOD: Nike SQ3+ 4-WOOD: Nike SQ4 HYBRID: Nike CPR IRONS (3-PW): Snake Eyes 600B WEDGES: 51 & 55 deg. Snake Eyes 655TM PUTTER: Odyssey Dual Force II #2 ____________________________________________ You're just jealous because the voices only talk to me!

09-02-2009, 01:08 PM	#14
JPsuff Never Give Up! Join Date: Jul 2009 Member Number: 658 Handicap: Bouncy Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 908	Whatever... -JP
	__________________ MY BAG --- DRIVER: TM R7 425 TP 3-WOOD: Nike SQ3+ 4-WOOD: Nike SQ4 HYBRID: Nike CPR IRONS (3-PW): Snake Eyes 600B WEDGES: 51 & 55 deg. Snake Eyes 655TM PUTTER: Odyssey Dual Force II #2 ____________________________________________ You're just jealous because the voices only talk to me!

09-02-2009, 07:32 PM	#15
Gummi Bear I blew out my flip-flop Join Date: Oct 2008 Member Number: 19 Handicap: ♠ Location: D/FW, Texas Posts: 3,094	I think Hoffman should be kicked hard, right square in the nuts, just for being a complete tool. <---wanna guess who I don't root for? Hunter Mahan should have said something. Charley's actions seldom show him as a man of integrity, as the PGA colors him in that response.
	__________________ I like to think of myself as a student of the game... it's just too bad that I'm in special ed. (\__/) (='.'=) (")_(") In my Sasquatch Tour Bag: G10 10.5° \| G10 17° 4 wood \| G10 18°, 21°, 24° \| S57 5-PW \| 52°, 56°, 60° \| 33" Tracy

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