There are a number of devices out there and recently I have been experimenting with quite a few of them (reviews coming). Arccos, Shot Scope and others are designed to give you the data you want, without really interrupting your round of golf.
Post round, there can be a lot or a little to dive into, completely based on what you are looking for. From what clubs you are efficient with, to where you are losing strokes and need more practice.
My question is, do you want to know? Are you ready for data that is designed to help you get better and choose clubs appropriately?
Totally agree. I think there is potentially a ton of useful information. I am just not sure I would even know what to do with it. It is more of a me problem not a system problem. Although I have read a bunch about how buggy and inconsistent these system can be. That may just be because many reviewing it don’t know what they are doing. Plus until arccos actually releases their link (I think it is called). I am out, I don’t like having stuff in my pocket when I play.
I’m in the same boat. I have never tracked my shots with each club enough to know to true distances, etc. I would really love to have a Trackman to figure this all out, but, you know, that’s way out of my price range. I try tracking shots with The Grint but usually end up remembering when I’ve already started walking towards the ball.
But what really matters to us is information – what do the data mean, how do we process the data? A long time ago, I attended a quality conference where an IBM plant manager was speaking about how they turned around a hard disk plant. He said, "We were drowning in data and starving for information."
James is an example of someone who generates a lot of information about his game while on the course. His model doesn’t rely on "wearables" to give him the data he needs. To be fair, he also generates a lot of data on the range that I think he uses to tailor his game.
Others of us use the wearables data to validate/refine a model to some degree or another. I see JB’s comments as placing him in this "trust but verify" camp.
I think the rest of us feel our models of our game are good enough and no further validation other than the scorecard is needed. I get that, but I personally prefer to have the shot data, because I have been surprised many times.
Yep, I’m firmly in this boat. I like data, and seeing if the data backs up what I know, or if it gives me a point to look at more and adjust.
This is why i’m eager to track with Arccos. I don’t want to track each shot manually with button clicks, but I want to see how invasive using Arccos is or is not.
Sometimes I’m surprised or wrong about what I thought or what strategy I was using, but for the most part I don’t think it’s that hard to figure out weaknesses and strengths – at least at my level of golf.
Data does serve the purpose of settling pissing contests when someone calls you out on a statement about your game.
Trying to understand. Are you thinking, according to the data that a 7 iron might be more efficient than a 8 iron? So what happens if the shot requires an 8 iron?
That being said, while I think technology is a great tool it doesn’t take rocket science to know that ones approach shots are all coming from the right rough or that bunker play needs work. When I started as a kid we played everything by feel and guesswork-and it worked out. Even today I’ll go out sometimes with my son and we’ll play without any distance devises or play the shot then measure afterwards. To me it’s the difference between playing golf and being a golfer. I play tennis but I’m not a tennis player.
For me the best learning technology is the technology like Trackman that measures spin, launch angle, angle of descent etc. That will improve your game much more than tracking how often you three putt-which you can do in your head.
Sorry in advance for the rant.
That being said, there are definitely times where I want it
I will leave the data to the fitters when I want to replace my clubs.
It’s been eye opening to see/review the data compile as the year has gone on, and through the MC we’ve been given the chance to test the Arccos caddie function and while I may not always agree with the club selection, or suggested path to the hole. I’ve convinced myself that I’m going to give it a go for the next couple rounds and see what comes of it.
Care to elaborate? Are you saying that the averages aren’t accurate because you’re hitting knockdowns, partial shots, etc.?
To expand on this, I am really intrigued to see what clubs I hardly use, I already have an idea, but with actual data to back it up. It could lead to clubs being changed around.
I already track Fairways and Green hit along with Putts, but don’t have any proper data on yardages etc.
It will be soo nice to not have to get my phone from the bag after each hole to enter the score, club used, fairway hit etc
I can easily cope with pressing a button as I get the ball from the hole
I don’t full swing every club trying to hit its max distance. 125 in? I may hit 54, 48, P, or even 9 depending on the shot I want to hit.
Kind of where I’m at as well. I’m cool with the Trackman/Flight Scope products when trying new equipment and comparing it to old but that’s about it.
Good point. Also wind could really skew the numbers into something useless
I agree here and I don’t think thats what the software is about. It doesn’t factor in every single shot. Heck I use my 4 or 5i a zillion times to punch out of the trees but that doesn’t affect my average overall. Its not for everyone I completely get it though.
Gotcha. That’s where I thought you were going with it. I agree, too. Though tedious, it is possible to go back and take out that 125y 9i that you hit so it doesn’t skew the results, but, if you’re like me, you don’t feel like sorting through every shot and trying to decided whether to keep it.
Yeah, I know that GolfPad will do that for the outliers. If I hit a 40y 3wd to punch out of the trees, it won’t factor it into my averages just as it wouldn’t factor in that 150y LW that I thinned over the green. However, if I hit a 110y knockdown 7i, I think it would keep it. It’s not a perfect system, but it’s there and at least in GolfPad, I can go in and change whether it keeps any given shot.
I still find that info very useful. I track every shot. Tee to green. Punch out to high flyer from the fairway. Most apps account for the ones you’re hitting less than full for whatever reason in their distance calculations. Regardless, I like being able to see all the tracked shots where I hit a 54 from 85 or a 9-iron from 95 or something else not-standard and seeing what the actual result and accumulated results are. Still plenty to learn from that, and doesn’t affect their ‘smart club’ or ”expected distance’ or averages or whatever.
I also think I play in more wind than just about anyone who posts here, and I’ve found the averages to work out pretty close in the end. Definitely doesn’t render anything useless. I end up with a lot of crushed 240/245 drive dots and on my chart, but also some 320s and it all comes out about the same. In fact, seeing what my exact distances are in certain conditions has helped determine smarter play in those conditions. Definitely more useful than not.
It’s like I said earlier, I think it’s great for many, I’m just an exception to the rule with how I play and the fact that it’s all information I already know with as many rounds as I play.
I started using Arccos this Summer and it has been huge for me. Even simply knowing that my Gap Wedge and Driver are my highest volume use.. Shows me what clubs I should practice with the most. Learning where my misses are with each club, or what gives me the best chance to hit the fairway by a percentage.. True game changer.
Not at all, but I do think distance is one of the most interesting elements, especially with players that are not A+ ball strikers. Just about everybody we have seen data on, hits it shorter on average than they think with their irons. It’s actually quite interesting.
But for me, one of the best areas, was seeing how efficient I was at both the top and bottom of the bag and seeing clubs that I thought I used frequently, not used nearly as much as I thought.
GIR would be nice if it was tracked automatically. Same thing for FIR.
I’d like to have the data and whatever it is come from something I just turn it on and go… so, until Arccos and the other data gatherers evolve a bit more to be less user intensive, I’ll hold off on buying them.
– distances (green, hazards, etc)
– typical club distances (avg, especially avg if played course or hole before
– view of hole and plan of attack
For some people, data causes them to seize up or become distracted. However, the knowing relaxes me and reduces distractions when I swing (I see it as fewer variables to consider).
Agree with that, but not just irons. What I do find that can be beneficial from tracking on-course data is that the results are actually from real course experiences and not "Trackman" golf. As we know most amateur golfers have different course swings, driving range swings and simulator swings.
I am more concerned with my misses. What is my average score when I short side myself. Am I typically better missing short or long? What is my average score after going in a hazard off the tee? Then, I can cross reference that to see what my average score from a certain yardage is. If I can prove to my stubborn brain and see data that says, don’t hit a driver and risk the water, you are better off playing two or three clubs longer into the hole. Or a bunker? Things like that I feel would really help a person like me finally play smarter. Maybe those things are still something I would have to hammer into my brain manually.
This is where I use it. I can’t speak to arccos or anything, but having all shots tracked and the information available and sortable basically convinces me of things I didn’t realize or had a little wrong. It started as browsing through and thinking ‘that can’t be right’ (because it doesn’t seem like it), and finding out that ______ was right. That I thought wrong about something in my game.
Like just this morning I was looking at my par 3 greens percentage based on distance and one distance range that’s always on the poorer side. My home course had a really hard 230 yd’er with a small green and I always ‘knew’ that’s what drug down the percentage. I’ve said it multiple times. Out loud, to other people. Lol. Yeah, so turns out that’s not it. That I actually hit that green on that course slightly more than I thought. I just tend to miss in a crap spot, and have one of my worst hole specific scrambling percentages on that hole because of it. So my scoring suffers and slightly changes my perception. I will change my approach accordingly and since I’ve now moved I wish I had looked deeper at that hole earlier. And this happened to a guy who knows his game very well and spends hours in a typical day analysing this stuff. Being able to see how I score after being in a fairway bunker, or one on a specific hole, and a thousand other things constantly informs my strategy. To me the distances are just like a handshake. It’s a start. You’ve met someone, but you know almost nothing about them yet. All the good stuff for me comes after that, and there seems to be no end to discovery if someone chooses to pursue it.
No offense @Jman , but I don’t think there are exceptions to people not knowing every single thing about their game, because we’re human. We can’t store and recall information like an unbiased database. People can not be interested, it not be for them, already know as much as they want to know, etc, and that’s great. No one already knows everything that is available like this though. We’re just not capable, imo.
Knowing distances is good, but it’s also helped me shape my bag to have more useful clubs when they’re actually needed.
What system do you use?
Um….ok? So my opinion on my knowledge of my own game is wrong? Got it.
I just use thegrint app on course, and track everything. It’s definitely not for someone who doesn’t like being on their phone, but the database it builds kind of blows my mind. Someone can ask me the most random specific thing about my game, and I can probably pull it up in seconds on my phone.
I contemplated using that. But, in the past when trying to use my phone I would usually stop after a few holes. Or, forget to enter something and fumbled around trying to add it after the fact.
I’m just saying you’re not a computer, not anything about your opinion of your game. I don’t think that’s what the data stuff specializes in.
I’ve been pondering either shotscope or arrcos, would you recommend one over the other? Using a Android phone not sure that would matter.
I can’t speak to the Android part on Shot Scope, but struggled with it on Arccos. Since switching to iPhone, I like both systems, but prefer the no sub with Shot Scope and the way the data is presented. I prefer to wear a watch than to have phone in pocket, but both do the job well in my opinion.
As an example, want to see how often you miss long or short with the putter? For me it’s a 50 50 split
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Want to see what percentage of putts you make from a given distance….
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Distance to the hole on approach? This is my stats from 50yds out with my 56 degree from the fairway (don’t be too harsh, I know there’s room for improvement)
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This is just a tiny snap shot of the info that’s available. I really don’t see how anyone wouldn’t benefit from this information.
Damn it. I need need this V3 in my life. My man @Iceman! is giving me the opportunity to test out his old V2 for a little bit so I can get used to the app/data before taking the plunge, which is an awesome gesture. Give me all the data!
I do a good deal in data where golf is concerned. The fact that I’m on the course or range daily with a launch monitor at my disposal for THP reviews means I’m pretty in tune with the data, and as I said, I’m the anomaly as far as that’s concerned, and I stand by that these trackers are good for a great deal of people, but I’m not one, and ya know what? Both of those things are aok.
Love the conversation in here, it’s good stuff.
I really like the information from the watch. Not intrusive at all. Just wearing a watch
I’ve used Game Golf Live for 3 years now. At first, I used the ‘Live’ aspect of it, but ultimately found it unnecessary and, at times, unreliable. Getting the app and belt device to sync via bluetooth did not always work smoothly, so I ditched trying to. Eliminating the need for the phone in this process was a big plus. What has always worked, ‘Live’ or not, is using it just to track shots. I don’t need to upload them on the fly; I prefer to wait to do that after the round now. I’m not going to dig into numbers while playing, anyway. The pace of play at my course is too fast for that nonsense.
I’m looking for alternatives for the inevitable day that GG goes down for good. Having purchased a Cobra Connect club recently, I was able to get the Arccos Completion Kit for a nominal fee. I used it for the first time yesterday for 7 holes. I was a little underwhelmed, honestly, but it’s a small sample to make conclusions. There were too many missed shots and putting details seem lacking. The course mapping at my course was also missing partial and entire tee boxes on some holes, so those shots will be artificially short until that gets corrected. The app behaved strangely at times, flashing on and off as I’d go to touch the screen. I don’t know if that is an Android thing or my phone, but it was really annoying. The app+locator+mobile data trifecta also made for a hot phone in my pocket. I just need to get more data collected during the trial period.
I’m really intrigued by the new Shot Scope coming out; looking forward to learning more about that.
Unfortunately it was terribly inaccurate on distances, locations on the hole, missed shots entirely etc etc etc, It was a cumbersome process to go back in and literally modify almost every hole to become more accurate. To me, at that point it wasnt worth the money nor the time. I can do the data input on my own lol. If it is seamless and has very few errors and gives me extremely good and accurate information on each round, hole, shot……than its invaluable. If its anything less than that…..i can just do it on my own. Lol….but i wont because i dont know anyone who has time to do that stuff. So……it better be pretty damn perfect because bad data isnt helpful whatsoever and neither is going in and having to fix it.
I know that my driving is pretty good, that I dont hit enough greens, dont get up and down enough for par, dont have very good proximity to the hole and need to avoid 3-putts.
What is the data going to tell me that I dont already know? It certainly is interesting technology though.