Andy? Irons and my game?'s

scooterguitar

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Alright, Josh has seen my game and Andy has dealt with my swing a wee bit:D
This is a basic irons related? To play GI or whatever I'm comfy with?

After a lesson in the spring and many hours, I finally started being able to hit irons, before it was hit or miss with any SGI club. I became to love irons and quickly went for more blade-like irons, played Mizunos, and have tried darn near every one out. After Ping s59, 58, I ended up getting the S57's and I truly do love them. I feel they look and play right for me and I am finally mostly content with my irons. When I setup to a GI iron, such as G10, Callys, AP1, etc, I actually feel more intimidated for some reason.

My head also tells me to play GI irons, but for the life of me I can't seem to "gel" with them and I've tried many. Now any club longer than an 8 iron is ok and doesn't bother me, but 8 and shorter I am mindblocked for some reason. I know it has to do with only playing smaller heads and thinner lines this year.

I have read and read many places, shows, etc and there are two obvious sides: GI and you'll lower scores, blades/similar, help with ballstriking and accuracy. I believe in both theories and likely always will. I plan to play at least 3 or more times a week and be at the range the other days this upcoming season, in all likliehood I'll be hitting balls 6 days a week luckily. I have a solid instructor here (told me much of what you did as well Andy, so we're on the right track that way) and he works with me all the time, whether it be a 2 minute helper or full lesson.

MY head is there for the game, I understand it, the basics, the needs, and obstacles. 99/100 shots when I approach them I feel confident and know how I should play it and expect to pull the shot off, however that doesn't always happen. I do fall back on old habits, but am working my rear off to break them once and for all. This late summer I could walk out and shoot high 80's or low 100's still, but my intention is to shoot low 90's consitently this summer and continue to develop my swing. As we spoke Andy, I am a feel player. Tell me techie on the range and I cannot put it into practice until I work on it. I do know pretty good on how or what I did wrong I think.

So, try to switch to GI irons or stick with what I like and feels good to me and let the game develop that way? I think the irons I play now will truly make me a better striker and my mi****s are getting farer and fewer in between. A bad swing or hit is not what I am trying to cover up, basically I want to get away from all bad swings of course.

Thanks bro.
 
We will let amollerud chime in before the rest of us comment here please.
 
Scooter I know that you are going to put in the hours and I saw how determined you are to improve you game. I think that is awesome. I like the approach you have taken to your club selection. I think it is very important to look down at a club and like what you see and feel confident in your ability to make it work. The debate on "game improvement" versus "players" clubs is a good one. There are a number of players on tour who have made the change to "gi" type of irons. I am and always will be a person who wants a golfer to find a club that looks good and get it fit to them. Scooter I would love to see you go with a mixed-split bag. I would love to see the "gi" irons in the bag for your longer clubs and go with the "players" clubs in the 7-pw. I think you are the perfect candidate for that type of a set up. If that is not an option....take the pings in and get them fit for you. I know that you picked up the black dots and they are not the right lenght or lie for you. If you are sticking with them GET FIT!!!! I hope that helps buddy. Good luck to you in meeting your goals!!!
 
Well said Andy. I want to add a couple of things from my conversations with some great club makers recently. When it comes to GI vs Players Clubs, even most "players" are going GI to a degree. THe thought and things that have been put in peoples heads forever were that with a GI club you could not groove your swing and learn your mistakes. Or that you could not work the ball. These are not true at all.

While your mis-hits go straighter and you do not get the ultimate feedback in a blade, GI irons can and do provide feedback. GI clubs are not just to "lower the score", they can help groove a swing just like players clubs can, but in the end, isnt the lower score what everybody is after?

But even more importantly as Andy touched on is getting clubs that fit you. Scooter has played about 6 sets of irons over the last few months and not one of them were fit properly. With that being said, I told scooter from the minute we played together that GI irons would help his game. Distance control is a big issue he has on fat and thin shots and it would be less drastic by GI clubs.

Everybody always wants the coolest and sleekest irons and use the excuse for grooving their swing and working the ball. The fact is that most of the people (Im not talking about Scooter at all) would not be able to tell the difference between a Vokey or a Wallmart special if they were not told it is supposed to perform better. Go with look and feel and get those clubs fitted for you and you will be set for seasons to come.
 
Thanks Andy.
I do see little things in my long irons play, such as wow, all of a sudden I am doing great with the 7, then the 6, and then winter came!
I've always been on that verge of a mixed set, knowing that might satisfy all my needs at this time, just gotta keep hitting various GI's and find it. I wouldn't mind putting in 3 or 4 GI irons if I could consistently hit them. Many times I will try some off the rack and kill them, next time duff like crazy, then I'll pull out something similar to what I play and am fine. So there's another barrier I can't explain.

Next, on the range/shop where I am always at, I will alwasy try every club and just spend time trying various gear, I do truly find that when I am swinging a GI I become lazy and start caring less about my swing, thus a Catch-22 for sure.

I appreciate the time in Florida and on here bro. From what little you saw and commented sure made me feel confident. I do think I'm on that edge of finally dialing things in, then a sleeper bad habit sneaks in and gets me almost everytime, but I should be able to overcome it soon enough.
 
I agree Josh on that I can tell what's up with a GI iron and can get feedback.
Dang mental blocks again. I recall my last comfortable rounds this past summer, with GI irons, on many shots inside 140 I hated them.

Also, the fat and thin hits are what I am working on the most, purely hitting the ball where and how it should be hit. Tee drill coming soon enough:>)
 
It seems to me Scooter that you already have your mind made up about wanting to use Players clubs and I think that COULD work out for you, plus you have them already and do not have to buy anything else. The one problem you are going to run into though is that IIRC your Ping irons are cast. So when you get fitted, if you are more than a degree or so up or down it can be tough to bend.
 
I have no trouble buying new clubs, well that isn't $ related, but for me the $ isn't the issue as I've spent more on worse things in life. I figure a set or two of clubs is well worth the enjoyment they bring.Not sure if my mind is made up, as I do revert back to the what if's a lot, then I play/try GI's and it end sup being the same, go back to the sleeker.What Niceknt's are those you were using JB? Are those GI or player's? Those didn't appear to be honkers in any way, similar in size to my Pings.
 
They are players clubs Scooter. But if you want my honest opinion, I will give it to you. You are a good friend, and we have met and spoken about this personally, so I do not mind saying it. I think you like buying new clubs rather than getting them fit and using the same thing for a few seasons. I do not think you are the type of guy that can keep the same set in their bag for a few seasons and until you can do that, you are always going to have to break them in.

Irons are different than drivers. Drivers, once you buy them, you have the "honeymoon" period. Everything you hit goes straight and you love it for the first few months. Then you wonder what else is out there. Irons are the opposite. You have to work into them, and that is where you are struggling. Once your bag is set and the clubs are fitted for you, if you leave it be for a season or so, your game SHOULD be so much more consistent.
 
I do Josh! It's usually the "I wonder if" that gets me every time!
 
I promise you that you will not get better with your ball striking by doing this.
 
Scooter. Can you get the ball in the air and on the green?

Then your fine. :D

Depends what brand and what week it is:angel:

Seriously, yes, I generally have no issues getting the ball up, it is more accuracy for me I think, JB and Andy feel free please, just need to dial in accuracy left and right yet, but I want to assume much of it is coming from continually trying to hone-in on what my actual swing is and will be. This make sense?
 
Wanted to offshoot some here, and anyone feel free to chime in please, but Andy gimme your thoughts, brutally honest.

Coming back from my trip I was frustrated, meaning I "knew" I was going to shoot decent and I simply did not. Now I know I'll never be club champ or a scratch golfer (would be nice though!), but I do have aspirations of in a few years shooting low-mid 80's consistently, knownglu a lot of work is ahead, but that's much of what I dig, the challenge.

Best way for me to ask/say this is, as an accomplished musician, I know when I hear someone if they can get to another level or not. This is not etched in stone by any means, but something common any pro can see. Though many times we are blindsided by those who never had "it" and they become monsters from time and pure dedication.

No, I do not have "it" in golf, nor think I will, but from what little you have seen, is my goal of consistent 80's in 2-3 years easily feasible or a loooong obstacle? My mind tells me it easily within reach, but sad days in the cold leave me thinking and teary eyed.

With most anything, there are those plateaus we reach and getting uphill to the next one is the absolute hardest thing to do it seems, but almost overnight those levels 'just happen."

Make sense?
 
Low to mid 80s is reachable. But it is not easy for anybody to get there. I got to play two rounds with you at a challenging course, and you had good shots and bad shots like we all have. I think with lessons and hard work you could get to where you want to be.

But let's remember the most important thing. You have to enjoy playing regardless of score. Otherwise it will not be worth it.

I also want to add that I do feel changing your clubs each and every month has hindered your play. Every club is going to have a different feel to an extent and not one set has been fit for you. I think by settling on some clubs and getting them fit as well as practice, you will be able to enjoy yourself more and more and your goals will be easier to reach.
 
Yes JB, I forgot to add: Even though I played poopy, if you recall I kept saying "this is awesome!" I do that on the old goat tracks up here, even when I'm baaaad, I still enjoy just being out and hitting balls, sometimes MANY balls:>)
Basically why I quit some years back was, just never got any better and I was horrid and it became too cumbersome and frustrating, but I had 1% of the knowledge I have now, so I am hoping it it simply dedication. As with anything, if you no longer enjoy it, don't do it or find something else. NOTE: Not for the kids in school, keep with school even though you might hate it!

Will do on clubs, almost have bag dialed in now, happy with almost all of it, just have to fill the 3w gap. But, the old questioning of gi thing jumps in, thus my feelings. I'd still love to hear what others' thoughts are on GI vs. players. Obviosuly, amount of time avilable to play is a huge determining factor I would think in that. If I could only play 1-2 times a week, no ? it would be GI regardless, but playing alot I have to "gut it out" and keep going with the 57's for time being I think.
 
The irons are not going to matter too much if they are not fitted to you. Then it is just about aesthetics.
 
Ben Hogan honestly believed any reasonably athletic and coordinated person could shoot in the 70s. Now, that's easy to say when you're Ben Hogan, but nonetheless, he has a point -- this is a sport that can be played at the highest level by guys with recent heart transplants, bowls full of jelly, senior citizens, and torn ACLs. So why not in the 80's by Scooterguitar, right? Make it happen Scooter.
 
I have to put in a little something here. I don't care if you have all the talent in the world if you are playing equipment that doesn't fit you properly you will hit a point where this is as good as you can be in terms of ball striking with that equipment. If you want to see the scores really drop. Become a great short game player. It doesn't matter what you tell me if you can get up and down from inside 100 yards 7 out of 10 times you will see a huge improvement. Ball striking loses a ton of it's importance!!!
 
Scoot -

Take the time and have your S57's fitted for you. Here's several places in NW Ohio that can do it for you. Look especially hard at the ones with the doppler launch monitor (nFlight), they're amazing, and provide a ton of useful feedback for fitting, and learning.

http://pinggolf.com/dealerlocator/d...100&ctry=usa&nfl=&afs=&irn=&met=&put=&fac=bth

PING clubs are unique, in that they can be bent quite a bit more tha anyone elses cast offerings, you likely won't need to buy a new set, a master fitter should be able to tweak them for you in his shop. Whether or not he likes the shafts in them for you, is another thing altogether. You can hit any clubhead you want, but if the shaft doesn't fit you, you're never going to have any consistency.

There's a reason I don't carry an iron longer than a 5, I'm still learning a consistent swing that doesn't break down too.
 
Scoot -



PING clubs are unique, in that they can be bent quite a bit more tha anyone elses cast offerings, you likely won't need to buy a new set, a master fitter should be able to tweak them for you in his shop. Whether or not he likes the shafts in them for you, is another thing altogether. You can hit any clubhead you want, but if the shaft doesn't fit you, you're never going to have any consistency.

scotter, make sure you call Ping to verify this... this has been discussed before in other threads and I can attest to the difficulty with bending Ping irons. They'll likely have to be sent back to Ping

A GREAT clubmaker may be able to bend, but Ping charges $18 for 3-pw (plus shipping) so for $50 total, it just makes sense to know that the job will be done right and you will not have to run the risk of the iron snapping
 
http://www.pinggolf.com/uploadedFiles/About/ping_repair_form.pdf

http://www.pinggolf.com/about/clubrepair.aspx


Maximum Lie Angle Adjustability
Model Adjustability

KARSTEN I-IV none

EYE none

EYE2 (no dot in cavity toe) none

EYE2 (Copper) none

EYE2 (with dot in cavity toe) 2°

EYE2+ (built before 1990) none

EYE2+ (built on or after 1990) 2°

ZING (steel) none

ZING2 (Steel) 4°

ZING/ZING2 (Copper) 4°

ISI-S/ISI-K (Steel) 4°

ISI/ISI-N (Copper/Nickel) none

i3 Series 4°

i3+ Series 4°

G2 Series 4°

S59/S59 Tour 4°

PING/Tour Wedges 4°

Black Nickel Tour Wedges 2°

Rapture 4°
 
scotter, make sure you call Ping to verify this... this has been discussed before in other threads and I can attest to the difficulty with bending Ping irons. They'll likely have to be sent back to Ping

A GREAT clubmaker may be able to bend, but Ping charges $18 for 3-pw (plus shipping) so for $50 total, it just makes sense to know that the job will be done right and you will not have to run the risk of the iron snapping

Exactly.

That's why I suggested a PING master fitter. They're not just some goofball with a workbench, they have to go to Arizona and get certified by PING. You do pay more for their service, and it's worth it.

Think of it like taking your new hog to a certified Harley-Davidson mechanic. You don't have to send it to Milwaukee to get it serviced. :wink:
 
Exactly.

That's why I suggested a PING master fitter. They're not just some goofball with a workbench, they have to go to Arizona and get certified by PING. You do pay more for their service, and it's worth it.

Think of it like taking your new hog to a certified Harley-Davidson mechanic. You don't have to send it to Milwaukee to get it serviced. :wink:

regardless of where you take them they'll likely be sent back to Arizona... I think that dealer list is more for retail rather than repair
 
There are retailers, and fitters/clubmakers.

You'll have to ask which they are. There are only a few folks here in D/FW that are certified, I'm fortunate to know 2 of them. They'll both do anything in house, even order parts for repair (they'll order you a new club head, or shaft if you ask, and PING will send it right out to them due to their credentials)
 
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