Greatest basketball player of all time

Wake

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It's been discussed before, but the side conversation in thr Tiger thread made me think it's time for the conversation to have its own thread.

Who do you have as the greatest BBall player of all time. Some say Jordan, based on his ability to take over the finals. Some same LeBron, based on his overall ability. Some say Russell, based on defensive dominance and championships. Then you have other options like Wilt, Kareem, Bird, Magic and Duncan.

So who is your pick and why?
 
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Some call Duncan the GOAT? Really?

That’s a hot take...
 
Some call Duncan the GOAT? Really?

That’s a hot take...
I have actually heard it said, I was trying to name every player off the top of the head I had heard. But 19 straight playoff appearances and 5 championships, there are worse resumes out there.

Can't believe Kobe or Shaq didn't come to mind.
 
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I will go by position because I think it is tough to compare otherwise and that will lead to arguments.

PG Magic
SG Jordan
SF Lebron
PF Bird
C Abdul Jabaar or Shaq
 
With the question being greatest player I tend to look at all the apsects needed to be a complete player. In my mind Jordan, Lebron Magic and Kobe could shoot, pass,rebound, dribble, defend,win and play in a way that seperated them from others players in their era's. Without question Kareem and Wilt had amazing skillsets but I dont see them as complete players. Going back Oscar Robertson had all of these qualities as well but I did not see him play enough to offer much info.
 
How long until we turn the focus of this thread to Tiger and Jack?
 
without a doubt MJ is the greatest of all time. He did it at both ends and no-one had a killer drive more than he did. Also retiring twice in his prime... Ill say Lebron is the most god gifted talent wise, but lacks the drive and killer attitude to be the best (also I think he's a whiny cry baby and sabotages teams). And I know this wasn't part of the discussion but the rules have a lot to do with it also. If you put MJ in todays game (no defense, not allowed to hand check, breathing on somebody is a shooting foul) then Jordan would average 40 a game

Chamberlain was the most DOMINANT of all time but that as mainly cuz he was over 7ft playing mainly people barley 6'6". Bill Russell could usually keep Wilt in check when they played each other
 
MJ. People forget how suffocating of a defender he was. Best player at both ends of the court every single game. And a KILLER when it counted. No doubt they would have won 8 straight in my mind had he not gone and played two years of baseball.

It's never easy to have these debates across generations because the game changes so much. Watching highlights of Wilt was like watching highlights if Zion in high school; he just had a huge physical advantage.

Comsidering how many points a guy like Harden scores these days with sh** defense, it'd be crazy to watch Jordan each night.

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Not a big basketball fan anymore, but do have my take on this. I agree that MJ was the best all-time, definitely the GOAT in my book.

My all time favorite player was Magic, amazing point guard skills (best ever???) with the size of a power forward! He even lined up at center in the Finals!

Surprised no mention of Dr J, he truly elevated the game in his time, playing above the rim like no one had before him.
 
Chamberlain was the most DOMINANT of all time but that as mainly cuz he was over 7ft playing mainly people barley 6'6". Bill Russell could usually keep Wilt in check when they played each other


this is something that has been said so much it has become accepted truth. However, if one goes back and checks the statistics...Chamberlain could hardly be said to be kept in check by Russell. If 30 points and 28 rebounds a game is being held in check...I guess so. Also, average height of centers he faced was 6'10". I know the lines you used have been popularized, but they are highly inaccurate.

Like every other player, Chamberlain played the people in front of him under the rules in place. People talk about if Jordan played in todays game...refs from the time have admitted they allowed Chamberlain to be fouled because he was so much stronger and more skilled than others. Check out how much he benched at 59 years old...465, which is more than Shaq in his prime.

Chamberlain was no taller in relation to players of his age than many others...yet you did not see, for example, Yao Ming dominate the way Chamberlain did. Others have had more skilled footwork...despite my hatred of all things Rockets, Olajuwon was a thing of beauty with his dreamshake and variety of moves. You could also mention the Admiral. Yet they did not dominate the way Chamberlain did.


I can see and appreciate arguments for a couple other players and, having watched Jordan in my playing prime of course I would love to say the guy who destroyed my beloved Blazers was the best...the facts don't necessarily support that. Wrap the teams around Chamberlain that they did around a few others and theoretically he could have been the guy with 10 rings. But that is of course unprovable.

What is provable is, in relation to the people playing at the same time, Chamberlain did more against the competition than anyone else ever has. Yet the "greatest of all time" is not just statistics, it includes some unmeasurable things such as improving players around them, etc so these conversations always become subjective with each person taking their own view point.



Though I will openly laugh at anyone who calls Kobe or Magic or Bird the greatest. Great? yes. Greatest? uhm...no, that cannot be backed up even remotely.
 
In the NBA it's not even close it's MJ and then I would say Russell. I would take Russell over Chamberlin but I never saw either man play but Russell was a force on the defensive end.

LBJ isn't even in the Top 5 all time. He's a clown who jumped from town to town in order to get titles that along with Proclaiming yourself the Greatest ever is foolish. Love how his new team couldn't come within arms reach of the Playoffs even with the Self Proclaimed "Greatest ever".
 
His Airness

Why? He won a 3peat. QUIT the Sport. Then came back to win another 3peat.

Not even going to get into the amount of individual awards and stats he has.
 
I am 34 years old and I personally think Lebron is the best that I have seen.

I will never classify someone the greatest that I did not see or saw when I did not fully understand the game.
 
One reason why I love THP, very smart people on here! Ha!!! Jordan, it's not even a question.
 
Jordan.

Grab the popcorn.

Dustin Johnson may be the most physically talented golfer of all time, but he rarely comes into the GOAT discussion. I don't understand why we give the opposite treatment to LBJ. Plus, he's whiny and a borderline terrible representative of professional sport.
 
Jordan.

Grab the popcorn.

Dustin Johnson may be the most physically talented golfer of all time, but he rarely comes into the GOAT discussion. I don't understand why we give the opposite treatment to LBJ. Plus, he's whiny and a borderline terrible representative of professional sport.

LeBron isn't my pick either, and I don't care for his shenanigans. But I think calling him a terrible representative is a bit strong. When you have so many getting arrested, having affairs, battering other players, or overall being a crumby person, I think it makes his transgressions a bit easier to stomach.
 
without a doubt MJ is the greatest of all time. He did it at both ends and no-one had a killer drive more than he did. Also retiring twice in his prime... Ill say Lebron is the most god gifted talent wise, but lacks the drive and killer attitude to be the best (also I think he's a whiny cry baby and sabotages teams). And I know this wasn't part of the discussion but the rules have a lot to do with it also. If you put MJ in todays game (no defense, not allowed to hand check, breathing on somebody is a shooting foul) then Jordan would average 40 a game

Chamberlain was the most DOMINANT of all time but that as mainly cuz he was over 7ft playing mainly people barley 6'6". Bill Russell could usually keep Wilt in check when they played each other

For the record Wilt average just under 30 against Russell in the regular season and just under 26 in the Post Season. Russell around 14 points in both circumstances. Russell teams won far more oftern. Having lived through a lot of that time there were many 6'9 and taller players in the league during Wilts time. He was a better athlete. His track and volleyball records bare that out.
 
LeBron isn't my pick either, and I don't care for his shenanigans. But I think calling him a terrible representative is a bit strong. When you have so many getting arrested, having affairs, battering other players, or overall being a crumby person, I think it makes his transgressions a bit easier to stomach.

I said borderline. And yes, there are absolutely worse representatives.
 
For me it's Jordan and I don't feel like there's many close. He could flat out take over a game, on both end's of the court and put his team on his back and lead them to a W. There was no question of who the ball was going to at the end of the game, with it hanging in the balance. None of this pass it to Kyrie/DWade etc...
 
For me it's Jordan and I don't feel like there's many close. He could flat out take over a game, on both end's of the court and put his team on his back and lead them to a W. There was no question of who the ball was going to at the end of the game, with it hanging in the balance. None of this pass it to Kyrie/DWade etc...


uh...Kerr, Paxson, off top of my head beg to disagree. And to me that is part of the reason Jordan was as successful as he was. Instead of forcing up contested bricks, he would make the correct basketball play. Statistics bear out an open Kerr is more likely to score than a contested Jordan. Nobody in their right mind would put Kerr overall in the same league as Jordan skill-wise...but the correct basketball play was, is and will always be the open shot from a location a player is successful at. Jordan made those plays often and those two guys in particular made important playoff baskets to win games.

One reason Bryant is as far down the list as he is is because he didn't pass to the open guy. People remember him as clutch. People are wrong. the numbers show he sucked in crunch time. He was very good in other periods of the game which led to a lot of wins, but as a certified hater of all things Laker, I loved it when the Lakers had to have a bucket to win and gave it to him. I knew he would never pass and would usually miss.

Jordan, James, they both passed/pass to the open guy and made their teams better in those situations.
 
I got to see Wilt in his prime, several times. But he had no competition.
In modern NBA times, Kobe Bryant, due to his work ethic, and game attitude.
 
Jerry West was better than Magic, smarter too.


I will go by position because I think it is tough to compare otherwise and that will lead to arguments.

PG Magic
SG Jordan
SF Lebron
PF Bird
C Abdul Jabaar or Shaq
 
His Airness

Why? He won a 3peat. QUIT the Sport. Then came back to win another 3peat.

Not even going to get into the amount of individual awards and stats he has.

Bill Russell played for 13 years DIDN'T QUIT and won 11 including 8 in a row. Not too shabby.
 
uh...Kerr, Paxson, off top of my head beg to disagree. And to me that is part of the reason Jordan was as successful as he was. Instead of forcing up contested bricks, he would make the correct basketball play. Statistics bear out an open Kerr is more likely to score than a contested Jordan. Nobody in their right mind would put Kerr overall in the same league as Jordan skill-wise...but the correct basketball play was, is and will always be the open shot from a location a player is successful at. Jordan made those plays often and those two guys in particular made important playoff baskets to win games.

One reason Bryant is as far down the list as he is is because he didn't pass to the open guy. People remember him as clutch. People are wrong. the numbers show he sucked in crunch time. He was very good in other periods of the game which led to a lot of wins, but as a certified hater of all things Laker, I loved it when the Lakers had to have a bucket to win and gave it to him. I knew he would never pass and would usually miss.

Jordan, James, they both passed/pass to the open guy and made their teams better in those situations.

You did a much better job of explaining my reasoning than I could-- Jordan would create then dish to the open man. However he did the vast majority of the creating and when folks dropped to contest, he dished to the open man.

My opinion of Lebron, is a bit different. I was always of the opinion that he didn't want to take the shot, he didn't want the ball in his hands in those clutch moments. Maybe I'm clouded by a few instances in the Cavs championship run where Kyrie created on his own minus Lebron.....Maybe I'm off base on that aspect.
 
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