Callaway Epic Forged Irons

[aljaklaw]

True, but what possible motivation would any company have to deviate from that standard?

there is no standard. the USGA only measures for 48" conformity

imagine a top shaftmaker needing a conversion chart in their tour truck for the various OEMs

 

[radiman]

If I've stuck both shots well? It's pretty close.

Two things. After re-reading what I typed, I realized it came across argumentative, which was not my intent, so I apologize in that regard. Second, that's interesting and not something I have considered. I'll try to track down that video @McLovin referenced.

 

[Tenputt]

Look at the lofts though. 18* 4-iron? No thanks. Im all for loft jacking when it makes sense but this is crazy. You reach a certain point where loft gets so extreme that you lose spin and carry distance. You might say that less spin is fine because it will give you more distance and thats true in your driver but not in clubs like irons where you need the spin to get the ball to stop on the green.

I understand that the loft jacking debate will never end, but I will say that my very favorite club in my bag is my F9 4 iron and it is 19 degrees. It is every bit as easy to hit as any 6 iron I have ever gamed. I can easily launch it as a 215 to 220 approach club into greens. But, this thread is not about that club. My concern is not the long irons, because these companies are packing so much technology into the heads that a 4 iron loft that used to be a 2 iron is not a problem. My issue is what to do with the other end of the bag, when you have to score from 140 yards and in.

 

[HackerFish]

If you look at the exploded view of the club on the callaway website, you can see a noticeable thick spot on the top center of the back of the cup face. This feature appears on the apex cf19's but with different geometry. It also looks like the "AI generated" face of the epic flash driver, but again with different geometry.

IMO, callaway still doesn't have the perfect cup face geometry down yet. For this (and the cf19) they are obviously trying to get more consistent distance and spin numbers across the face. I would love to see their internal data on this. I guarantee they have a swing machine that hits the ball in a perfectly repeatable fashion and they move the impact point around on the face to see how launch angle, spin and ball speed change. Would love to see the REAL numbers instead of human generated ones where you are really just judging the person as much as the club.

 

[JohnSinVA]

Two things. After re-reading what I typed, I realized it came across argumentative, which was not my intent, so I apologize in that regard. Second, that's interesting and not something I have considered. I'll try to track down that video @McLovin referenced.

All good sir!

 

[Badger_Golfer]

But, if you look at some of the reviews so far, you see that peak heights and descent angles are actually on par with similarly stamped irons. Ian from TXG was hitting the Epic Forged the same height as his 6 iron even though it is much stronger in loft. I think the purpose of the strong lofts is to help reign in the flight. A necessity more than a distance selling point.

I completely disagree on left jacking being to reign in ball flight. It's nothing more than a pursuit for more distance to win the launch monitor war and sell more clubs.

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[McLovin]

I completely disagree on left jacking being to reign in ball flight. It's nothing more than a pursuit for more distance to win the launch monitor war and sell more clubs.

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honest question: why would callaway jack lofts to "sell more clubs" for a release that is priced at the smallest segment of golfers? if the goal was just to sell clubs, wouldn't they do this in a higher production unit with more appealing pricing?

the nice thing is, you can buy clubs with whatever lofts you want to. no one is forcing you to buy anything. callaway and many other companies offer clubs with wide ranges of specs.

 

[Tenputt]

honest question: why would callaway jack lofts to "sell more clubs" for a release that is priced at the smallest segment of golfers? if the goal was just to sell clubs, wouldn't they do this in a higher production unit with more appealing pricing?

the nice thing is, you can buy clubs with whatever lofts you want to. no one is forcing you to buy anything. callaway and many other companies offer clubs with wide ranges of specs.

Why do you make so much sense?

 

[Alez367]

I completely disagree on left jacking being to reign in ball flight. It's nothing more than a pursuit for more distance to win the launch monitor war and sell more clubs.

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I think your focusing on the wrong aspect of the design. Designs such face cup technology make the club face hotter which in turn makes the ball launch faster and higher which wouldn't be a problem if you like a more ballooning ball flight but that would never work for 95% of the golfing population. Instead you tweak the loft stronger to decrease the angle at which the ball rockets off the face so that you maintain a flight that pierces the wind but sustains enough lift to carry high enough to have a good descent angle as the ball approaches impact with ground. That's why it's such a hot topic on early reviews for these irons. Descent angles are still hitting numbers that will hold greens for golfers yet maintaining distances not previously seen with such static shafts lengths and lofts. At least thats how I understand it.

 

[Snickerdog]

I think your focusing on the wrong aspect of the design. Designs such face cup technology make the club face hotter which in turn makes the ball launch faster and higher which wouldn't be a problem if you like a more ballooning ball flight but that would never work for 95% of the golfing population. Instead you tweak the loft stronger to decrease the angle at which the ball rockets off the face so that you maintain a flight that pierces the wind but sustains enough lift to carry high enough to have a good descent angle as the ball approaches impact with ground. That's why it's such a hot topic on early reviews for these irons. Descent angles are still hitting numbers that will hold greens for golfers yet maintaining distances not previously seen with such static shafts lengths and lofts. At least thats how I understand it.

Good explanation Alex

 

[Hacker Rod]

honest question: why would callaway jack lofts to "sell more clubs" for a release that is priced at the smallest segment of golfers? if the goal was just to sell clubs, wouldn't they do this in a higher production unit with more appealing pricing?

They did ... with the Rogue X. And like these Epics, they compensated for the extra distance by adding a wedge. So as I said in an earlier post, the set composition is similar to other distance irons, these are just labeled one club weaker. Which is fine, I guess. At least Callaway addressed the gapping issue by adding a wedge.

 

[Phil75070]

I think your focusing on the wrong aspect of the design. Designs such face cup technology make the club face hotter which in turn makes the ball launch faster and higher which wouldn't be a problem if you like a more ballooning ball flight but that would never work for 95% of the golfing population. Instead you tweak the loft stronger to decrease the angle at which the ball rockets off the face so that you maintain a flight that pierces the wind but sustains enough lift to carry high enough to have a good descent angle as the ball approaches impact with ground. That's why it's such a hot topic on early reviews for these irons. Descent angles are still hitting numbers that will hold greens for golfers yet maintaining distances not previously seen with such static shafts lengths and lofts. At least thats how I understand it.

Another way an OEM could look at it is just the opposite. They want the longest irons for the given number so they "jack" the lofts. If that is all they did in pursuit of distance the ball would launch lower, fly lower and the clubs would be more difficult to hit. After all, the lower the loft on clubs the harder they are to hit for the typical golfer. So now they incorporate technology that compensates for the characteristics of jacked lofts while still increasing distance; they lower the COG, add face cup technology etc., to get a launch angle and ball flight that fits within an acceptable "window" for the number on the bottom of the iron.

I prefer to think your explanation and what Callaway told us at #TheGrandaddy when we were there is the reason for the stronger lofts, not the pursuit strictly of distance but distance being a byproduct of the technology they are utilizing in their irons.

 

[Alez367]

Another way an OEM could look at it is just the opposite. They want the longest irons for the given number so they "jack" the lofts. If that is all they did in pursuit of distance the ball would launch lower, fly lower and the clubs would be more difficult to hit. After all, the lower the loft on clubs the harder they are to hit for the typical golfer. So now they incorporate technology that compensates for the characteristics of jacked lofts while still increasing distance; they lower the COG, add face cup technology etc., to get a launch angle and ball flight that fits within an acceptable "window" for the number on the bottom of the iron.

I prefer to think your explanation and what Callaway told us at #TheGrandaddy when we were there is the reason for the stronger lofts, not the pursuit strictly of distance but distance being a byproduct of the technology they are utilizing in their irons.

based off my conversations regarding this exact design, what you mentioned in the bold section is 100% correct.

 

[aljaklaw]

They did ... with the Rogue X. And like these Epics, they compensated for the extra distance by adding a wedge. So as I said in an earlier post, the set composition is similar to other distance irons, these are just labeled one club weaker. Which is fine, I guess. At least Callaway addressed the gapping issue by adding a wedge.

3-PW or 4-GW or 5-AW you're still getting the same amount of clubs

"Our 6i goes farther than their 6i"

"Our 38" 24° club goes 115ft high and 200yds carry, unlike their 37.5" 28° club"

 

[Jman]

based off my conversations regarding this exact design, what you mentioned in the bold section is 100% correct.

As it’s always been, contrary to what the anti-de-loft army always says.

 

[clarkgriswold]

These are going to be at an upcoming demo day in few weeks along with the hybrids. I’m gonna try my best to get up there and try a few.

 

[Jman]

I want to hit them.

I’m not scared.

 

[Molten]

honest question: why would callaway jack lofts to "sell more clubs" for a release that is priced at the smallest segment of golfers? if the goal was just to sell clubs, wouldn't they do this in a higher production unit with more appealing pricing?

the nice thing is, you can buy clubs with whatever lofts you want to. no one is forcing you to buy anything. callaway and many other companies offer clubs with wide ranges of specs.

Logic is fun!

I want to hit them.

I’m not scared.

Ill raise you. I’m excited to hit them. These have been on the old noggin more than I’d like to admit recently.

 

[jim54]

Sitting here waiting for a connection home and these irons will be hit at some point.

Hoping maybe there will be a demo day somewhere in Orlando or tampa to hit them off grass.

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[Bryndom]

Really want to like these; it’s time for an iron uplift so planning on looking hard at these along with taylormade, mizuno, and srixon irons

 

[jim54]

Booked a demo for next Sat.

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[jjfcpa]

Would these be suitable for a senior golfer looking for more distance. If so, I'm in.

 

[Molten]

Would these be suitable for a senior golfer looking for more distance. If so, I'm in.

Dollars to donuts I bet they would be when properly fit.

 

[buckeyewalt]

I wonder if these could replace my CF16's...hmmmm?

 

[BigDill]

Callaway Epic Forged Irons

Would these be suitable for a senior golfer looking for more distance. If so, I'm in.

I could envision these with a set of 50g Catalysts and watch ‘um fly.