Lofts on modern clubs

[FreddieMac]

I have been researching clubs and wondering about the jacked up lofts. Right now I am playing Titleist DCI 981s and looking at the loft chart they are at least 4 degrees less than most of these modern clubs. I understand the loft is how most are getting distance, but the manufactures are claiming I can hit a 7 iron of 30 degrees loft and have it flight high and land soft. 30 degrees is 1 degree stronger than my current 6 iron. How is that not going to have a lower ball flight?

Is this claim legit or marketing hype? Looking at the difference between the T100 and T200 new Titleist irons is like looking at my DCIs and a new set of what is called game improvement irons.

 

[Canadan]

As tech improves, lofts need to change to accommodate it. If you can still achieve the same peak height, and land the ball softly on the greens, you're essentially getting longer distances with a club labeled in the same manner.

I think golfers would do well to look more at things like peak height, angle of descent, and spin as they try to find a set of irons that work for their bag. The technology era we are in is so beneficial for things like forgiveness, control, and distance, it would be a disservice to brilliant minds to limit the lofts to irons from 20 years ago.

 

[wubears71]

As tech improves, lofts need to change to accommodate it. If you can still achieve the same peak height, and land the ball softly on the greens, you're essentially getting longer distances with a club labeled in the same manner.

I think golfers would do well to look more at things like peak height, angle of descent, and spin as they try to find a set of irons that work for their bag. The technology era we are in is so beneficial for things like forgiveness, control, and distance, it would be a disservice to brilliant minds to limit the lofts to irons from 20 years ago.

Well said. It’s kind of like putting a V6 in a full size truck now. There are so many advances in technology that a V6 eco boost is an excellent option in F150s now.


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[Gyro25]

From my limited understanding, and I thiiiink I saw this in some golf tech videos, your 7i now launches like the 8 or 9i of years ago, so lofts are decreased to increase distance while launch is still optimal, and they get peak height and land just as higher lofted clubs did

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[mpeterson]

Dan’s suggestion is a good one. Focus on what the ball does, not what the static measurements of the clubs are. Gap on distances, not lofts.

 

[FreddieMac]

From my limited understanding, and I thiiiink I saw this in some golf tech videos, your 7i now launches like the 8 or 9i of years ago, so lofts are decreased to increase distance while launch is still optimal, and they get peak height and land just as higher lofted clubs did

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Is that a function of the material in the head or differences in shafts or both?

 

[Et Tu Brute?]

I have been researching clubs and wondering about the jacked up lofts. Right now I am playing Titleist DCI 981s and looking at the loft chart they are at least 4 degrees less than most of these modern clubs. I understand the loft is how most are getting distance, but the manufactures are claiming I can hit a 7 iron of 30 degrees loft and have it flight high and land soft. 30 degrees is 1 degree stronger than my current 6 iron. How is that not going to have a lower ball flight?

Is this claim legit or marketing hype? Looking at the difference between the T100 and T200 new Titleist irons is like looking at my DCIs and a new set of what is called game improvement irons.

A set of Titleist DCI 981 irons, straight off the shelf at your local golf shop way back when, had lofts ranging from 22 degrees (3-iron) to 47 degrees (PW).

A set of Titleist 718 AP1 irons, straight off the shelf at your local shop today, has lofts ranging from 21 degrees (4-iron) to 48 degrees (W).

It's the exact same set of lofts in an 8-club retail set. Hasn't varied more than a degree or two here or there for least as long as I've been playing golf. All that changes is the club numbering.

 

[Jman]

Is that a function of the material in the head or differences in shafts or both?

Head design more than shaft.

New materials, new ways to blend materials, more efficient designs, better weight manipulation, and the list goes on.

I know the internet hates to hear it, but in non blade/true-player-cavity irons the lofts HAD to get stronger, it was the only way to tune in the launch window.

Companies don’t put numbers on irons based on loft, it’s all about launch parameters.

 

[Et Tu Brute?]

The only way I know to even start comparing different sets of irons. Go stand on the 150 yard marker in the middle of the fairway and hit whatever iron in each set is a full swing for that distance. Then do the same for a 160-yard Par 3. Then again from 125 yards in the light rough. Whichever set makes it easier to get the ball close to the hole is the better choice.

Repeat that sort of thing a few times then go to the practice green and make sure you like chipping with the 8-iron through wedges.

Your winner should be obvious. If no obvious winner, go with the cheapest.

 

[fupresti]

A set of Titleist DCI 981 irons, straight off the shelf at your local golf shop way back when, had lofts ranging from 22 degrees (3-iron) to 47 degrees (PW).

A set of Titleist 718 AP1 irons, straight off the shelf at your local shop today, has lofts ranging from 21 degrees (4-iron) to 48 degrees (W).

It's the exact same set of lofts in an 8-club retail set. Hasn't varied more than a degree or two here or there for least as long as I've been playing golf. All that changes is the club numbering.

Not really. The launch characteristics of irons made in the 90s versus today are akin to oil and water. If you think the only thing that has changed is loft, have those 981 irons bent 4* strong and take em out for a round and let us know how easy this things are to control.

 

[Et Tu Brute?]

Not really. The launch characteristics of irons made in the 90s versus today are akin to oil and water. If you think the only thing that has changed is loft, have those 981 irons bent 4* strong and take em out for a round and let us know how easy this things are to control.

Yes, modern game-improvement irons are very different than game-improvement irons from 20+ years ago. Absolutely.

But the lofts are not different. At all. The lofts are the same as they have ever been, everything else (or just about everything) has changed.

The OP was asking if "jacked lofts" was an issue. It is not, there is no such thing.

 

[joebute]

I've compared my X Forged (2009) 6 iron to my Apex 7 iron. Both are 31 degrees. The X Forged carries a few yards farther, probably because it's .5" longer. Otherwise they fly pretty much the same. I like my Apex irons better than the old X Forged, but it really doesn't have anything to do with distances or lofts. You still have to gap them between your woods and wedges, which may mean dropping a 3i, or adding a gap wedge (or 2). Not a big deal in my opinion, as long as each club performs the way you want it to.

 

[DG_1234]

I have been researching clubs and wondering about the jacked up lofts. Right now I am playing Titleist DCI 981s and looking at the loft chart they are at least 4 degrees less than most of these modern clubs. I understand the loft is how most are getting distance, but the manufactures are claiming I can hit a 7 iron of 30 degrees loft and have it flight high and land soft. 30 degrees is 1 degree stronger than my current 6 iron. How is that not going to have a lower ball flight?

Is this claim legit or marketing hype? Looking at the difference between the T100 and T200 new Titleist irons is like looking at my DCIs and a new set of what is called game improvement irons.

Most of the "modern jacked up iron models" have longer shafts than traditional length irons. Any height trajectory gain is related as much to extra long shafts as it is head design.

 

[Jman]

Most of the "modern jacked up iron models" have longer shafts than traditional length irons. Any height trajectory gain is related as much to extra long shafts as it is head design.

This is incorrect.

 

[Et Tu Brute?]

Most of the "modern jacked up iron models" have longer shafts than traditional length irons. Any height trajectory gain is related as much to extra long shafts as it is head design.

Titleist DCI 981 Standard Retail Set

Longest Club 3-iron, 22 degrees, 38-3/4" length
Shorter Club PW, 47 degrees, 35-1/4" length

Titleist 718 AP1 Standard Retail Set

Longest Club 4-iron, 21 degrees, 38-1/2" length
Shorter Club W, 48 degrees, 35-1/2" length

The standard retail set of Titleist irons has gotten NO longer and NO stronger in at least 20 years. Why do people keep making up these things about "jacked lofts" and "longer shafts"?

 

[colorado_wade]

Yes, modern game-improvement irons are very different than game-improvement irons from 20+ years ago. Absolutely.

But the lofts are not different. At all. The lofts are the same as they have ever been, everything else (or just about everything) has changed.

The OP was asking if "jacked lofts" was an issue. It is not, there is no such thing.

The lofts absolutely have changed. Quite a bit actually. If you look at the loft chart of the Callaway Rogue X irons, the loft on the PW is 41. My old Taylormade r7's PW had a loft of 45, which was pretty standard. Many of these manufacturers have had to change the lofts almost a full club worth to keep the ball from ballooning way into the air with the rest of the technology in the head. But because of this, I wish they would all adopt the loft on the club, instead of an iron number, because those numbers are meaning less and less.

In fact, I would say that those numbers are negatively affecting a lot of peoples' games. When your standing 200 yards out with one your golf buddies, and you ask what they are hitting, and they say "my 6"...then you think crap, I was going to hit my 4...now I better at least hit my 5...and you come up 15 yards short...

 

[-CRW-]

This is incorrect.

Maybe not if you go back far enough. This is from Ben Hogan golf:

 

[Et Tu Brute?]

The lofts absolutely have changed. Quite a bit actually. If you look at the loft chart of the Callaway Rogue X irons, the loft on the PW is 41. My old Taylormade r7's PW had a loft of 45, which was pretty standard. Many of these manufacturers have had to change the lofts almost a full club worth to keep the ball from ballooning way into the air with the rest of the technology in the head. But because of this, I wish they would all adopt the loft on the club, instead of an iron number, because those numbers are meaning less and less.

In fact, I would say that those numbers are negatively affecting a lot of peoples' games. When your standing 200 yards out with one your golf buddies, and you ask what they are hitting, and they say "my 6"...then you think crap, I was going to hit my 4...now I better at least hit my 5...and you come up 15 yards short...

That set of clubs does not stop with a "PW" does it? The set I recently saw on the shelf in DSG was 4-AW with the AW being 46 degrees. Yes, that's strong, about as strong as any top-of-retail-set club I've seen. But it's not 41 degree or anywhere close to it.

This is also an option from some retailer for a 5-GW set that goes all the way up to 51 degrees.

But I see we're down the nitty gritty now. Your panties are in a twist because of comparing your "PW distance" to some other guy's "PW distance". Has nobody ever pointed out to you that choosing your clubs according to what some other guy hit is really, really dumb?

 

[Et Tu Brute?]

Maybe not if you go back far enough. This is from Ben Hogan golf:

Except again, the chart show a modern set with a "3-iron" that's a special order item and doesn't even show the 48+ degree wedge that comes with standard retail sets.

Do you people ever actually buy golf clubs? Do you not realize that NONE of the clubs in a retail store come in a "3-PW" set nowadays?

 

[Jman]

Maybe not if you go back far enough. This is from Ben Hogan golf:

His comment was any height or trajectory gain was as much shaft length as head, that is incorrect.

Never did I argue length hasn’t changed.

 

[colorado_wade]

That set of clubs does not stop with a "PW" does it? The set I recently saw on the shelf in DSG was 4-AW with the AW being 46 degrees. Yes, that's strong, about as strong as any top-of-retail-set club I've seen. But it's not 41 degree or anywhere close to it.

This is also an option from some retailer for a 5-GW set that goes all the way up to 51 degrees.

But I see we're down the nitty gritty now. Your panties are in a twist because of comparing your "PW distance" to some other guy's "PW distance". Has nobody ever pointed out to you that choosing your clubs according to what some other guy hit is really, really dumb?

I just used PW as an example. Every club in that set is 3.5 - 4 degrees de-lofted compared to the r7's I referenced. I was simply pointing out that lofts have in fact changed, and if you don't think that virtually everyone that has ever golfed has adjusted the club they are hitting at some point, based purely on what one of their buddies is hitting, then you are crazy.

 

[FreddieMac]

I am not sure what debate I have sparked with this but just look at the difference between the T100s and the T200s. The T100s are 3 degrees less than the T200 across the entire set. My current 7 iron is the equivalent of the T100. My brain tells me ok, I can hit a T200 7 iron further because of the loft, but Titlest, Callaway, Srixon, Mizuno, etc have sets like the T200 loft comparison and claim that they will land as soft as a butterfly with sore feet. Same flight characteristics of my current 7 iron with 5 degrees less loft. I gain distance and lose nothing on height or landing basically. I was basically asking for those playing modern clubs, is this truly the case?

 

[Et Tu Brute?]

I just used PW as an example. Every club in that set is 3.5 - 4 degrees de-lofted compared to the r7's I referenced. I was simply pointing out that lofts have in fact changed, and if you don't think that virtually everyone that has ever golfed has adjusted the club they are hitting at some point, based purely on what one of their buddies is hitting, then you are crazy.

It's no "de-lofted". It has a different number written on the sole.

They are selling the same set of lofts and lengths they always have (although that particular set is pushing it a degree or two on the lofts) and just putting different numbers on the clubs. The longest club in a 2019 set is about the same loft and length as the longest club in a 1999 set. It's just they used to put "3" on there and now they put "4".

Do you actually think there is some mathematical relationship between the number on the sole and how far the ball flies?

 

[Et Tu Brute?]

I am not sure what debate I have sparked with this but just look at the difference between the T100s and the T200s. The T100s are 3 degrees less than the T200 across the entire set. My current 7 iron is the equivalent of the T100. My brain tells me ok, that is why I can hit the club further, but Titlest, Callaway, Srixon, Mizuno have sets like the T200 loft comparison and claim that they will land as soft as a butterfly with sore feet. I was basically asking for those playing modern clubs, is this truly the case?

Compared to me hitting a 150-yard shot with a Titleist DCI 981 versus me hitting a 150-yard shot with a Titleist 718 AP1, yes there would be a big difference. The modern club would go higher and land softer and also give more consistent distances.

And yes, the old 150-yard club would have "5" on the bottom while the new one would have "6". But that has nothing to do with the performance of the club from the 150 marker.

 

[colorado_wade]

It's no "de-lofted". It has a different number written on the sole.

They are selling the same set of lofts and lengths they always have (although that particular set is pushing it a degree or two on the lofts) and just putting different numbers on the clubs. The longest club in a 2019 set is about the same loft and length as the longest club in a 1999 set. It's just they used to put "3" on there and now they put "4".

Do you actually think there is some mathematical relationship between the number on the sole and how far the ball flies?

I think we are saying the same thing. In my original response, I mentioned that they should all just start putting the loft on the club, because the iron number doesn't really have any real meaning anymore.

...truce