How Does Shaft Flex, Kick Point, Stiffness and Profile affect Ball flight.

[Johan185]

I notice distinct differences in the ball flight of my golf ball when I use different shafts. Both with the driver and Irons or Wedges.

These differences vary from company to company and shaft design and materials in their build.

It have been interesting comparing Graphite and Steel Shafts. Regular and Stiff versus Extra Stiff flex, but in all fairness these is no one standardize method to measure A shafts flex and swing profile characteristics.

Is it time that the consumers demand a standardized method to categorize Shafts? Graphite and/or Steel?

Or is everyone satisfied ordering a Stiff flex shaft, finding it not suitable to your game and ordering another, and yet another shaft, until finally you find the one that fits your needs.

All opinions welcomed.

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[scott.french3]

What you described is exactly why club fitting sessions are recommended.

 

[McLovin]

no i don’t think it’s time to standardize. namely because buying sight unseen is never the right decision. so standardizing is really only helpful for the blind purchase, which shouldn’t happen.


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[Johan185]

What you described is exactly why club fitting sessions are recommended.

But can you imagine how many customers pay for a fitting session and exit the building after ordering a set of clubs without any idea, clue or hint about what did they purchase.

True, they are shiny new golf clubs so most don't complain.

But most are also clueless.

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[Johan185]

no i don�t think it�s time to standardize. namely because buying sight unseen is never the right decision. so standardizing is really only helpful for the blind purchase, which shouldn�t happen.


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So a Doctor comes in. Looks at your chart, orders some test. Reviews the results. Schedules surgery and sends you home with a new scar.

But never explained who, what, when, where, or why you should buy this treatment.

Much less can you compare his recommendations to anyone else's, because each and every Doctor uses their own lab, Standards and procedures to determine what treatment are best for you.

That is what golf club fitting and buying feels like to the average customer.

Lots of hip terms, poorly defined standards and mislabeled and misleading information and equipment.

Lots of buyers remorse. And never improving scores. Because you are never sure you purchased exactly what you needed until after you play a few rounds and find out that the custom fit clubs don't fit.

And the advice to just get more lessons until your swing fits your clubs versus getting built a set of clubs that fit your swing is futile.

But the industry has spoken. And the Golfers of the world have accepted the results.

Bad scores and bad swings with beautiful, expensive gear, that doesn't fit your game no matter how much you spend.

Clarity in product specifications and accuracy in performance testing, will increase sales of superior products. And eliminate the junk pile of unwanted clubs in the back of everyone's garage.

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[Jman]

So a Doctor comes in. Looks at your chart, orders some test. Reviews the results. Schedules surgery and sends you home with a new scar.

But never explained who, what, when, where, or why you should buy this treatment.

Much less can you compare his recommendations to anyone else's, because each and every Doctor uses their own lab, Standards and procedures to determine what treatment are best for you.

That is what golf club fitting and buying feels like to the average customer.

Lots of hip terms, poorly defined standards and mislabeled and misleading information and equipment.

Lots of buyers remorse. And never improving scores. Because you are never sure you purchased exactly what you needed until after you play a few rounds and find out that the custom fit clubs don't fit.

And the advice to just get more lessons until your swing fits your clubs versus getting built a set of clubs that fit your swing is futile.

But the industry has spoken. And the Golfers of the world have accepted the results.

Bad scores and bad swings with beautiful, expensive gear, that doesn't fit your game no matter how much you spend.

Clarity in product specifications and accuracy in performance testing, will increase sales of superior products. And eliminate the junk pile of unwanted clubs in the back of everyone's garage.

Sent from my SM-G977U using Tapatalk

Of what benefit would it be for shaft companies to do this though? One tried, and though it’s still a fantastic method, no shaft company cares, or should care, about what another companies “”standard” is.

 

[McLovin]

So a Doctor comes in. Looks at your chart, orders some test. Reviews the results. Schedules surgery and sends you home with a new scar.

But never explained who, what, when, where, or why you should buy this treatment.

Much less can you compare his recommendations to anyone else's, because each and every Doctor uses their own lab, Standards and procedures to determine what treatment are best for you.

That is what golf club fitting and buying feels like to the average customer.

Lots of hip terms, poorly defined standards and mislabeled and misleading information and equipment.

Lots of buyers remorse. And never improving scores. Because you are never sure you purchased exactly what you needed until after you play a few rounds and find out that the custom fit clubs don't fit.

And the advice to just get more lessons until your swing fits your clubs versus getting built a set of clubs that fit your swing is futile.

But the industry has spoken. And the Golfers of the world have accepted the results.

Bad scores and bad swings with beautiful, expensive gear, that doesn't fit your game no matter how much you spend.

Clarity in product specifications and accuracy in performance testing, will increase sales of superior products. And eliminate the junk pile of unwanted clubs in the back of everyone's garage.

Sent from my SM-G977U using Tapatalk

the analogy doesn’t really work though. other than small outliers, your body will react the same way mine will react to the surgery and treatment.

but just because you and i are both low launch low spin players, it’s not all that likely we will both enjoy the same shaft designed for our characteristics because we may feel very different things in that shaft, and manipulate our swings differently. you can’t take the confounding element of the golfer’s adjustments out of the equation.

then to further confound it, head designs/weights vary so much, they could affect the performance of the same shaft very differently.


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[MrMom]

So a Doctor comes in. Looks at your chart, orders some test. Reviews the results. Schedules surgery and sends you home with a new scar.

But never explained who, what, when, where, or why you should buy this treatment.

Much less can you compare his recommendations to anyone else's, because each and every Doctor uses their own lab, Standards and procedures to determine what treatment are best for you.

That is what golf club fitting and buying feels like to the average customer.

Lots of hip terms, poorly defined standards and mislabeled and misleading information and equipment.

Lots of buyers remorse. And never improving scores. Because you are never sure you purchased exactly what you needed until after you play a few rounds and find out that the custom fit clubs don't fit.

And the advice to just get more lessons until your swing fits your clubs versus getting built a set of clubs that fit your swing is futile.

But the industry has spoken. And the Golfers of the world have accepted the results.

Bad scores and bad swings with beautiful, expensive gear, that doesn't fit your game no matter how much you spend.

Clarity in product specifications and accuracy in performance testing, will increase sales of superior products. And eliminate the junk pile of unwanted clubs in the back of everyone's garage.

Sent from my SM-G977U using Tapatalk

I've had several fittings in my time, and none of them went like this. I always knew what was happening and why, and I walked out with the best options for my game I could afford. If this is your honest experience of a fitting you should definitely go elsewhere next time!

 

[Johan185]

Of what benefit would it be for shaft companies to do this though? One tried, and though it’s still a fantastic method, no shaft company cares, or should care, about what another companies “”standard” is.

They have no benefit. This would only benefit the customers.

But my question was directed at us. The customer. Why haven't we demanded clarity.

When Consumer's Reports started testing cars and posting their reliability, most car companies ignore them. Thought that no one would take them seriously.

Now everyone wants to get a positive report from Consumer's. Car sales are directly affected.

We should demand better. We play with premium equipment. That is anything but cheap.

As a matter of fact, Callaway just introduced a brand new set of Irons. Valued at $2,500.00 a set.

That is a 2 week vacation to paradise for two adults.

Their should be an easy way to know that you are definitely getting your money's worth.

M2C

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[Johan185]

the analogy doesn�t really work though. other than small outliers, your body will react the same way mine will react to the surgery and treatment.

but just because you and i are both low launch low spin players, it�s not all that likely we will both enjoy the same shaft designed for our characteristics because we may feel very different things in that shaft, and manipulate our swings differently. you can�t take the confounding element of the golfer�s adjustments out of the equation.

then to further confound it, head designs/weights vary so much, they could affect the performance of the same shaft very differently.


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Sorry to be a outlier. But I am a licensed physician. And weekly we observe that no two patients react the same to the same treatment, drug dosage, medication, or surgical procedures.

But I do agree with your excellent point. That even if we both had similar issues with our game and ball flight, we would need different solutions applied to our equipment. For example, golf ball choice, equipment choice and any alternative option applied as needed, and shaft.

But unfortunately I have been custom fitted with good, bad and excellent results. And I can't even blame the fitter.

When they hand you a staff that is marked as having certain weight, kick point, flex and torque. You expect it to behave in a similar fashion to another shaft with a similar spec profile.

But when two similarly labeled shafts behave as completely differently as anyone can imagine, leading to confusion and poorly fitted clubs.

One can only ask. Why can't we get better equipment? We are paying top Dollars. We deserve top quality and built.

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[Alez367]

They have no benefit. This would only benefit the customers.

But my question was directed at us. The customer. Why haven't we demanded clarity.

When Consumer's Reports started testing cars and posting their reliability, most car companies ignore them. Thought that no one would take them seriously.

Now everyone wants to get a positive report from Consumer's. Car sales are directly affected.

We should demand better. We play with premium equipment. That is anything but cheap.

As a matter of fact, Callaway just introduced a brand new set of Irons. Valued at $2,500.00 a set.

That is a 2 week vacation to paradise for two adults.

Their should be an easy way to know that you are definitely getting your money's worth.

M2C

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I mean this in all honesty and sincerity, put your name in for small batch experience. This exact question was asked to DB during our open discussion period. He got very specific regarding other manufacturers as well as True Temper and Project X.

Personally in my experience from handcrafted event, making a standardized stiff or regular would actually be a disservice to consumers because that would take the options away from golfers. Less options is not a good thing.

 

[McLovin]

When they hand you a staff that is marked as having certain weight, kick point, flex and torque. You expect it to behave in a similar fashion to another shaft with a similar spec profile.

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but you shouldn’t. in the same way that two club heads with the same loft, weight and materials shouldn’t be expected to perform the exact same.

also, people shouldn’t diagnose themselves on webmd and then try to source their own medications. they should consult a professional.

i’ve been there too. frustrated by spending lots of money on something that should fit me, only to be disappointed. there is no substitute for professional help, and trying the options for yourself.


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[Alez367]

but you shouldn’t. in the same way that two club heads with the same loft, weight and materials shouldn’t be expected to perform the exact same.

also, people shouldn’t diagnose themselves on webmd and then try to source their own medications. they should consult a professional.

i’ve been there too. frustrated by spending lots of money on something that should fit me, only to be disappointed. there is no substitute for professional help, and trying the options for yourself.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

I’ll take this a little further and say you shouldn’t expect two brands to be the same because the two brands arrive at the same goal but use different materials and build processes to achieve that goal. Neither is more right or wrong over the other but given a certain golfers swing tendencies, one will fit better than the other.

 

[leftshot]

Of what benefit would it be for shaft companies to do this though? One tried, and though it’s still a fantastic method, no shaft company cares, or should care, about what another companies “”standard” is.

There are many benefits for the manufacturers and this has been proven time and time again in many industries. Standardization allows more companies to compete for business. If I can show you through standards that my product is equivalent (or in some cases better) than the product you are using, I might get the sale, or at least I have a shot. This happens both at the OEM and consumer level. Standards also engender confidence in the customer that they are getting what they paid for, it uplifts the perception of quality and credibility within the industry. At the same time, it makes it harder for unscrupulous competitors to enter or make inroads in the market. If they are dishonest about the specs of their products this can easily be uncovered and there is legal recourse.