Bad OTT, Overswing, suggestions?

Rictor33

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Trying to fix a bad swing that’s been too steep for too long. I’ve realized that I’ll never be consistent/decent unless I overhaul my swing. I swing a lot with my arms, overswing a lot, and come down with OTT/outside-to-in despite trying to shallow the club on the downswing. I’m big/immobile up top, so it’s not possible for me to have a one-plane, flat swing. Swing video below:

https://youtu.be/nVDGouq9SCs

Any suggestions to try to shallow the downswing? I’m trying and coming up disappointed more often then not. Been using some of Leadbetter’s “A swing” stuff.
 
There are way more qualified teachers than I am but if you are looking to flatten things out, starting with some depth could help.
 
Rictor33;n8881393 said:
Trying to fix a bad swing that’s been too steep for too long. I’ve realized that I’ll never be consistent/decent unless I overhaul my swing. I swing a lot with my arms, overswing a lot, and come down with OTT/outside-to-in despite trying to shallow the club on the downswing. I’m big/immobile up top, so it’s not possible for me to have a one-plane, flat swing. Swing video below:

https://youtu.be/nVDGouq9SCs

Any suggestions to try to shallow the downswing? I’m trying and coming up disappointed more often then not. Been using some of Leadbetter’s “A swing” stuff.

If you don't mind, please post a face on view of your swing.
 
The camera angle is a little off, but that club head is way outside your hands when the shaft is parallel to the ground at the start of your back swing. That makes it hard to do anything other than swing left and hit fades to slices or pulls if you slam the face shut. The club head can be outside of the hands at the positions I'm referencing, but should be much closer to the hands. Most tour pros are a little outside of the hands because its bad to be too inside as well and leads to the club getting "stuck" behind you, resulting in pushes/blocks or flip hooks. I'd start working on rotating the forearms a little more earlier in the back swing to get closer to the second position in this sequence of Tiger.

Tiger-Woods-swing-sequence-panel2.jpg

Think about drawing a line up the shaft through your body to make a plane. The club head should travel close to that path up the back swing right up to the point your wrists start to hinge (at which point the hands and club deviate from the plane). It's difficult to have a true one plane swing, so I suggest thinking of more of a "cone" that you want to keep your swing inside of. At the top of the swing, the club and hands/arms should be closer to your shoulder line - though there are plenty of pros that get really high arms, but who are able to flatten the club early on the downswing to get back into the "cone". Anywhere inside the "cone" should make playing golf a little easier than being outside of it. The "cone" I'm mentioning is the red and yellow reference lines below:

swingplaneanalyzed.jpg

The last piece to worry about is getting the club face angle to be close to the angle of your lead forearm or slightly closed to it at the top of the swing. It's visible in the 4th position in the sequence above. It looks like you are pretty close with this aspect in the video, but it's just another checkpoint worth mentioning when you start breaking down a swing.

It's helpful to do this in front of a full body mirror to check positions and see how they feel to you. In other words, what you think it should feel like to be in a certain position isn't always correct (feel vs. real).

Also, I don't think depth is too big of an issue for you. I think a lack of depth is an illusion in the video based on club position. Your hips and shoulders look turned enough at the top of the back swing to produce success. But the head on video DG requested could confirm depth based on where your arms are located in front of your torso in the first half of the back swing.
 
Will try to hit a simulator today (live/work in NYC) and will see if I can get something face on as well as behind. I'm trying the "A" swing to prevent myself from getting "too inside" on the backswing while also fixing my flying elbow/overswing/OTT.. It seems to be a good idea for someone with my body type and swing issues as well as lacking the flexibility for a one plane swing. I also do have a left elbow that does not fully straighten (football/lifting injuries)..
 
Towel under the right elbow. Simple, cheap, easy, effective. Your arms are flying away from your body. I've fought the exact same over the top move as well and the ole reliable towel under my back elbow fixed my arms from flying up and away from my body and forced me to really turn my shoulders.
 
Rictor33;n8881794 said:
Will try to hit a simulator today (live/work in NYC) and will see if I can get something face on as well as behind. I'm trying the "A" swing to prevent myself from getting "too inside" on the backswing while also fixing my flying elbow/overswing/OTT.. It seems to be a good idea for someone with my body type and swing issues as well as lacking the flexibility for a one plane swing. I also do have a left elbow that does not fully straighten (football/lifting injuries)..

The disappointment is probably a result of this "A" swing idea. There is a reason almost nobody that's really good at golf swings that way. Ledbetter thinks that people will magically reroute the club at the top, but as you can see from your own swing - that doesn't just happen (at least not naturally or as easily as he makes it sound). If you are intent on sticking with it, you can keep the club head more outside of your hands like you are doing. However, you have to figure out what it feels like to you/your mind to flatten the swing a lot at the top. To do so, you'll still have to rotate your forearms. Only, instead of doing it during the first part of the backswing like 99% of the golfing world, you'll have to do it at the top of the back swing. Look at this sequence from the extreme case of Matthew Wolff:

wolff.jpg?preset=large.socialmediaimage.jpg

The back of his hand goes from facing the ball at the top of his swing to facing more upward as he starts down. To do so, the forearms are rotating away from the ball as he starts the swing down. The problem here is the face wants to open and the club wants to fall behind you. At some point you'd have to start the club and face back toward the ball (after it's flattened out).

It just seems like a lot of work if it doesn't already come naturally to you. If you stick with it, I'd suggest maybe thinking about the cone I posted above. Only, with the "A" swing you want to be more on the yellow line going up, and then dropping to the red (shaft plane) line on the way down. You could stick an alignment stick in the ground behind you to reference the plane line you want to fall into on the downswing:

maxresdefault.jpg
 
Thanks for the detailed response, I appreciate the feedback. To be completely honest (it’s probably obvious to most of you) I’m just starting my “swing expedition” after basically playing with what “felt comfortable” with me (arms, OTT, overswing) for years. I have become more interested in playing more golf now that I’m in my upper 30’s. In the past I’d play maybe handful of times a year. I’m not stuck on the “A Swing”, but I will say that some of the ideas are sound. I think the towel trick will do me some good as well. I clearly don’t know how to not overswing.

Here is my swing head on:

https://youtu.be/4x8ELRd2kI8
 
I don’t think you are “over swinging” in either video. It’s okay for the shaft to be roughly parallel to the ground at the top of the back swing.

I still think most of your problems are from the start of the swing. I think if you stay on plane from the beginning you will have an easier time staying there (or close to it) throughout the rest of the swing. You do “flip” or release very early, but it may be a symptom of the other problems. It’s like a domino effect. I’d focus on the other parts of the swing first and see if that stops the flip.

Looking at the head on video, you could use more depth early on in your downswing. Most better players have the hands outside of their trail thigh when the shaft is parallel to the ground in the back swing. Here’s a sequence of Jason Day that shows that position:

Jason_Day_SS_02.jpg
 
Great information, thanks! I’ll try to play with some of these things and edit my backswing a bit to get it closer to plane. Shoulder and elbow problems (left side) make this a little uncomfortable, but I’ll see if I can find a happy medium.
 
I bet that maintaining flex in your right knee would help.
 
blugold;n8882755 said:
I bet that maintaining flex in your right knee would help.

I do tend to "stand up" and hit my irons thin very frequently. Good advice.

I really appreciate all of the suggestions.. Keep 'em coming :)
 
A modest suggestion from a complete non-expert. You seem to be starting your downswing with your arms. The downswing should start with a weight shift from the inside of your right foot to the left heel. Try practicing with a slight pause at the top (ala Matsuyama but less extreme) then shifting your weight before you start down. That will clear your hips and give you more room to swing from the inside to out instead of over the top. Good luck!
 
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