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Futility Of A Static Setup Mindset

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  • Futility Of A Static Setup Mindset

    Hi All

    Considering that there is forward shaft bend and clubhead droop going into impact , doesn't this mean that your setup and ball position must somehow match your dynamic swing?

    For example , lots of golf instruction say ball position 'this or that' in your stance depending on club and whether you want to hit a draw/fade/low /high trajectories , etc . But there is no way you can tell how much forward shaft bend or clubhead droop is going to occur in advance of your actual dynamic swing to meet your intent.

    The only way (imho) is to conduct full practice swings to a target or intermediate target, get a sense of the clubface orientation in space through the impact zone area and make a judgement of where the ball needs to be in that clubface path to meet your intent (ie. high/low/fade/draw, etc). Everything is really about judgement about how the clubface and ball will interact to achieve your desired task. And you can only improve by seeing the results and tweaking things so that your judgement of ball position (to fit your dynamic swing intent) becomes more precise.

    It seems a fallacy to habitually create a 'static' setup routine around some predefined ball position. It should be the other way around , put the ball in the way of your dynamic swing.

  • #2
    Forward shaft bend?
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    • #3
      Originally posted by Smallville View Post
      Forward shaft bend?
      Yes , its very surprising and counterintuitive but from 5-iron to Driver (for a full swing) , the shaft bends forward into impact while the clubhead droops.

      Check this out and look carefully at the shape of the shaft just before impact.



      Also , here is an email sent from Tom Wishon to Dave Tutelman (golf physicist).

      https://www.tutelman.com/golf/shafts...Spinetalk.html

      Look specifically at this extract of the email

      Twice in my past career I had the chance to borrow a high speed camera with which I have seen the "bending forward action of the shaft" for LATE release swings and the "shaft straight at impact" for early release swings. I've yet to see a situation in which the shaft is bending backward, what I call "shaft lagging".
      Going at it from the other direction with the able assistance of my engineering mentor of the past 13 yrs, it is simply not possible under
      normal swing and normal shaft flex situations for a shaft to arrive at impact flexed backward.
      Last edited by WILDTHING; 07-19-2019, 06:14 AM.

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      • #4
        The shaft flexes to catch up with the hand, if it is a super stiff shaft for your swing you will see the club head trail behind if you are releasing late. Also you are looking at a driver swing here, most people don't do a forward lean with a driver as they are trying to hit up on it. I do because I get a better feeling when releasing

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        • #5
          Originally posted by alexped2393 View Post
          The shaft flexes to catch up with the hand, if it is a super stiff shaft for your swing you will see the club head trail behind if you are releasing late. Also you are looking at a driver swing here, most people don't do a forward lean with a driver as they are trying to hit up on it. I do because I get a better feeling when releasing
          Its all detailed in the link below relating to some TruTemper tool called 'ShaftLab' which measured shaft bend and clubhead droop for PGA Pro swings. The tool got phased out in 2017 (just too expensive) but look at the 'Executive Summary' where it says:
          "At impact, just about every golfer has the shaft bent with clubhead lead (shaft bent forward) and toe droop."


          I suspect the above applies from 5 iron to Driver (the results are shown in this article- virtually all forward shaft bend and clubhead droop ) and may not apply to short irons.

          https://www.tutelman.com/golf/shafts/ShaftLab.php

          This is a complicated article :-(


          Example:
          What do we actually see when we plot the impact bend of a bunch of representative golfers? Here are the graphs for the nine pros whose Shaftlab profiles are in the 1999 package.

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          • #6
            Moved to training aid forum



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            • #7
              Originally posted by WILDTHING View Post
              Its all detailed in the link below relating to some TruTemper tool called 'ShaftLab' which measured shaft bend and clubhead droop for PGA Pro swings. The tool got phased out in 2017 (just too expensive) but look at the 'Executive Summary' where it says:
              "At impact, just about every golfer has the shaft bent with clubhead lead (shaft bent forward) and toe droop."


              I suspect the above applies from 5 iron to Driver (the results are shown in this article- virtually all forward shaft bend and clubhead droop ) and may not apply to short irons.

              https://www.tutelman.com/golf/shafts/ShaftLab.php

              This is a complicated article :-(


              Example:
              What do we actually see when we plot the impact bend of a bunch of representative golfers? Here are the graphs for the nine pros whose Shaftlab profiles are in the 1999 package.

              Clubhead lead surely means it is in front of the handle at impact?

              Anway, setup is a tool to help you get yourself in the correct position to execute the shot, not to copy impact position, otherwise we would all set up with our hips starting to point at the target and clear the hips

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              • #8
                Originally posted by alexped2393 View Post
                Clubhead lead surely means it is in front of the handle at impact?

                Anway, setup is a tool to help you get yourself in the correct position to execute the shot, not to copy impact position, otherwise we would all set up with our hips starting to point at the target and clear the hips
                Agree with this. I also think many golfers overthink things, I try to keep set up and my swing simple.
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                • #9
                  Originally posted by alexped2393 View Post
                  The shaft flexes to catch up with the hand, if it is a super stiff shaft for your swing you will see the club head trail behind if you are releasing late. Also you are looking at a driver swing here, most people don't do a forward lean with a driver as they are trying to hit up on it. I do because I get a better feeling when releasing
                  Actually the flex of a super stiff shaft (for a given swing) is less in magnitude but higher in frequency. There's no mechanism by which a stiff shaft hangs back when a flexible one would bend forward.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Et Tu Brute? View Post
                    Actually the flex of a super stiff shaft (for a given swing) is less in magnitude but higher in frequency. There's no mechanism by which a stiff shaft hangs back when a flexible one would bend forward.
                    In the very start of that gif the head is in front of the handle because the shaft is flexing ( that way not /\| any of those ways. SO in my head (very thick skulled on at that) if the shaft is stiffer then it has less chance to do ( and will come through like / causing the low right shot for a right handed golfer which does usually happen when the shaft is either too heavy or too stiff (or both) for that player.

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