Kuchar - Mayakoba Caddie Drama - Your Take?

I’ve been reading this thread with interest. My only reason for posting this is to lend another voice to the conversation. Read post number 11 from this link and note the date of the article.

https://www.golf.com/tour-and-news/...r-mayakoba-caddie-18-things-to-know-el-tucan/

What JB says above certainly makes sense, from a public perspective.

Yep, that's very interesting.

11. Asked if he made more money than Favela last week, Ortiz said, “I hope so!” He had not yet received or discussed his pay with Kuchar. He knows the standard caddie bonus is 10 percent of the winner’s share. Kuchar earned $1.3 million for his win, his first since 2014.
 
I'm kind of sick of Gillis sticking his nose in other people's business.

On this point, I have no problem with Kuchar negotiating a deal with El Tucan for a one week job. $5k for the week seems like pretty decent compensation, especially given the market (i.e., Mexico). I also don't think that El Tucan (or anyone else) should expect Kuchar to give him 10% just because he was on the bag that week. 10% makes much more sense when the caddie and player have a season-long relationship. Sometimes the caddie might not get anything if the player misses the cut (I assume, I don't know exactly how that works), and sometimes he'll get 10% of the first place purse. That is the reward for sticking with his guy through thick and thin.

I agree this is between Kuchar and the caddie. Gillis seems bitter and just grasping at issues to stay relevant .

As far as caddies goes, for most (not all) there’s a standard contract that pays a set amount per week/start and am agreed percentage for wins, top 5’s, Top 10’s, etc, are paid out on a siding scale based on player/caddie contract.
 
I’d take 5k for a week of carrying a single bag.
 
I’d take 5k for a week of carrying a single bag.

yep, but I will admit if my guy won 1.3m i might expect a little more, but honestly its not like Kuchar is a Monday qualifier, he is always on the short list of guys that can win any week, so you would think they would have an understanding before teeing off
 
yep, but I will admit if my guy won 1.3m i might expect a little more, but honestly its not like Kuchar is a Monday qualifier, he is always on the short list of guys that can win any week, so you would think they would have an understanding before teeing off

Back in my caddie days a member paid a caddie 5k for carrying his and his partners bag for member guest for 4 days. But that guy also made a lot more money per year than kucher did.
 
I'm kind of sick of Gillis sticking his nose in other people's business.

On this point, I have no problem with Kuchar negotiating a deal with El Tucan for a one week job. $5k for the week seems like pretty decent compensation, especially given the market (i.e., Mexico). I also don't think that El Tucan (or anyone else) should expect Kuchar to give him 10% just because he was on the bag that week. 10% makes much more sense when the caddie and player have a season-long relationship. Sometimes the caddie might not get anything if the player misses the cut (I assume, I don't know exactly how that works), and sometimes he'll get 10% of the first place purse. That is the reward for sticking with his guy through thick and thin.


I think a lot of people are forgetting that the minimum wage in Mexico is 63 cents per hour and a construction worker there makes less than $2 per hour. If Kuch paid him $5,000, a minimum wage worker would have to work 3.8 years to earn that. A professional Mexican worker in an expensive place like Mexico City with a college degree working in the tech industry makes only about $2,000 per month. And that is one of the highest paying jobs in Mexico. The same tech worker in San Jose California makes about $12,000 per month.
 
I think a lot of people are forgetting that the minimum wage in Mexico is 63 cents per hour and a construction worker there makes less than $2 per hour. If Kuch paid him $5,000, a minimum wage worker would have to work 3.8 years to earn that. A professional Mexican worker in an expensive place like Mexico City with a college degree working in the tech industry makes only about $2,000 per month. And that is one of the highest paying jobs in Mexico.

El Tucan said in that interview on golf.com that he tries to get a loop every day at Mayacoba, and if he does he'll get $200 that day. Even assuming he gets one 5 days straight, Kuchar paid him 5x him what he would have earned on his best week.
 
I agree this is between Kuchar and the caddie. Gillis seems bitter and just grasping at issues to stay relevant .

As far as caddies goes, for most (not all) there’s a standard contract that pays a set amount per week/start and am agreed percentage for wins, top 5’s, Top 10’s, etc, are paid out on a siding scale based on player/caddie contract.

No matter how much El Tuscan made it was a lot more than Tom Gillis’ caddie made this week.
 
I’d take 5k for a week of carrying a single bag.

Seriously... And for many in that country, that is a LOT of money.

I still don't think this should be a story. If he wanted more, he should have stipulated that he wanted a certain percentage of the winnings at the start of the process.
 
I can see a lot of reasons it would be better for the actual amount to not be known. Seems this guy is trying to get attention and should mind his own business, in my mind.
 
While it's bad taste to keep digging and out him, I guess I'm in the minority in that yeah, I'd think less of him if it's true.

I understand what others are saying, his payment relative to minimum wage, previous agreement, etc. But the reverse may perhaps reflect a person taking advantage of another's eagerness to accept less given their less than ideal economic standing in life.

To throw the guy $50k isn't a bead of sweat off his brow. I'd have given him more and I'm not nearly as nice a guy in reality as Kuchar seems to be. But, whatever... not my deal, it was between them.
 
I don't see why this should be an issue for anyone, let alone someone who had nothing to do with it in the first place but is now kicking up a fuss just to get attention

If Kuch and the caddie had an agreement in place then as long as Kuch paid him what he said he would then nobody can have any complaints in my opinion and that should be the end of it, regardless of how much Kuch won, whether that be $10K or $1M

Who is to say that Kuch hasn't given the caddie a bonus that neither of them are ever going to admit to due to personal reasons for the caddie? It doesn't matter where you are in the world, if you come into a lot of money you are going to get attention, some of it unwanted and unwarranted
 
Tom Gillis is a schmuck.

It’s clear he has an axe to grind and there’s no way in hell this is all about the caddy.
 
Tom Gillis is a schmuck.

It’s clear he has an axe to grind and there’s no way in hell this is all about the caddy.

Did more stuff come out? That was my initial take though
 
Did more stuff come out? That was my initial take though

Just the above that jstew posted from twitter with Tom talking about being in contact and getting him what he’s owed or whatever.

He (Tom) fits right in with the current mass media, polarize polarize polarize, no need to work for a real story when you can polarize and dramatize.
 
Just the above that jstew posted from twitter with Tom talking about being in contact and getting him what he’s owed or whatever.

He (Tom) fits right in with the current mass media, polarize polarize polarize, no need to work for a real story when you can polarize and dramatize.

And then how much is he going to want as his cut for getting the money.....?
 


and so it continues..

Kuchar won over $217,000,000 that week?
 


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Again.
 
The "shoulda" numbers on twitter are hilarious.
 
While it's bad taste to keep digging and out him, I guess I'm in the minority in that yeah, I'd think less of him if it's true.

I understand what others are saying, his payment relative to minimum wage, previous agreement, etc. But the reverse may perhaps reflect a person taking advantage of another's eagerness to accept less given their less than ideal economic standing in life.

To throw the guy $50k isn't a bead of sweat off his brow. I'd have given him more and I'm not nearly as nice a guy in reality as Kuchar seems to be. But, whatever... not my deal, it was between them.

The amount he tipped is not relative to anything. It was a stand in caddie (who based on what I am reading has some form of language barrier) who got paid more than what he was promised at the onset of the event.

We have NO idea how much of an impact he had on Kuchar during the tournament. Hell, for all we know, the guy pulling bags from his car at the hotel could have had more of an impact. There's just a ton of assuming, a ton of speculation, and zero reason to be involved in how someone perceives what a tip should be.

Would I have done differently? Who the hell knows. A million bucks is a million bucks.
 
The amount he tipped is not relative to anything. It was a stand in caddie (who based on what I am reading has some form of language barrier) who got paid more than what he was promised at the onset of the event.

We have NO idea how much of an impact he had on Kuchar during the tournament. Hell, for all we know, the guy pulling bags from his car at the hotel could have had more of an impact. There's just a ton of assuming, a ton of speculation, and zero reason to be involved in how someone perceives what a tip should be.

Would I have done differently? Who the hell knows. A million bucks is a million bucks.

We know that prior to Mayakoba it had been more than 4 years since Kuchar had won a tournament.
We know that Kuchar's career prize money winnings are more than $40 million, and that it's likely his career endorsement/appearance fee earnings are at least an additional $25 million.
Kuchar absolutely has the right to pay his caddie whatever he wants.
And fans of golf have the right to root and cheer for who they like.
All factors considered, including today's era of Tweets, Instagram "reporting" etc.... I think Kuchar and, or, his management, should have been aware that the unique story of "winning with a local caddie" would be of interest and, or, scrutinized.
Is it fair that pro athlete celebrity lives and behavior are put under a microscope and judged by the public ? It may not be fair but it's the way things are and I think a celebrity and, or, pro athlete should expect the attention.
 
It’s no different than two contractors working for the same company, doing the same job, and negotiated two different rates. Fair? Who knows. Real world? Yes. But sure, people love being upset about everything that has nothing to do with them. This is a transaction between two people, and I don’t believe I’ve seen anything come out that the caddie feels slighted unless I missed something. Seems their terms were agreed upon and fulfilled.
 
The amount he tipped is not relative to anything. It was a stand in caddie (who based on what I am reading has some form of language barrier) who got paid more than what he was promised at the onset of the event.

We have NO idea how much of an impact he had on Kuchar during the tournament. Hell, for all we know, the guy pulling bags from his car at the hotel could have had more of an impact. There's just a ton of assuming, a ton of speculation, and zero reason to be involved in how someone perceives what a tip should be.

Would I have done differently? Who the hell knows. A million bucks is a million bucks.
All understood. I didn't offer my opinion to make a point nor with any intention to dispute others' nor change their minds.

I'm just more of the mindset of positive effect beyond a mere business decision. Taking into account the economic factors there, he had the opportunity to truly impact a life as if winning the lottery. All an emotional assertion, and all me projecting my own values, I get that. It's just, my brain doesn't work that way when dealing with people. If I liked the guy even a little, 2.5%-5% would have been a given.

Heck, when the DirecTV guy came to do the install when I moved here, I liked him. Good family man. For 2 hours work, I gave him a $50 tip. Same for the guy that ran our fiber optic, the locksmith, plumber, etc.

If there's a good person involved who had been along for the ride when I won $1.3M, my thought would be to change a life rather than any previously agreed upon number.

Circling back around, these are all my projected convictions and I don't assume that anyone should agree with me. The question being, "would this change my impression of Kuchar?" the answer is yes, and this is why. Has it yet changed my opinion of the man? No because we don't know what is fact but as to the hypothetical, if true, it sure would.
 
So, if the person at TGI Friday's gets on social and says "Kuchar just won a million bucks and only tipped me 20 bucks on a 30 dollar meal wtf" are we still upset at him?
If Kuchar got 4th and won like 350k are people still upset at nearly double the payout for the caddie?

Where is the line drawn?
 
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