We've launched the new forums! Read more here

Kuchar - Mayakoba Caddie Drama - Your Take?

WMac19 said:
All understood. I didn't offer my opinion to make a point nor with any intention to dispute others' nor change their minds.

I'm just more of the mindset of positive effect beyond a mere business decision. Taking into account the economic factors there, he had the opportunity to truly impact a life as if winning the lottery. All an emotional assertion, and all me projecting my own values, I get that. It's just, my brain doesn't work that way when dealing with people. If I liked the guy even a little, 2.5%-5% would have been a given.

Heck, when the DirecTV guy came to do the install when I moved here, I liked him. Good family man. For 2 hours work, I gave him a $50 tip. Same for the guy that ran our fiber optic, the locksmith, plumber, etc.

If there's a good person involved who had been along for the ride when I won $1.3M, my thought would be to change a life rather than any previously agreed upon number.

Circling back around, these are all my projected convictions and I don't assume that anyone should agree with me. The question being, "would this change my impression of Kuchar?" the answer is yes, and this is why. Has it yet changed my opinion of the man? No because we don't know what is fact but as to the hypothetical, if true, it sure would.
Click to expand...

Kuch supports numerous charities. How do you know that money won't go to them and impact MANY lives?

Also, at what point does a percentage of something become insanity? Why does the great service at Applebee's only get a 20% tip of 7 dollars vs the service at super fancy steakhouse warrant a 20% tip of 50 dollars? None of that makes ANY sense to me, and I doubt I'm alone in it. Relying on a bill as a percentage is broken math. Handing someone you barely know and have a language barrier with an extra 2,000-3000 dollars for four days work is a CRAP ton of money in my books.
 
I’m also still kinda leery that the full story is being told. If he doesn’t want people knowing, and a REPORTER asks you to say the real number, all of a sudden that changes and you’re going to open up?
 
I don't understand the urge to debate opinion because you don't agree with others'.

But the server wasn't on the bag, did not participate in any capacity wrt the event in service of Kuchar. If he'd won less, I'd feel he should give more but certainly not as much if he'd won 1.3M.

What line and why is their a line at all? Do you or anyone expect to achieve consensus here?
 
WMac19 said:
I don't understand the urge to debate opinion because you don't agree with others'.

But the server wasn't on the bag, did not participate in any capacity wrt the event in service of Kuchar. If he'd won less, I'd feel he should give more but certainly not as much if he'd won 1.3M.

What line and why is their a line at all? Do you or anyone expect to achieve consensus here?
Click to expand...

Does there have to be an agreement or consensus to have a discussion?
 
WMac19 said:
I don't understand the urge to debate opinion because you don't agree with others'.

But the server wasn't on the bag, did not participate in any capacity wrt the event in service of Kuchar. If he'd won less, I'd feel he should give more but certainly not as much if he'd won 1.3M.

What line and why is their a line at all? Do you or anyone expect to achieve consensus here?
Click to expand...

There is no obligation to provide additional monies to a caddie. None. The way I perceive it, the big numbers given to player caddies are a reflection of their work over time, giving thanks for the absolute grind that reflects a long season.

I relate the other people serving Kuchar that week because I have no clue how much this guy did beyond dragging the bag around. If there's more info there I strongly encourage you to provide it so I can expand my understanding of the events leading up to the 2-3k tip for four days work.
 
Canadan said:
So, if the person at TGI Friday's gets on social and says "Kuchar just won a million bucks and only tipped me 20 bucks on a 30 dollar meal wtf" are we still upset at him?
If Kuchar got 4th and won like 350k are people still upset at nearly double the payout for the caddie?

Where is the line drawn?
Click to expand...

People have "different lines" ; it's a personal decision.
Over the years of my watching pro golf , when I've learned that a particular Tour player cheated, I stopped cheering and rooting for that player. Other fans of pro golf may continue to root for that player, either not caring about the cheating , or perhaps not believing it happened.
Paying the caddie this or that is a totally separate subject from breaking the Rules of Golf. My point is that people make up their own lines to form decisions and opinions about right versus wrong behavior.
 
Canadan said:
So, if the person at TGI Friday's gets on social and says "Kuchar just won a million bucks and only tipped me 20 bucks on a 30 dollar meal wtf" are we still upset at him?
If Kuchar got 4th and won like 350k are people still upset at nearly double the payout for the caddie?

Where is the line drawn?
Click to expand...

I guess that depends on the player, right? I mean Woods was notorious for being rather, how should we say it, crazy cheap, with tipping including, but it was defended as who cares.
And FWIW, I totally agree with you here.
 
DG_1234 said:
People have "different lines" ; it's a personal decision.
Over the years of my watching pro golf , when I've learned that a particular Tour player cheated, I stopped cheering and rooting for that player. Other fans of pro golf may continue to root for that player, either not caring about the cheating , or perhaps not believing it happened.
Paying the caddie this or that is a totally separate subject from breaking the Rules of Golf. My point is that people make up their own lines to form decisions and opinions about right versus wrong behavior.
Click to expand...

I guess I don't understand what cheating in golf has to do with this? You said it was a separate subject but you brought it into play here. Why?

How is it any of our business what a player pays the people AS A TIP not money owed?
 
Jman said:
Does there have to be an agreement or consensus to have a discussion?
Click to expand...

Wouldn’t be much to discuss then. Would just be one OP and a lot of “quoting for truth” responses. Discussion and discourse in general is fun as long as everyone stays civil and actually discusses the topic.
 
JB said:
I guess that depends on the player, right? I mean Woods was notorious for being rather, how should we say it, crazy cheap, with tipping including, but it was defended as who cares.
And FWIW, I totally agree with you here.
Click to expand...

I had Woods in mind as well - And he's got so much money he could burn Kuchar's bankroll.
 
So I just asked a tour player (on one of the major tours) how this would be handled. She said that she has had this exact scenario come up when her regular caddie was ill or when she changed caddies. They agreed up front, she over paid by a small amount because she did well, but never immediately jumped to the 10% or anything of the sort. Those large numbers are handled for work over time I was told, because in some ways it is making up for weeks in which there was little or none. Just simple thoughts from a different perspective.
 
JB said:
I guess that depends on the player, right? I mean Woods was notorious for being rather, how should we say it, crazy cheap, with tipping including, but it was defended as who cares.
And FWIW, I totally agree with you here.
Click to expand...

Tiger's legendary frugality is what came to mind when I first heard about this. I just wonder if this would've even come to light if he wasn't in contention at the Sony, and if it wouldn't have completely died down if he didn't go on to win. From my perspective as a PGA fan, the assumption they had an agreement in place beforehand seems reasonable, but I think they're the only two that know exactly what that agreement is. I don't find Kuchar particularly exciting, but this situation doesn't change my opinion on him one way or the other. And as far as '10% being the standard' goes, it seems like that's a standard for caddies that have been with a player for a period of time. The fact this situation still has legs is kind of funny because it's not like it was a blatantly egregious act. I guess people just need something to be outraged about.
 
Canadan said:
I guess I don't understand what cheating in golf has to do with this? You said it was a separate subject but you brought it into play here. Why?

How is it any of our business what a player pays the people AS A TIP not money owed?
Click to expand...

I mentioned cheating only because that is one criteria some golf fans may use, myself included, as a reason to not cheer or root for a particular player.
Other fans might not care about cheating but don't like it when a player swears or throws a temper tantrum , his press conference commentary , the product(s) he chooses to endorse etc... There are lots of different lines in the sand drawn, done for personal reasons.
What Kuchar pays his caddie is probably of little to no interest to most golf fans, but some may draw their own line in the sand and choose to no longer cheer or root for him.
 
gunga-galunga

I don't know the whole story, but $3,000 guaranteed is pretty solid considering Kuch could have missed the cut... I doubt he would have stiffed said caddie in that case.
 
Kuchar - Mayakoba Caddie Drama - Your Take?

Canadan said:
There is no obligation to provide additional monies to a caddie. None. The way I perceive it, the big numbers given to player caddies are a reflection of their work over time, giving thanks for the absolute grind that reflects a long season.

I relate the other people serving Kuchar that week because I have no clue how much this guy did beyond dragging the bag around. If there's more info there I strongly encourage you to provide it so I can expand my understanding of the events leading up to the 2-3k tip for four days work.
Click to expand...

I've never disputed any technical nor traditional agreement nor obligation to a caddie, I voiced an opinion.

Strongly encourage me to provide more information so you can expand your understanding? Artfully worded but this is only a debate on one side and even then, only if you make it so.

I don't dispute your opinion. For what mine is worth of that, I find your reasoning sound and very understandable. I feel no reason to offer anything more in order to validate my own.
 
JB said:
So I just asked a tour player (on one of the major tours) how this would be handled. She said that she has had this exact scenario come up when her regular caddie was ill or when she changed caddies. They agreed up front, she over paid by a small amount because she did well, but never immediately jumped to the 10% or anything of the sort. Those large numbers are handled for work over time I was told, because in some ways it is making up for weeks in which there was little or none. Just simple thoughts from a different perspective.
Click to expand...

Is the 10% thing fairly unspoken, or agreed upon by player and caddie as they begin an 'every week' relationship? Do you know / did she say?
 
Canadan said:
Is the 10% thing fairly unspoken, or agreed upon by player and caddie as they begin an 'every week' relationship? Do you know / did she say?
Click to expand...

She didnt say. Every player and caddie relationship is pretty different.
 
rallo said:
gunga-galunga

I don't know the whole story, but $3,000 guaranteed is pretty solid considering Kuch could have missed the cut... I doubt he would have stiffed said caddie in that case.
Click to expand...

Five dollars, guaranteed.

bagger-204.png
 
JB said:
So I just asked a tour player (on one of the major tours) how this would be handled. She said that she has had this exact scenario come up when her regular caddie was ill or when she changed caddies. They agreed up front, she over paid by a small amount because she did well, but never immediately jumped to the 10% or anything of the sort. Those large numbers are handled for work over time I was told, because in some ways it is making up for weeks in which there was little or none. Just simple thoughts from a different perspective.
Click to expand...

and correct me if i'm wrong, but that 10% often covers the out-of-pocket expenses the caddies have to pay. room, board, travel, etc. el tucan didn't have any of that.
 
Late to the party here but I agree $5000 is some nice coin for four days of work. However it could have been an amazing story to learn Kuchar gave him a life changing bonus after the win. Something I've considered is maybe he did pay more but it's being kept quiet so homeboy doesn't become a target. We have family that live in Guadalajara and even traditionally safe regions in Mexico ain't that safe right now.
 
Oh, hey, 5k.

And its still not a big deal to me. If they had an agreement, they had an agreement.
 
Unfortunate situation where no one looks good coming from it. Kuchar looks cheap and the caddy looks bitter. While I don't agree with what Kuchar paid after the win, it sounds like that is what they agreed to. Maybe not the bonus part, but weekly fee. If you look at it as he almost doubled his weekly fee due to the win. Not bad. I don't understand why he wouldn't accept the additional $15K that was offered later? Understand it may be less than what he thinks he deserves, but he's doing his family a disservice by not accepting.
 
BuckNasty said:
Looks like the caddie spoke out now.

https://www.golf.com/news/2019/02/1...ll-in-caddie-breaks-silence-over-pay-dispute/



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Now my take is that Kuchar should have paid (either at the conclusion of the tournament or now) the full $130,000 which is customary 10% for a win.
That said, Kuchar now offering $15,000 (in addition to the $5,000 he already paid) is something the caddie should have accepted. If the caddie needs money he should take the $15,000.
At this point both Kuchar and the caddie have damaged their reputations.
 
Jman said:
Oh, hey, 5k.

And its still not a big deal to me. If they had an agreement, they had an agreement.
Click to expand...

Exactly. Also, Canadan beat me to the punch on the Bagger joke.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top