Can the PGA tour be coed?

[Space Bandito]

Their courses are much shorter. I think the longest they play (this is me not really looking it up) is like 68-7000 yards. Average is around 6600. Their rough isn’t nearly as penal typically. The greens are slower and the pin placements not as extreme or diverse. Not to say they aren’t good. Obviously they are. But on a pga set up very few would perform well consistently. Even if they kept the length the same but mirrored the green complexes the women would have a very rough go at it.

But this is not suggesting to allow women to play on the PGA tour. It is suggesting adjusting the tour to combine both current tours. It's not a question of whether or not LPGA players can compete on the same course as the men.

 

[-CRW-]

Sorry, but no. Just, no...

There is no place for women in men's golf. Just like there is no place for men in women's golf.

 

[PapaJohick]

But this is not suggesting to allow women to play on the PGA tour. It is suggesting adjusting the tour to combine both current tours. It's not a question of whether or not LPGA players can compete on the same course as the men.

As others have mentioned, I would love a single event or two combing it a bit but there is no realistic way to set up a course for stroke play that wouldn’t make the women look terrible and thats not fair because they are amazing players.

 

[radiman]

I don't see the benefit of tricking up courses to force the men to play less clubs just for the sake of letting women hang with them. Maybe once in a while sure. But, by taking driver out of the hands you have essentially cut away 25% of their game just so the female can keep up? Why not tie one arm behind their back, or men have to play a restricted flight ball for the sake of "equality". They aren't equal. The men hit the ball further. They shouldn't be penalized for it for the sake of women's golf.

 

[JB]

My argument for this is to stop playing super long courses. It's the first sentence of the 2nd paragraph. Avg. LPGA tour length is 6600 yards, avg. PGA tour length is 7200. So if you made the avg. 6800 or so, and made it not overtake-able, length shouldn't be an issue.

They say their average is 6600, but in reality it plays shorter than that most weeks...By a lot.

 

[Popeye]

I think a team event would be great several times a year. Pair them up and use a combined score or some other format.
As for all the time I wouldnt want to see that. There are a ton of way to make it equitable with different tees but I enjoy seeing the guys go at it.

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[fuffle master]

My argument for this is to stop playing super long courses. It's the first sentence of the 2nd paragraph. Avg. LPGA tour length is 6600 yards, avg. PGA tour length is 7200. So if you made the avg. 6800 or so, and made it not overtake-able, length shouldn't be an issue.

I understand that thought, but I still proclaim the men’s distance is too much to overcome. You would have to have all hole with very specific setups to not allow the long hitters to just reach the green on the drive. And, if the men don’t reach the green they still are so much longer that hitting a 9 iron into the green versus the women hitting a 6 iron. The men would have such an advantage with their scoring irons.



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[Space Bandito]

I understand that thought, but I still proclaim the men’s distance is too much to overcome. You would have to have all hole with very specific setups to not allow the long hitters to just reach the green on the drive. And, if the men don’t reach the green they still are so much longer that hitting a 9 iron into the green versus the women hitting a 6 iron. The men would have such an advantage with their scoring irons.



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I totally agree with the scoring advantage aspect.

 

[manhattan01]

Not the same sport but in the winter Olympics, they introduced co-ed two player curling and I thought it was pretty cool. I could see an Olympic event where you have a male/female team golf event. I'd tune in.

 

[Space Bandito]

Not the same sport but in the winter Olympics, they introduced co-ed two player curling and I thought it was pretty cool. I could see an Olympic event where you have a male/female team golf event. I'd tune in.

That would be cool. I'm starting to see a pattern here wherein people would like to see it, potentially, for team events. What about match play?

 

[manhattan01]

That would be cool. I'm starting to see a pattern here wherein people would like to see it, potentially, for team events. What about match play?

Mixed match play would be so great. As a Canadian, Brooke Henderson & Corey Conners! That would be fun.

 

[ArmyGolf]

I just can't see any course set-up that allows the women to hang with the men from the same yardage. LPGA setups are light years shorter and easier than PGA setups in almost every way, in fact they are even shorter than almost any Pro setup all the way down to small-time mini-tour setups.

That said, I think a once/year exhibition with 1 man and 1 woman per team, using a combined stroke play format would be fun. I'd tune in.

 

[DG_1234]

I've been thinking about this for a while, and before you give a resounding no, hear me out.

If the PGA tour were to dial back their tournament courses to <7000 yards, and play more parkland style courses with forced layups and dog legs, rather than moving to more and more ridiculously long tracks in an effort to prevent certain players from simply over powering, I think it could possibly level the playing field for men and women to play together.

e.g. on a 450 yard par 4, it's 275 to the end of the fairway before a hazard of sharp dog leg. Minjee Lee can hit a driver if she wants (265.764 yards avg) where as Rory Mcilroy maybe hits a 3 iron. At the end of the day they both have roughly 175 to the green. The course style prevents the long hitters from over powering the tee shot, and going driver/wedge on every hole where some of the ladies may be hitting driver/7 iron.

Some of the benefits in this scenario seem to far outweigh the encumbrance:

1. The LPGA gets a heck of a lot more of the spotlight (this is huge in my book)
2. Companies can stop selling "distance." If driving the ball 350 yards is no longer important on tour, R&D can focus on the finesse aspect of the game
3. No more talk about dialing back the golf ball. It just wouldn't be necessary if you're not overpowering the course.
4. Great, shorter, courses that have been taken out of the rotation over the years can make a come back.
5. No more of this garbage bifurcation talk. If courses on tour play similarly to the course we play at home, we all get to play the game the way it suits us best using the same equipment and tech.


So what do you think? I know there's more to it, but let's start a discussion here.


Bonus talking point* is it something you want to see?

First, I don't believe the PGA Tour (or golf in general) has any problem at all with courses being too short and, or, a need to "dial back the golf ball". If equipment has made courses play shorter and scores are lower, so what ? I don't understand why people object to a player shooting 58, 59, 60 etc... It's just a score. What difference does it make if -10 won an event 30 years ago and today -22 wins that same event ? It's just score, Wedge into a green instead of 7-iron is only a problem if people want to make it a problem.
As for coed pro golf, from 1960 to 2000, a forty year period, JCPenney sponsored a mixed team event with teams of PGA-LPGA players. It had o.k. interest from fans, nothing especially great.

 

[Space Bandito]

First, I don't believe the PGA Tour (or golf in general) has any problem at all with courses being too short and, or, a need to "dial back the golf ball". If equipment has made courses play shorter and scores are lower, so what ? I don't understand why people object to a player shooting 58, 59, 60 etc... It's just a score. What difference does it make if -10 won an event 30 years ago and today -22 wins that same event ? It's just score, Wedge into a green instead of 7-iron is only a problem if people want to make it a problem.
As for coed pro golf, from 1960 to 2000, a forty year period, JCPenney sponsored a mixed team event with teams of PGA-LPGA players. It had o.k. interest from fans, nothing especially great.

Your scoring rant aside, during the jc Penney thing, was there a big push to grow the game?

Posted by my thumbs.

 

[Molten]

I’d love to see this type of thing become a thing once a year. I’m sure it would draw if some names from both tours participate.

 

[mikeg_74]

I think the cat is out of the bag where "distance" is concerned and you are not packaging that one back up. The average golfer is in love with distance and hitting it far which is why many will forgo lessons when searching for what ills their golf games. OEM's know this and I think are actively trying to make the game of golf easier and more fun, while creating product that provides more distance for the average golfer.

I think a couple of times a year I would like to see a team event where LPGA and PGA are paired together. This imo would garner more interest in viewership and sponsors than telling the men their drivers are obsolete because they are playing shorter courses.

 

[Phil75070]

Why have them compete against each other? I’d be interested to see both tours playing the same course at the same time from different tee boxes in their own tournament. Groups of the men and women alternating. Of course, that does reduce the size of the field for each tour.


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[DG_1234]

Your scoring rant aside, during the jc Penney thing, was there a big push to grow the game?

Posted by my thumbs.

Was the theme of your original post that a male-female tournament would help "grow the game"?
I can't say I know for sure what the original idea was , back in 1960, for the JC Penny event. My guess is that JC Penney and , or, the PGA-LPGA thought the tournament format would be a good fit for a department store company sponsorship.
At this point I believe the PGA Tour is suffering from lack of event ticket sales and especially from declining t.v. viewership. And other Tours such as Champions, Korn-Ferry-LPGA do much worse, with little to no galleries or t.v. viewing audience.
So, your idea of a combined PGA-LPGA event is probably a good idea, worth a shot, with nothing to lose.. For it to happen I believe one of the regular PGA Tour stops would have to be willing to change their field's composition to include women. The January event in the Palm Springs area might be a good fit for this idea, as that tournament has been suffering a steady decline of player and fan interest, and might benefit from a change to male-female tournament field.

 

[JB]

Was the theme of your original post that a male-female tournament would help "grow the game"?
I can't say I know for sure what the original idea was , back in 1960, for the JC Penny event. My guess is that JC Penney and , or, the PGA-LPGA thought the tournament format would be a good fit for a department store company sponsorship.
At this point I believe the PGA Tour is suffering from lack of event ticket sales and especially from declining t.v. viewership. And other Tours such as Champions, Korn-Ferry-LPGA do much worse, with little to no galleries or t.v. viewing audience.
So, your idea of a combined PGA-LPGA event is probably a good idea, worth a shot, with nothing to lose.. For it to happen I believe one of the regular PGA Tour stops would have to be willing to change their field's composition to include women. The January event in the Palm Springs area might be a good fit for this idea, as that tournament has been suffering a steady decline of player and fan interest, and might benefit from a change to male-female tournament field.

Ratings and ticket sales have been quite strong this year on the PGA Tour and year over year it’s up.

 

[Space Bandito]

Why have them compete against each other? I’d be interested to see both tours playing the same course at the same time from different tee boxes in their own tournament. Groups of the men and women alternating. Of course, that does reduce the size of the field for each tour.


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This is a really interesting concept.

 

[PapaJohick]

Why have them compete against each other? I’d be interested to see both tours playing the same course at the same time from different tee boxes in their own tournament. Groups of the men and women alternating. Of course, that does reduce the size of the field for each tour.


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Now this would be a pretty tournament. Not sure it would help the men’s side but I feel like it would help bring more people out for the women. I would think the proceeds would be up a good bit for the lpga if they split it right down the middle

 

[Phil75070]

I’d be interested to see both tours playing the same course at the same time from different tee boxes in their own tournament.

I think the really interesting point for me would be immediately seeing the contrast in playing styles and course management from different sets of tee boxes.

 

[dthogey]

I'd be up for a once or twice a year. I would vote for allowing the women to play a shorter distance to allow similar length approach shots.

 

[tahoebum]

The difference is sand save percentage (the top 10 in the category, for each respective tour) is 3.26% Hardly a deterring factor.

The average PGA tour player is about 52% on sand save and the average LPGA player is about 43%. The 60th ranked LPGA Tour player has 30 putts per round while the 60th ranked PGA tour player is at 28.7. Both are big differences.

 

[Badger_Golfer]

Im sure they could make it work. Like a lot of other people are saying, just move the tees up for the women. They question is: would people watch it? I personally wouldnt because I enjoy watching both the PGA and LPGA tours and I would watch it but a lot of of people dont care about womens' sports and probably wouldnt watch it and would think it was kind of a joke.