Same for me, but solo rounds I leave it in. It’s not a pace of play thing, but it’s one less thing to worry about if that makes sense
What's Happening? Flagstick In or Out?
Same for me, but solo rounds I leave it in. It’s not a pace of play thing, but it’s one less thing to worry about if that makes sense
- Admin
- #52
Haha yes it does I do the same thing on solo rounds, mainly because I’m not usually worried about my score.
Is it a want, or an indifference? I don’t think I have played yet with someone who really wants it to be left in, it’s more of a we all don’t care so it gets left in. I have played rounds where people want it pulled so that’s what we do. I honestly couldn’t care less either way, which it feels like is the majority.
If the flag would have been tended on first or even 2nd putt on a hole it is just left in. Then that first guy either taps in with the flag in or marks but is right there to pull the flag or leave it in as desired by the next guy. Once out it stays out.
If you are someone who focuses on the back of the cup it definitely looks bigger than the front and leaving it in does seem to make the hole look smaller.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
If you are someone who focuses on the back of the cup it definitely looks bigger than the front and leaving it in does seem to make the hole look smaller.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
myspinonit
Active member
I'm a senior, probably set in my ways, a quick player, and I'm pretty much taking it out now. I've tried in, but it's a mental thing. I find the pin is distracting to me and to focusing on the correct line, and the hole just looks smaller to me. In short my focus and confidence seem better when it's out. To each his/her own.
I do think is it probably is detrimental to many with the breaks in concentration with the stops to get it pulled, or put back in. Especially players who are well-intentioned but who ask if a player wants it in or out etc. just as the guy is lining up a putt.
I've found it best to say at the beginning of around now that "my default is to have it out" that seems to both speed up the process and keep the flow going. If it's not a matchplay situation, I sometimes will ask a player who is not "away" (closer than me) if he prefers to go ahead if he's one who prefers the pin in.
I do think is it probably is detrimental to many with the breaks in concentration with the stops to get it pulled, or put back in. Especially players who are well-intentioned but who ask if a player wants it in or out etc. just as the guy is lining up a putt.
I've found it best to say at the beginning of around now that "my default is to have it out" that seems to both speed up the process and keep the flow going. If it's not a matchplay situation, I sometimes will ask a player who is not "away" (closer than me) if he prefers to go ahead if he's one who prefers the pin in.
Last edited:
rollin
"Just playin golf pally"
- Joined
- Aug 28, 2012
- Messages
- 12,622
- Reaction score
- 1,113
- Location
- planet earth, milky way galaxy
- Handicap
- 15.7
I am finding it odd that its much more the ones who want it out that are getting the cooperation from those who would rather it be left alone vs the other way. Several times now Ive had just one of four insist they want it out while the other three would rather just leave it be (or an occasion 2 of 4) and yet for some reason whatever the count is it always comes out. Ive seen no one yet (even if just one person) cooperate with the others who would rather leave it be. Ive seen a couple people try for a couple holes but even them eventually they start pulling it or ask to have it pulled.
rollin
"Just playin golf pally"
- Joined
- Aug 28, 2012
- Messages
- 12,622
- Reaction score
- 1,113
- Location
- planet earth, milky way galaxy
- Handicap
- 15.7
The biggest problem I see is that its a choice. Having it a choice is imo a problem.
As for whether or not leaving it in actually helps pace. I think it does. It imo creates an easier going flow to play around and on the greens. How much time savings is it? I don't think anyone can place a real number on that and don't really think we will ever truly know. There are of course other issues to slow play than simply dealing with the pin. But (and I know I keep saying this) it does allow things to flow better when no has to deal with it at all. Everyone can just go to their balls and play ready golf and no ever has to be taken away from their own ball business. Whoeve wuld been tending to the flag will now have that bit of time spent eyeing up their play and be ready that much more easily.
Ive mentioned this in the past as well.. Hypothetically if we always left the flags in and never pulled it but now a new rule caused us all to have to pull it, Id bet my left arm most all of us would be complaining as we realize jst what a pain in the butt it is. We are just so darn use to dealing with tending and pulling that we don't consioder it a disruption but if things were the always the other way we would now see how it actually is.
That’s what most in my group (including me) are doing....outside 10 feet leaving in. Inside 10 pulling it out.
I would only be in favor of always leaving the flagstick in if the "stick" itself were made thinner at its base as it goes in the hole, and secondly only if there were a way to guarantee the flagstick was perfectly vertical in all cases, on a slope, with the wind, etc. everyone wanting to leave it in all the time works until the first person has one leaning toward them. Then it becomes more disruptive if now the next person insists he wants it in. It seems to work really well for us that it is in until the 1st person wants it out (usually for putts within 10-15 ft or shorter, and then it stays out.
rollin
"Just playin golf pally"
- Joined
- Aug 28, 2012
- Messages
- 12,622
- Reaction score
- 1,113
- Location
- planet earth, milky way galaxy
- Handicap
- 15.7
I can see having a thin rigid yet strong enough pole bottom being very possible to do. And would likely eliminate most of this debate.
Et Tu Brute?
Well-known member
The guys I know who pull it out would be bothered by anything different than what they're used to. It wouldn't matter if it were 1/8" diameter and made of clear plastic. As one of them said, "Just knowing it's there messes me up".
All of this will resolve itself in a year or two. Eventually 99% of the take-it-out cohort will bow to peer pressure and go along with the norm. And they'll find, like the rest of us already have, that it makes no actual physical difference at all. All mental.
I have yet to play in a foursome where everyone wants it in for all length putts. Almost everyone leaves it in for the putts over 20 feet and then when the first person taps in, the flag generally comes out and stays out. I’ve logged 31 rounds with about 25 different golfers and only one of those really wants it in for all putts but at least a dozen of those guys want it out for the short ones. From my observation, the lower the index the more likely they don’t want the flag in for putts under 15 feet.
I’ve been keeping track of putts or long chips that were approaching the hole at “make” speed that have been kicked out. I’ve had 4 so far this year that likely would have gone in had the flagstick been pulled. I’ve had zero that went in because they were aided by the flagstick. Not a big deal - that’s only about one stroke every 8 rounds.
I’ve been keeping track of putts or long chips that were approaching the hole at “make” speed that have been kicked out. I’ve had 4 so far this year that likely would have gone in had the flagstick been pulled. I’ve had zero that went in because they were aided by the flagstick. Not a big deal - that’s only about one stroke every 8 rounds.
pilot25
Active member
I hate the flag in. If I'm playing with others that want it in I compromise and leave it in for long putts and take it out for 10' and in.
If the USGA wants play to speed up then they need to encourage people to stop looking for a lost balls for more than 1 minute. Stop lining up 3 foot putts. Play ready golf. If you know where your ball is get out of the cart, with your club, and let the other golfer go to their ball. Don't drive back and forth. Don't sit there and watch your buddy hit while you can be moving toward your ball. If the cart has GPS to the pin you don't need to use your laser device "to make sure its accurate." You aren't good enough for it to make a difference. You also aren't good enough to play from the tips. In 5 years I've seen 3 people good enough to play from the back tees. If you can't drive the ball 300 yards then you aren't tip material. They should rank the tee boxes by handicap instead of "men's, ladies, senior, etc.."
Lastly, put your stupid phone away. You aren't important enough to need to look at it in the course of 4ish hours.
Rant off. I hate the flag in and will never "bow to peer pressure" as Et Tu puts it. It doesn't speed up play at all. It was a foolish USGA ruling to speed up play to make up for inconsiderate golfers who think they need to replicate what they see from Tour players. If I see one more person chewing gum I'm going to lose it.
If the USGA wants play to speed up then they need to encourage people to stop looking for a lost balls for more than 1 minute. Stop lining up 3 foot putts. Play ready golf. If you know where your ball is get out of the cart, with your club, and let the other golfer go to their ball. Don't drive back and forth. Don't sit there and watch your buddy hit while you can be moving toward your ball. If the cart has GPS to the pin you don't need to use your laser device "to make sure its accurate." You aren't good enough for it to make a difference. You also aren't good enough to play from the tips. In 5 years I've seen 3 people good enough to play from the back tees. If you can't drive the ball 300 yards then you aren't tip material. They should rank the tee boxes by handicap instead of "men's, ladies, senior, etc.."
Lastly, put your stupid phone away. You aren't important enough to need to look at it in the course of 4ish hours.
Rant off. I hate the flag in and will never "bow to peer pressure" as Et Tu puts it. It doesn't speed up play at all. It was a foolish USGA ruling to speed up play to make up for inconsiderate golfers who think they need to replicate what they see from Tour players. If I see one more person chewing gum I'm going to lose it.
rollin
"Just playin golf pally"
- Joined
- Aug 28, 2012
- Messages
- 12,622
- Reaction score
- 1,113
- Location
- planet earth, milky way galaxy
- Handicap
- 15.7
yes its certainly only a mental thing for some players I understand. But like most anything that changes its just a matter of getting use to it. If it were something they had no choice and had to get use to it, I am confident it wouldnt take all that long for it to become a norm.
Et Tu Brute?
Well-known member
It's been a little less than six months. I'll bet back in January it was darned near 50/50 wanting it out vs. in among the guys I play with. Within weeks it was a much smaller proportion wanting it out. And a couple more have quit asking for it out since then.
And it isn't like anyone gives them a hard time about it. At least when I'm around I've never heard anyone complain about taking it out. It's just they gradually quit bothering to do it when nobody else in the foursome does.
rollin
"Just playin golf pally"
- Joined
- Aug 28, 2012
- Messages
- 12,622
- Reaction score
- 1,113
- Location
- planet earth, milky way galaxy
- Handicap
- 15.7
Yes we all understand there are a number of reasons for slow play. And I agree ready golf (or lack of) is certainly one of the keys to better pace. And leaving the pin be (not having to bother with it at all) is indeed one small way of helping the group play ready golf a little smoother. It is actually part of that ready golf ideology and so regardless how minor you think it may be it does count towards that very same ideology. And when we consider just how minute (if any at all) it actually affects our scores and handicaps one way or the other. its pretty much a no brainer. Or at least will be soon as some of the players simply get use to it.
You want to justify pulling it as not counting anything at all towards a pace because you need to have it pulled. But at the same time you mention ready golf as something of importance. Anytime someone has to man or go pull, or pull then replace, or pull for someone to chip, then replace for the other person to chip, or go get the flag and have to hop lines to do it, then hop lines to go lay it down somewhere, etc,etc...the scenarios can go on and on. Most every time anyone has to deal with that it takes away from that person readying himself. It also causes (even if very small) a wait for the group as the person deals with it. No matter how anyone tries to slice it as being meaningless, the dealing with the pins has always been a disruption to the flow of things vs when not having to bother with it at all. The only reason it doesnt feel like it is, is because its something we are all so very used to doing. As ive mentioned...If it were something we never ever did and only now had to start dealing with it, we'd all be like WTF this is a pain in the butt and would see it as something of a detriment to the flow of things and ready golf when on and around the greens. So it does count imo to help with one the very things you ranted about. Its not meaningless just because someone feels they need it out. With due respect, the logic of dismissing or minimizing just how small of a disruption to flow and ready golf it is, is a bit self serving. But then again so is everything when it comes to pace and ready golf.
Et Tu Brute?
Well-known member
If I'm going to be on the golf course for four hours, I need a phone or something to occupy my time for the 2-1/2 hours I'm not playing golf!
What's happening? This happened and now I pull the pin within 20 foot or so. @Canadan posted this in a different thread.
rollin
"Just playin golf pally"
- Joined
- Aug 28, 2012
- Messages
- 12,622
- Reaction score
- 1,113
- Location
- planet earth, milky way galaxy
- Handicap
- 15.7
and i suppose that takes place about 7 times per round, raised your cap to 20 and the times it might help you only happens once in twenty rounds right?
- Joined
- Aug 4, 2010
- Messages
- 19,618
- Reaction score
- 4,085
- Location
- Liberty Lake, Washington
- Handicap
- GHIN 7.1
I hate it when the flag is in when putting and I won't do it unless it's a severe (and I mean SEVERE) downhill putt.
I know the science says the flag helps, but I just can't do it.
I know the science says the flag helps, but I just can't do it.
pilot25
Active member
I agree pulling and replacing is a waste of time and is costly in the course of a round. However, that goes back to ready golf. If you are on the green and ready to putt while someone else is practicing or thinking about their pitch then putt. If you are over 10ish feet you aren't making the putt anyway. Putt away with the pin in. Then after the pitch golfer goes then pull the pin. First person to putt out picks up the pin. This is the major problem. Pick up the stupid thing after you putt. Its pure laziness. Leaving the pin in is pure laziness. The USGA is enabling laziness. Play 2 rounds with at least 1 other person and use a stopwatch each time you are on the green with the pin in and then one round with it in and out by following the rules of ready golf. If the difference is more than a minute I'd be shocked.
pilot25
Active member
alexped2393
Member
No, because some like me just don't like the look of the flag being in the hole, we don't like it moving in the wind, its one more thing to worry about when putting. I think it's way better now for longer putts as it's never a question to take it out or tended as you are half a mile away so just leave it in and if you putt decently then if people are close enough and they want to pull it they will.
alexped2393
Member
it's just one more thing to worry about. I'm bad enough at putting as it is to take into account what the flagstick is made out of!
Et Tu Brute?
Well-known member
There is a YouTube video out there to prove everything from the world being flat to toast always landing jelly side down.