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What's Happening? Flagstick In or Out?

rollin said:
hence part of the problem. We can watch countless video of similar shots hitting the pin and going in or how about hitting hard and still going in or staying very close vs running away.
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I wouldn't call it a problem... I also wouldn't expect dudes to pull the flag from 70 yards either haha

Just thought it was really funny. I watched it live and laughed because it's perfect for this thread. That thing was IN!
 
I actually believe (against my liking) the rule will be reversed and go back to always pulling. mostly because the pin is going to get too much blame. Someone can get helped 3 times and hurt once but its the once they are going to remember. Plus no one can ever blame and empty hole. No one will ever say "if the pin was there i would have sunk that". reason being is because we can only blame what is in existence. Its always gonna be much more of the "you see i told you it hurts" and very little the other way even if it helped the person more. So leaving the flag in is going to lose out either way and fall victim to far more blame than the other way around.
 
Canadan said:
I wouldn't call it a problem... I also wouldn't expect dudes to pull the flag from 70 yards either haha

Just thought it was really funny. I watched it live and laughed because it's perfect for this thread. That thing was IN!
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but that actually is part of the problem. Thats what people focus on when it comes to this and they easily forget the times the pin saved them from these types of shots.
 
Played my first round Saturday where not everyone could agree on flag in/out and were opinionated about it. It was excruciating. This rule needs to go regardless of what the physics says....
 
I think for those insisting that the flag should always be in and in the interests of smooth flow and faster pace of play, they should, as their own committee, decide that any ball that hits the flagstick counts as if it went in. :micdrop:

Our foursome, 2nd tee time, played the full 18 holes in exactly 2:46 this morning, leaving it in for longer putts and getting pulled when the next putt is within 15 feet or so. Then it stays out. We play ready golf everywhere BUT on the green and our rounds are always less than 3 hours unless someone has to look for lost balls or it is CPO. Hitting a shot closer to the pin gives one the advantage of seeing up to three other putts, helping judge speed and break. More putts made or ending closer to the hole saves time, too! Why give up that advantage if you are playing at a great/decent pace, keeping in position with the group(s) in front of you, and, as the USGA Handicap Manual states:

".............each player will try to make the best score at every hole in every round[/B]......"
 
JayB said:
Played my first round Saturday where not everyone could agree on flag in/out and were opinionated about it. It was excruciating. This rule needs to go regardless of what the physics says....
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Everybody else will soon be as tired as you are of arguing about it. Then they'll settle down and just play golf.

Gonna be a long, hot summer though.
 
We have been leaving it in more and more and I think I am getting more used to it. One complaint: we need thinner flagsticks or some with the ball scooper like on the putting green. I am seeing the edges of holes getting beat up from people trying to fish their ball out if the cup with the flag in.


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Canadan said:
Someone... you mean a PhD in Mechanical Engineering / professor at Cal Poly....

This isn't some 60 year old dude with a bone to pick at ABC municipal drinking a Coors light and slapping balls at a pin.
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Clearly it must be the service being YouTube and not the actual video or the person behind it.
Maybe he should have used Vimeo?
 
Phil75070 said:
I think for those insisting that the flag should always be in and in the interests of smooth flow and faster pace of play, they should, as their own committee, decide that any ball that hits the flagstick counts as if it went in. :micdrop:

Our foursome, 2nd tee time, played the full 18 holes in exactly 2:46 this morning, leaving it in for longer putts and getting pulled when the next putt is within 15 feet or so. Then it stays out. We play ready golf everywhere BUT on the green and our rounds are always less than 3 hours unless someone has to look for lost balls or it is CPO. Hitting a shot closer to the pin gives one the advantage of seeing up to three other putts, helping judge speed and break. More putts made or ending closer to the hole saves time, too! Why give up that advantage if you are playing at a great/decent pace, keeping in position with the group(s) in front of you, and, as the USGA Handicap Manual states:

".............each player will try to make the best score at every hole in every round[/B]......"
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i think it should be the other way around. Those insisting it come out because they are so concerned they are losing so many strokes should be allowed to count any ball that hits the pin and doesn't go in as one that is made. This way they (LOL) dont have to pick up the mic and complain they missed it because of the pin.

For me its not really such a pace thing per say like as if its the cause of places bad pace problems but just imo makes for a bit easier going not having to bother with it. Just imo a tad more pleasant and more ready golf enabled by only dealing with your own next plays. Hence i use the term a smoother flow to things. Which does for whatever amount its worth, help pace to some small extent.
 
Et Tu Brute? said:
And depending on how attached you are to those feelings, you may well be still pulling the flag five years from now when you're the 1-in-50 golfers still doing it. But it's also possible that at some point you'll lose touch with those lifelong habits and settling in a new routine of leaving it in.

In any case, it's not something I think anyone should be bothered about if one guy in the group wants to pull it out. And the groups I play with all seem to feel the same, whatever someone feels comfortable with is fine as long as it doesn't turn into a protracted in-and-out-and-in-and-out all day long (like when one foursome has a "got to pull it" guy and a "must leave it" guy and they both want to play honors putting). And in that case it's more the honors putting thing that's causing the problem IMO.
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Golfers mimic what the pros do and the pros are mostly pulling it inside of 15 feet so I’m not worried about being in the minority on pulling the flag anytime soon. The vast majority of golfers that I’ve played with this season have wanted it pulled or don’t care if it is pulled for shorter putts. I’ve only run into one golfer that wanted it in for short putts.

Interesting observation for me this season - every low index player wants the flag out for shorter putts, it’s only the bogey golfers that likely won’t hit the hole anyway that insist in keeping the stick in.
 
After yesterday's round I can conclusively say one thing about leaving the flagstick in. Its effect on putts left one to three inches short of the hole is negligible. Not a single one of those putts was sucked forward and into the hole by the stick, I went 0 for 5.
 
Flatstick didn't bother this one

 
I am seeing a bit of a reversion. For quite some time the majority of people I golfed with were leaving it in. Recently I am seeing more and more people wanting it out. The vast majority of people are "I will go with whatever everyone else does" but there are more groups where one or more people want it out so seeing that again.
 
I had my first experience with one of our playing partners wanting the pin in while everyone else preferred out. I would say it was probably only 50% of the time that he would request it to be put back in but it was a pain and definitely added a little extra time. He was pretty good about trying to putt first if he could do we wouldn't have to put it back in but that wasn't always possible. It wasn't the worst thing I've had to deal with but it was annoying at some points.
 
Having played now about 20 rounds this year I can honestly say I still don't like the flag in on anything under 10'. Longer putts I'm ok with though. I think my favorite thing about the rule changesis when the group in front of me leaves it in and I can laser it while they are putting haha
 
jdtox said:
Having played now about 20 rounds this year I can honestly say I still don't like the flag in on anything under 10'. Longer putts I'm ok with though. I think my favorite thing about the rule changesis when the group in front of me leaves it in and I can laser it while they are putting haha
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I'm still at about 20 feet or more, especially during casual rounds.

My speed is usually pretty good though, so deflection isn't my biggest concern from that kind of distance.
 
jdtox said:
Having played now about 20 rounds this year I can honestly say I still don't like the flag in on anything under 10'. Longer putts I'm ok with though. I think my favorite thing about the rule changesis when the group in front of me leaves it in and I can laser it while they are putting haha
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lmao I love that part of it too!
 
Canadan said:
I'm still at about 20 feet or more, especially during casual rounds.

My speed is usually pretty good though, so deflection isn't my biggest concern from that kind of distance.
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All of my rounds are pretty casual haha. I have had a couple deflect when the put wasn't dead center, plus I like the sound on the rare occasion I make a putt. I can tell you when I have a putt I really want to make and I walk around the other side to look at it I need that pin out too.
 
jdtox said:
All of my rounds are pretty casual haha. I have had a couple deflect when the put wasn't dead center, plus I like the sound on the rare occasion I make a putt. I can tell you when I have a putt I really want to make and I walk around the other side to look at it I need that pin out too.
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"rare" occasion.... Ugh, whatever.

You're a stud, flag in or flag out.
 
Only twice has the flag screwed me out of sinking a putt.

After awhile of this I'm pretty much taking the pin out on short putts. Last thing I need is to hit the middle of the stick and it kicks out stupidly. Short putts probably inside 7-8 feet.
 
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