What's Happening? Flagstick In or Out?

I can go both ways.


...wait that didn't sound right.
 
I putt with the flag in all of the time including very short putts and it has improved my putting hugely. It has improved both my line and my pace of putt. With the pin in on short putts it gives me a smaller target to focus on rather than the whole hole. Also I aim to hit the flag which psychologically makes me hit the putt a little harder, no more short putts left short. In the six months I've been leaving the pin in I've yet to have a bounce out that I feel would otherwise have gone in.
 
I've come to the conclusion that I love this rule, not only has it helped my putting but most agree and leave it in 100%, which has made the game faster on the greens, less fuss with the stick is a good thing.

Some still feel it should come out for some putts though, which is a small problem but not too bad, I do kind of laugh inside when they miss though, because they probably make the putt with it in.
 
Didn't even think twice about it, when I walked to the pin my last round out, I just looked at their distances and figured if they want it in they will ask to keep it. None of us said a word all round, and we played pretty quick even with letting a twosome through and taking a quick break for food at the turn, never held anyone up and finished in 4:10.
 
i got bit by the stick again yesterday. i left my birdie putt embarrassingly short, but the par putt was perfectly on line. i gave it a smidgey more speed, but it wasn't too hard. hit the dead center of the stick, karomed off, and finished a few inches BEHIND the hole. i'm still not sure how the physics worked on that one.
 
I left it in during my birdie putt on 9 on Friday night.

Perfect speed, would have undoubtedly gone in without the pin. Hits it a fraction off dead center right while breaking towards the hole, bounces off pin, then off lip, then jumps to the other side of the hole hahahahaha

There's just no way.
 
If it was tended in the past it stays in or if it is a long putt from the first person to putt they might say to just leave it in. Then, other than a tap in after a great lag putt, despite disrupting the "flow" of the game, it comes out and then stays out. No one has asked that it be replaced for their putt.
 
15' or less I am putting to an empty hole...the hole looks much BIGGER to my eye when it is empty..."buckets."
 
I have played with it in every round so far. No issues so far.

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I've been leaving it in as much as possible. I'll pull it on short putts if the wind is waving it around or if the shadow is in my line.

It probably sped up our groups play slightly, but we still had to wait most of the day for the slowpokes in front of us.
 
playing most as a single Im beginning to play with a bit more and more folks who leave it in. The consensus from most these folks seems to be that they simply like the idea of not having to bother with it. I know ive said it so often but now that time has passed and Im finding others also mentioning it,...it does seem to get more and more realization from folks that things just flow more smoothly when its left alone and everyone can just tend to their own play. .

I have sen putts hit and leave the hole and have seen putts get saved. I think (as i always have) .....regards whether one believes it helps more than hurts or hurts more than helps......the difference in the amount of times it does either is so minimal and when you consider (no matter which way you believe) that there are still times it works the other way too, that all even makes the whole thing even that much more minimal. And of course there are the times the pin helps without knowing it and you dont record that in the mind. Only recall the ones we think were hurt. And even that is not known technically because we just dont know for certain what would have happened since the pin wasnt out.

There is more to gain in flow and tempo of playing out the holes than there every is as for how often it may hurt or help anyone where as it would ever affect ones cap to anything measurable. More people in my experience who leave it be are liking alot to just not bother with dealing with the thing and just play thier golf. Finding it just makes things a bit easier going. Im also finding some folks (sort of like me) getting just a tad bothered by those who must pull it.

As for it affecting me ? I am a die on the hole type of putter and im either in or I miss the cup so i havnt experienced any hurt or help either way. even when windy Ive yet to find any issue. And i relly like seeing the stick I feel it helps me visualize a line especially on short putts. I find im more center on the hole now. And if I need to aim left or right of conter without giving the cup away I find it also helps better visualize that too. Even the shadow of the pole imo can help line up things too.
 
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You know how when Tour players miss a putt they will often angrily pound the ground where some (perhaps imaginary) spike mark caused the miss?

Blaming "the pin" for missed putts is the hacker's new equivalent to that Tour player behavior. Any time you miss a putt that at some point touched the flagstick, you just tell yourself it 100% certainly would have been in if not for the flagstick.
 
I have been putting with it in mostly. I like it for longer putts as a reference to the hole. I think I have only had one putt where it bounced off the pin, in that case I think even out it would have gone over the hole.
 
Time for an update... As I originally said, for inside of 10-15' feet or so, I like it out. For me, the hole appears smaller with the stick in. As I play mostly as a single, this has worked out pretty good when I get paired up. It usually comes up on the first green and so far, nobody's been a real Richard about it. It seems to be a good compromise, especially on larger greens if we aren't all near the hole or are chipping on from inside another's ball. Nobody is walking around trying to figure who wants it in. It stays in until we've all had our first go at lagging up, then it comes out. And nobody, and I mean NOBODY, has ever said they wanted it in on their 3 footer to finish up.

As I also mentioned originally- IF the put is inside 20' and severely downhill or it will come off a slope after a large break and gain speed toward the hole, then I will elect to leave it in... mostly.
 
Flag in or out is still NOT making a difference in my putting. I managed to have three 360 lip outs on Saturday's round with the flag in... Ugh
 
I still think many folks are making too big a deal of it being left in. Similar to "ryg" couple posts back. I think too many are making too much of it as for strategizing when it comes out vs when it doesn't. I think having it be a decision is in itself adding an unnecessary element to the game.

But I really don't know what people are putting for? I mean (and its not anything rude when I say it)....but is this the open? and just how many strokes is anyone really gaining or losing per round average? And as I ve said, no matter which way you believe it helps or hurts more or not you would still (within that very minimal amount to begin with) have times it works the other way too therefore making even that much more meaningless.

I really just don't get the resistance. In some senses I feel like as if to say "get over yourself" as for all this nonsense being such the great decision that its risking losing the Open or ruining your rounds and handicap. I don't force people to leave it in and when im there and you want it out I will help. But honestly its a pain and im not leaving my chip or lag putt or lining up of my next putt just because someone just has to have it out. Without trying to be mean I think its just silly and too much is made of it. many folks (as ive mentioned) seem to be enjoying the little bit of freedom and easier flow not having to ever bother with it.
 
I still think many folks are making too big a deal of it being left in. Similar to "ryg" couple posts back. I think too many are making too much of it as for strategizing when it comes out vs when it doesn't. I think having it be a decision is in itself adding an unnecessary element to the game.

But I really don't know what people are putting for? I mean (and its not anything rude when I say it)....but is this the open? and just how many strokes is anyone really gaining or losing per round average? And as I ve said, no matter which way you believe it helps or hurts more or not you would still (within that very minimal amount to begin with) have times it works the other way too therefore making even that much more meaningless.

I really just don't get the resistance. In some senses I feel like as if to say "get over yourself" as for all this nonsense being such the great decision that its risking losing the Open or ruining your rounds and handicap. I don't force people to leave it in and when im there and you want it out I will help. But honestly its a pain and im not leaving my chip or lag putt or lining up of my next putt just because someone just has to have it out. Without trying to be mean I think its just silly and too much is made of it. many folks (as ive mentioned) seem to be enjoying the little bit of freedom and easier flow not having to ever bother with it.

I asked the same question upthread. Just how many tenths of a stroke off your handicap index do you think is achievable by leaving or pulling the stick according to some imagined "optimal" strategy?

Two tenths? Three? Half a stroke? No way, not a single so-called "study" has suggested a real-world effect anywhere near that large.
 
I have left it in for every round so far. Up till now I haven't had any deflect out.
Maybe it's Psychological but I feel more confident to give it more pace knowing the stick might deaden it which in turn helps me not leave it short. Yesterday I made a few 5-8 footers and then hit a 65 footer with the pin in.
But If I was playing with someone who insisted the Flag was out it really wouldn't be that big of a deal.
 
I don't get the logic to leave it in for long but then pull it for shorter ones. if its ok for a long one it should also be ok for a short one. The flag stick doesn't know your lag putting or not.
And so I guess....from afar your put isn't important but from 7 feet your putting for the win at the Open?
 
The only time I'm pulling it is if it's leaning.

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I don't get the logic to leave it in for long but then pull it for shorter ones. if its ok for a long one it should also be ok for a short one. The flag stick doesn't know your lag putting or not.
And so I guess....from afar your put isn't important but from 7 feet your putting for the win at the Open?

It’s a visual perception thing for me. Long putts you would have someone tend it so flag was in to spot the hole. Then it would get pulled as got close. Now- leaving it in is like someone tending it. Once I’m close, it just LOOKS bigger with it out and is less distracting IMO.


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It’s a visual perception thing for me. Long putts you would have someone tend it so flag was in to spot the hole. Then it would get pulled as got close. Now- leaving it in is like someone tending it. Once I’m close, it just LOOKS bigger with it out and is less distracting IMO.


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I get it. For some, it's a comfort issue and they've said as much. With others, it's a visual perception issue. For me, I like the flag in. From long-distance, it improves my distance perception. I've got a flagstick that goes up to eye level. I also find the flag in gives me a specific spot to aim. Sometimes on putts where you have to aim inside the hole, it's hard to find some imperfection on the cup to use as your aiming point. With the flag in I've got more visual options. Aim at the middle of the flagstick, left edge of the stick, right edge, just off the left edge of the flagstick. Finally, with the flagstick in I visualize sending the ball with a speed that will hit the stick while dropping into the hole.
 
The vast majority of guys I play with leave it in for all putts over 25 feet and want it pulled for putts inside of 10 feet. I’m always pulling it inside of 20 feet, mostly because the flag flapping in the wind is distracting to me and the hole looks larger with the flag out. I also love the sound of the ball rattling into the bottom of the cup.
 
This rule needs to change. I am getting tired of screwing with the flagstick when golfers have different preferences. It has the complete opposite effect and slows down the game. It was especially annoying in my amateur tournament last Friday. I felt like we were doing a dance all day on the green. Instead of focusing on putting we were focused on the flagstick.


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This rule needs to change. I am getting tired of screwing with the flagstick when golfers have different preferences. It has the complete opposite effect and slows down the game. It was especially annoying in my amateur tournament last Friday. I felt like we were doing a dance all day on the green. Instead of focusing on putting we were focused on the flagstick.


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Agree 100%.

The only added benefit is that almost everyone is ok with the flag in from long range, but inside 10 ft you've now got golfers who demand it out and golfers who demand it in. We're all just masterbating the hole with the effing flagstick the whole time.
 
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