What's Happening? Flagstick In or Out?

Our holes get moved twice a week. By the third day there is definitely going to be damage to quite a few of them. That far predates the new flagstick rule. Maybe it's worse now but if so, not enough that I can detect the difference.

As I've mentioned before, there have always (as long as I've been playing golf anyway) been guys who want to flip their putter toe-down and gouge the ball out of the hole, causing damage. Maybe those are the same guys who, when leaving the stick in, have found some new and novel way of taking chunks out of the lip...
 
Et Tu Brute?;n8880423 said:
Our holes get moved twice a week. By the third day there is definitely going to be damage to quite a few of them. That far predates the new flagstick rule. Maybe it's worse now but if so, not enough that I can detect the difference.

As I've mentioned before, there have always (as long as I've been playing golf anyway) been guys who want to flip their putter toe-down and gouge the ball out of the hole, causing damage. Maybe those are the same guys who, when leaving the stick in, have found some new and novel way of taking chunks out of the lip...

We’ve had the same head greenskeeper for 18 years and he confirmed that the hole damage is much, much worse this year than anytime in the past. I’ve started pointing it out to the perpetrator when I see it happen in my group. Most the guys don’t realize they are doing it.
 
tahoebum;n8880399 said:
Or maybe the normal state of the holes at public courses is already worse. My club changes the pin locations daily has some of the best conditioned greens in Minnesota which makes it easy makes a damaged lip of the hole stick out like a sore thumb.
oh yea Id have to assume unfortunately that likely has been the case anyway. Not to mention the minefield we had to putt through yesterday at one of my public munis. Im always repairing many pitch marks as others are putting or when i can. Certainly is more work than grabbing pins ever was. that much I ll give ya...lol.
But people do tend to often enough get careless with the pins too and there are always a couple/few holes here and there with pin damage in years past. No doubt a private club there is likely much more care of the greens via the members vs public munis.
 
Most of those I play with, we all take it out for most putts within 20 feet and even then not all the time...as someone gets closer to the hole, they'll take it out and we'll finish out with it in hand...don't think it's much slower or faster either way...playing alone? Probably just keep it in...I don't play alone much though, reminds me too much of practicing, and who wants to do that!? ;)
 
I only pull it if the wind has it leaning over. If it’s straight I just leave it in.


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rollin;n8880341 said:
here is something to point out imo.
There are indeed very many folks being from the "out" camp who are leaving it in till closer. That in itself (even coming from that camp) imo whether realized or not speaks for the fact that dealing with the pin always was generally an unnecessary disruption to the play and flow of the group. That action imo whether you know it or not is in part admitting this very thing. Even those folks are finding things much simpler and or smoother flowing by having all tend to their own ball bushiness via not dealing at all with the pins till much closer. Just sayin :)
It's a distraction for some. Period. Not for you but for others. Accept it and move on.
 
tahoebum;n8880364 said:
And the flagstick in has caused a new disruption, damaged edges to the hole that require time and effort to fix. Golfers are damaging the edge of the hole when pulling there balls out with the flagstick in, often causing areas around the perimeter of the hole to be pulled up higher than the surrounding green surface. Damaged holes are now much more common than ever before, an unintended consequence of the new rule that I�m guessing nobody anticipated. I spent a couple minutes fixing the edges of holes during my last round and am now checking the condition of the hole before any putt inside of 15 feet, something I didn��t have to do in the past. During my last round, 8 or 9 holes had obvious damage from a careless or large handed golfer. We now have another way for lazy or clumsy golfers to do damage to the course.

Without question. The damage from the fat fingers trying to dig for the ball is enormous.
 
pilot25;n8882826 said:
It's a distraction for some. Period. Not for you but for others. Accept it and move on.

I do accept it "when I play". In fact I even assist with pulling it (if you've read my posts in the thread and others). But I dont have move on discussion wise and can certainly still discuss it being a disruption to flow. This is in part what a discussion forum is for.
 
rollin;n8883191 said:
I do accept it "when I play". In fact I even assist with pulling it (if you've read my posts in the thread and others). But I dont have move on discussion wise and can certainly still discuss it being a disruption to flow. This is in part what a discussion forum is for.
Does not disrupt flow at all. Closest takes it out and first in puts it back. It's the people who have no golf etiquette that disrupt the flow.

You should have to take an etiquette test before playing a course or being allowed a tee time. This would improve pace of play and "flow."

I do shooting sports all the time and you aren't allowed to participate unless you can pass a safety test. Break any safety rules and you are disqualified. If golf implemented the same style the courses would be in better shape, pace wouldn't be a problem, and worries about "flow" would be non-existent because everyone would do what they are supposed to do and when they are supposed to do it.
 
I've been very surprised at the number of people who want to leave the flagstick in this year. I like having it out unless I'm 40 feet away or so (I left it in at that distance playing solo because it wasn't going in anyway) and if I'm the only one who likes it out, then I feel like the Richard which isn't fair. I've tried to keep things going by having everyone who wants it in putt out and then the rest of us will play. I've been lucky at league this year since my buddy likes it out as well.
 
pilot25;n8882830 said:
Without question. The damage from the fat fingers trying to dig for the ball is enormous.

I have noticed this too. I find it's really not hard to remove the ball without any damage to the hole, but you have to have some awareness and dexterity.
 
pilot25;n8884478 said:
Does not disrupt flow at all. Closest takes it out and first in puts it back. It's the people who have no golf etiquette that disrupt the flow.

You should have to take an etiquette test before playing a course or being allowed a tee time. This would improve pace of play and "flow."

I do shooting sports all the time and you aren't allowed to participate unless you can pass a safety test. Break any safety rules and you are disqualified. If golf implemented the same style the courses would be in better shape, pace wouldn't be a problem, and worries about "flow" would be non-existent because everyone would do what they are supposed to do and when they are supposed to do it.

I wont disagree with the whole pace thing. But dealing with the pins has always been a flow disruption. Anything we do outside of actually taking our shots (or chips or putts, etc...) is a disruption to flow. Someone has to get the pin and someone has to put it back, deal with people lines in doing so, and remove themself from taking care of their own business in order to do it. No matter how you slice it, it is a disruption to flow. It may or not be a big deal depending on the different scenarios (every hole and 4some positions is different scenarios as we play) but none the less was always a disruption. Just because its something we are always use to doing doesnt mean it was never a disruption. Ive said this in the thread many times......if it were always a rule that pins cant be touched and only now did they make a new rule where as the pin had to be removed, we would all be like "wtf" what a pain in the butt this is. Any act that requires anyone to take any time to do something outside of tending to his own play is disrupting flow.
 
I've grown quickly used to having the option of leaving it in, and I prefer it left in unless the pin is leaning against me or the shadow of the flag or pin is a visual distraction on shorter putts. I'm not convinced it really improves pace of play, in general everybody I play with plays ready golf and if someone needs a little extra time on the green somebody will go ahead and hit their putt.
 
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