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Is pace of play *actually* hurting the game?

Rode 18 in 1:39 with cart path only. 2 groups let me through and skipped over 2 and looped back later to play those holes. I must say when it is warm and humid that is a perfect speed for a quick 18.
 
I am a medium pace deliberate player. Slow is workable, brisk ok...but too fast is not, if my respiration is rising. imo, fast players find it harder with medium to slow play to adjust.
 
rollin said:
I have to be honest. Even as a single I wouldn't even want to do that. LOL
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Me neither.

I actually used to do that the first summer I was learning to play golf. Get to the course about 5:15 after work. Grab a cart and race around the course hitting shots almost without setting my feet. Pick up any putts inside 2-3 feet. If someone was playing ahead of me, just skip that hole. I could tee off at 5:15 and be home for supper before 7:00.

After the first dozen or so time doing that, I discovered that walking nine holes in that same hour and a half and actually playing golf was much more enjoyable. Haven't done the speed golf thing in at least 20 years.

I did play one very enjoyable "speed golf" round on the Ocean Course at Kiawah a few years ago. I had played a normal round in a foursome that morning, had a long lunch, then went back out solo for another round. It was mid-August so at 3pm the course was virtually empty. The young fellow who I was assigned as a caddie that round asked me if I wanted to play fast or slow and if I wanted to choose my own clubs or have him just hand them to me.

I said let's go for it and just blitz the course to see what it's like. So we literally started walking while each shot was still in the air, he'd hand me a club before we even got to the ball and call out a landmark to aim at, on the greens he would get to the flagstick before I even got to the ball, he'd point to a spot and say, "Hit it here, slower than it looks" or whatever the read was.

It was a blast! Again, wouldn't want to do that as a regular thing but we played in 90 minutes and I think I shot about 5 shots better than my morning round. It was almost like play video game golf.
 
Pace of play is a huge problem to me. It represents wasted time for everyone on the course when you're waiting 5-10 minutes between holes. And yes it will keep me away - courses that have been extremely slow numerous times lose my business. I have also asked and received rain checks in the past from courses where the pace of play was unacceptable (I'm talking 3 hours for 9).

That said, I'm by no means saying everyone needs to take no practice swings, run to their ball and play in 2.5 hours. I personally think about 3.5 - 4.5 hours is acceptable for most courses, and to be expected on a busy day. However, much more is not acceptable. Courses need to start enforcing their pace of play guidelines - many I've played seem to essentially ignore it.

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To be fair 1:39 isn't speed golf with a cart for me. I shot all my yardages and paced off sub 20 yarders and lined up all putts. Maybe when it is cold I will see how fast I can go. Could probably do sub 1 hour. I have done 1:10 on an empty course with severe thunderstorm warning getting very very close.
 
coworker and I were discussing if we could play tomorrow. We have this "close at one on Fridays" summer routine. They are having a dinner party, he needs to pick up his kid at 4:30. There is a course a 4 minute drive from work. He was thinking of squeezing in nine. I would just book 18 and play 18, he would drop off at the turn. After a group discussion, we convinced him not to play as this course often has lengthy rounds. The idea of rushing over there, playing hoping it is a reasonable pace round, the consequences for it being a slow round, the juice ain't worth the squeeze. So neither of us is playing that course. They are missing 1 18 and 1 9-hole booking as well as whatever we would get from the cart. I spent 10 bucks at the cart yesterday and am a relatively tight spender at our work. He would likely have an alcoholic beverage and so forth. So between the two of us it would be roughly 30 with tip.


those are customs not going to that course because of the reputation it has. He is not playing at all. I plan to play but will schedule my time at whatever course traffic looks okay to get to.
 
ntanygd760 said:
I have done 1:10 on an empty course with severe thunderstorm warning getting very very close.
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I've seen more than a few of those headlines pertaining to Golf...

Not good either.
 
A little over two hours today walking on an empty course.

If that was the norm, if golf 4x as much as I do.

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ntanygd760 said:
To be fair 1:39 isn't speed golf with a cart for me. I shot all my yardages and paced off sub 20 yarders and lined up all putts. Maybe when it is cold I will see how fast I can go. Could probably do sub 1 hour. I have done 1:10 on an empty course with severe thunderstorm warning getting very very close.
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Many folks here through time have mentioned similar times. Obviously I couldn't ever suggest what speed golf would be to you or anyone else for that matter. But at 1:39 Im going to assume is much more on the side of being a mission vs it ever is a relaxed round. No?
 
rollin said:
Many folks here through time have mentioned similar times. Obviously I couldn't ever suggest what speed golf would be to you or anyone else for that matter. But at 1:39 Im going to assume is much more on the side of being a mission vs it ever is a relaxed round. No?
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Keep in mind I work at the golf course so it is free and I have a tournament on Sunday. Needed to play but didn't feel like a 4 hour round in warm humid conditions.
I can golf anytime I want so my perspective will be different then the person playing once a week.
 
If you're getting a full 18 done in under 2 hours walking, hats off to you but that doesn't sound all that fun to me.
 
alexped2393 said:
If you're getting a full 18 done in under 2 hours walking, hats off to you but that doesn't sound all that fun to me.
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I agree, I just don't get the obsession of playing as fast as possible just to get 36 holes in or however many it may be

I would rather play 18 holes in 3 to 3.5 hours and enjoy the leisurely stroll and company
 
I walked 9 at a reasonably hilly course as a single in something like 60 minutes yesterday. And that included playing two balls on a lot of holes. Granted, this is a course I’m very familiar with, and it was absolutely wide open. But I wasn’t trying to rush, and just playing the ball down without thinking/looking at the time at all.

I’m not saying I’d expect to play in that time on a weekend, or with anyone else. But I think people underestimate how much time is lost for people being not ready to hit their next shot, and especially on the greens.
 
mpeterson said:
I walked 9 at a reasonably hilly course as a single in something like 60 minutes yesterday. And that included playing two balls on a lot of holes. Granted, this is a course I’m very familiar with, and it was absolutely wide open. But I wasn’t trying to rush, and just playing the ball down without thinking/looking at the time at all.

I’m not saying I’d expect to play in that time on a weekend, or with anyone else. But I think people underestimate how much time is lost for people being not ready to hit their next shot, and especially on the greens.
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I can agree with that to some degree. people do waste time and dont realize just how much they waste. We should also consider (even as a single) a more consistent ball striker vs a more wild one. A lot more ground needs to be covered for the player spraying balls. Actually when playing in a group its beneficial to have others because most that extra ground is taken care of while the others are taking their turns. So being somewhat errant imo can actually slow down the playing time of that single (when alone) more than it slows down the 4some group.
 
One thing about this thread as a topic.
There is a lot of posts (very many) in here describing respectable and even relatively quick rounds. They are also mentioned in most all the pace threads and discussions we often have. And fwiw that in itself works towards suggesting that pace issues are indeed not always an issue nor everywhere.
 
alexped2393 said:
If you're getting a full 18 done in under 2 hours walking, hats off to you but that doesn't sound all that fun to me.
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I used to. If you play the course so much that you know all yardages and can read the greens with your eyes closed it isn't all that big of a deal depending on the layout, your natural walking pace, length of preshot routine, and how many times you hit it sideways.
 
rollin said:
One thing about this thread as a topic.
There is a lot of posts (very many) in here describing respectable and even relatively quick rounds. They are also mentioned in most all the pace threads and discussions we often have. And fwiw that in itself works towards suggesting that pace issues are indeed not always an issue nor everywhere.
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Good heavens no. My area has a bunch of lower end public courses with efficient layouts that have decent to moderate traffic and the more blue collar clientele aren't exactly sticklers for the rules and don't live and die over missing a six footer so it keeps moving. It once in a while can get a bit slow on weekend mornings, but that is about it. There is a course here I can show up at with a foursome at 9AM Sunday without a tee time and play a sub 4 hour round and rarely have to wait at all except maybe to wait for a group or two to start before us.

One larger problem with golf is that we are becoming more urbanized, which means that a round of golf where my friend calls me at 3:45 on a Monday and we are on the tee by 4:30 and play a brisk round for <$30 on a decent course without having to wait at all is completely standard and routine for me. For someone in a more urban area this would be unthinkable, which is not going to be good long-term demographic news for the game seeing how many young people have to move to the city to find a decent paying job, which has the side effect of driving up land prices anywhere near the city which means having to charge higher greens fees to justify not just closing it and building houses which feeds the cycle.

Slow play itself isn't hurting much. It is more the process of getting to the first tee that is going to cause problems as to the player base.
 
Elbow Jobertski said:
I used to. If you play the course so much that you know all yardages and can read the greens with your eyes closed it isn't all that big of a deal depending on the layout, your natural walking pace, length of preshot routine, and how many times you hit it sideways.
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I am with you. I never feel like I rush or even am playing all that fast, but my times show that I am. A lot of it is I am spotting where the trouble is, picking my club and taking one, maybe two practice swings, move to the next ball. If I have playing partners, I can do all that while they are taking their turn. If I am alone, I can do that without waiting. Either way I am not going to add a terrible amount of time to the round and it doesn't matter if I am playing well or playing awful. I know my distances, I know my miss tendencies, I don't really need to check out distance to that pond about 100 yards out if I am pulling my 5i and I don't need to see that sand 350 yards up by the green.


I can play sub x hours and have it feel like a nice relaxed round and I can play sub x hours and have it feel like a long time if I am waiting on every shot. and the "x" can be 2, 3,4, or 5. Just depends on if the time is moving to the ball, hitting it, move to the ball, hit it, or if it is wait for Johnny Slow, wait for the group ahead, wait for the group ahead, wait for Johnny Slow in my group...that can be torture even if you end up playing in a decent amount of time. Because it feels longer.
 
and so....I normally talk of my county courses not really having many rounds that Id consider a real problem too often. Being that through the years they usually run 4 to 420 (weekends) and only occasionally longer to 430 and even rarer more than that.

Well today was one of those rarer bad days. 4:40 was the time. To make matters worse we were a 3some so we certainly had a bit much with the waiting. Only saving grace was the high heat and humidity. I say saving grace to the time frame only because we used the waiting time to rinse cold water on head/face/neck and also sit under tree shade and was needed to keep us rejuvenated.


I don't recall if I mentioned it in this thread or another but I have noticed this year we are playing far more rounds near 420 than in the past and the amount that are going over has increased a little too. Imo I think they have causes this increase as they decided to run tee times at 9 mins from what were 10 mins. I think 12 to 13 is ideal and I feel 10 is the minimum at least in order to give good pace a fighting chance. And now that its 9, I feel its crossed the line where the hurt is now noticeably felt.

Ok so still not 5 hr rounds but certainly many more 420 rounds vs before and also a percentage more of the longer ones than 420 creeping in. I think my greedy county blew it with this one not to mention the raised fees to boot.
 
alexped2393 said:
If you're getting a full 18 done in under 2 hours walking, hats off to you but that doesn't sound all that fun to me.
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I can but don't normally. 2:15 is about my walking pace
 
rollin said:
and so....I normally talk of my county courses not really having many rounds that Id consider a real problem too often. Being that through the years they usually run 4 to 420 (weekends) and only occasionally longer to 430 and even rarer more than that.

Well today was one of those rarer bad days. 4:40 was the time. To make matters worse we were a 3some so we certainly had a bit much with the waiting. Only saving grace was the high heat and humidity. I say saving grace to the time frame only because we used the waiting time to rinse cold water on head/face/neck and also sit under tree shade and was needed to keep us rejuvenated.


I don't recall if I mentioned it in this thread or another but I have noticed this year we are playing far more rounds near 420 than in the past and the amount that are going over has increased a little too. Imo I think they have causes this increase as they decided to run tee times at 9 mins from what were 10 mins. I think 12 to 13 is ideal and I feel 10 is the minimum at least in order to give good pace a fighting chance. And now that its 9, I feel its crossed the line where the hurt is now noticeably felt.

Ok so still not 5 hr rounds but certainly many more 420 rounds vs before and also a percentage more of the longer ones than 420 creeping in. I think my greedy county blew it with this one not to mention the raised fees to boot.
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My course does alternating 7 and 8 minute times. 10 for tournaments.
 
I walked on as a single for the first time at the public course that is 1.5 miles from my house. It was 4:20 as a foursome and it was first round in the last 13 months that I played with 3 strangers. All of them shot in the 90’s and were pleasant to play with but all of them had at least one slow tendency that wound up making the round 20-30 minutes longer than needed. I was walking and so was one of the others while the two older guys shared a cart. It was a fun round but given the choice of playing at my club with guys that don’t waste time out on the course, vs. 4:20 like today, it’s no contest. On Tuesday and Wednesday I played 18 and had a relaxing 75 minute lunch with beers afterwards in the same amount of time it took for my round today. There is zero chance I will play the muni course until October when I know the pace will be faster.

The funny thing is the only reason I wasn’t playing at my club is the 2 day member guest tournament is going on which I won’t play in because the rounds are about 6 hours, lol!
 
tahoebum said:
I walked on as a single for the first time at the public course that is 1.5 miles from my house. It was 4:20 as a foursome and it was first round in the last 13 months that I played with 3 strangers. All of them shot in the 90’s and were pleasant to play with but all of them had at least one slow tendency that wound up making the round 20-30 minutes longer than needed. I was walking and so was one of the others while the two older guys shared a cart. It was a fun round but given the choice of playing at my club with guys that don’t waste time out on the course, vs. 4:20 like today, it’s no contest. On Tuesday and Wednesday I played 18 and had a relaxing 75 minute lunch with beers afterwards in the same amount of time it took for my round today. There is zero chance I will play the muni course until October when I know the pace will be faster.

The funny thing is the only reason I wasn’t playing at my club is the 2 day member guest tournament is going on which I won’t play in because the rounds are about 6 hours, lol!
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I suppose a lot of pace opinion is relevant or subjective. You see,, for me I dont view 420 as a real problem. But part oif that stems from my old place of residence where 5 was a norm and 5.5 was common. So to me after all those years enduring that I don't mind at all that my county courses would produce 420 as usually a max (meaning very often has been less) as well as many rounds that have been about 4 even and sometimes (though not often)even less too. But 420 doesn't bother me. A little wait here and there I enjoy (if the compaby is good) and so I take in the course and the nature and rec time. But again and to be fair its only relevant to what I grew up with enduring. Now some 18 yers later and still feels ok to me.
 
Yeah 4 hours and 20 minutes is not long for a foursome. And while they each may have had a "slow play tendency," the goal isn't to get around as fast as possible.

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