Is pace of play *actually* hurting the game?

Yeah 4 hours and 20 minutes is not long for a foursome. And while they each may have had a "slow play tendency," the goal isn't to get around as fast as possible.

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I think for many 4:20 is a normal round. My average round as a foursome is 3:40 walking, a bit faster riding. I often play as a twosome or threesome and have no problem getting around in 3:10 and that’s stopping at the turn to grab a sandwich and beer to go. If a course is empty and I have a cart I can easily get around as a twosome in 2.5 hours. Most of those rounds are with my 13 year old daughter who shoots in the 90’s so any level of golfer can play fast if they are taught ready golf and don’t have a long pre shot routine. That is not being rushed, I just don’t take much time with putting or full shots and I’m ready to hit as soon as someone else has hit their approach or putt. I played for a couple decades at public courses that averaged over 4 hours but the last 9 years I’ve been at private courses where the pace is much faster, especially if you tee off before 9:30 am. The biggest advantage is I really enjoy playing 27, 36, or 45 holes. It’s common for me to play 36 once a week and finish in 6.5 hours or less.

I know 4+ hour golf is the norm in this country but I’m just glad that those like me and my golfing buddies that prefer faster and the resulting more rounds of golf each week have options. I have lots of friends that also drive on the freeway slower than me, they don’t mind taking their time and stopping for food when faced with a 2 or 3 hour drive. I’m going to hammer it at 10+ miles an hour over the speed limit and not stop for food. I guess I’m wired to go fast.
 
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I think for many 4:20 is a normal round. My average round as a foursome is 3:40 walking, a bit faster riding. I often play as a twosome or threesome and have no problem getting around in 3:10 and that’s stopping at the turn to grab a sandwich and beer to go. If a course is empty and I have a cart I can easily get around as a twosome in 2.5 hours. Most of those rounds are with my 13 year old daughter who shoots in the 90’s so any level of golfer can play fast if they are taught ready golf and don’t have a long pre shot routine. That is not being rushed, I just don’t take much time with putting or full shots and I’m ready to hit as soon as someone else has hit their approach or putt. I played for a couple decades at public courses that averaged over 4 hours but the last 9 years I’ve been at private courses where the pace is much faster, especially if you tee off before 9:30 am. The biggest advantage is I really enjoy playing 27, 36, or 45 holes. It’s common for me to play 36 once a week and finish in 6.5 hours or less.

I know 4+ hour golf is the norm in this country but I’m just glad that those like me and my golfing buddies that prefer faster and the resulting more rounds of golf each week have options. I have lots of friends that also drive on the freeway slower than me, they don’t mind taking their time and stopping for food when faced with a 2 or 3 hour drive. I’m going to hammer it at 10+ miles an hour over the speed limit and not stop for food. I guess I’m wired to go fast.
Not knocking you. Nothing wrong with playing fast. I play faster than most. The problem is when fast players think that "average" pace players are slow, and need to do things to speed up. Obviously, some of this depends on the course.

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I think for many 4:20 is a normal round. My average round as a foursome is 3:40 walking, a bit faster riding. I often play as a twosome or threesome and have no problem getting around in 3:10 and that’s stopping at the turn to grab a sandwich and beer to go. If a course is empty and I have a cart I can easily get around as a twosome in 2.5 hours. Most of those rounds are with my 13 year old daughter who shoots in the 90’s so any level of golfer can play fast if they are taught ready golf and don’t have a long pre shot routine. That is not being rushed, I just don’t take much time with putting or full shots and I’m ready to hit as soon as someone else has hit their approach or putt. I played for a couple decades at public courses that averaged over 4 hours but the last 9 years I’ve been at private courses where the pace is much faster, especially if you tee off before 9:30 am. The biggest advantage is I really enjoy playing 27, 36, or 45 holes. It’s common for me to play 36 once a week and finish in 6.5 hours or less.

I know 4+ hour golf is the norm in this country but I’m just glad that those like me and my golfing buddies that prefer faster and the resulting more rounds of golf each week have options. I have lots of friends that also drive on the freeway slower than me, they don’t mind taking their time and stopping for food when faced with a 2 or 3 hour drive. I’m going to hammer it at 10+ miles an hour over the speed limit and not stop for food. I guess I’m wired to go fast.

That last little sentence says a lot. Not just golf but many people are just slow/slower than others doing just about everything and anything. Whether its cleaning the dinner table after eating, or running an errand, or playing golf, or whatever the case people just move at different speeds as they do things and take care of any tasks. And honestly I am one who likes to move in most anything I do. However I find golf (one the reasons I play it) is suppose to be (to a certain degree) relaxing enjoyment as a recreation and not some task that needs to get done. That said....Of course that enjoyment can be dampened when it takes too long.
 
Not knocking you. Nothing wrong with playing fast. I play faster than most. The problem is when fast players think that "average" pace players are slow, and need to do things to speed up. Obviously, some of this depends on the course.

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that's exactly one the problems with pace. No matter the time frame its most always about "me" (meaning any of us). Most anything slower than one likes becomes an issue even if its really not one. And usually when that person needs more time to do something it then becomes ok for him to take that time. Pace is (by human nature) selfish. And that part makes the whole issue seem far worse than it often is as it becomes the number one issue even at places where it isn't even bad.

And no, before anyone thinks Im denying pace problems exist, that's not at all what im saying. Only bringing up that so many people do unnecessarily add on to the mountain making it much larger and wide spread than it actually is. It doesn't happen everywhere nor all the time. But yes where it is a real problem, it is indeed just that....its a real problem.
 
4:25 in the course championship playing 3 somes. Felt like a quick round as far as tournament rounds go.
 
Sometimes we get lucky. 3.5 hours to complete 18 holes.

And another Beautiful View of Downtown.
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I played 18 Monday and struggled my way around the course in under 4 hours. Unless were going over 5 hours I don't consider a round to be long.

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Pace of play gets too much attention in my opinion. If it's something you're supposed to enjoy I don't think there should really be a clock on it.

That said. I prefer to play fairly quickly. I'm okay if the course is full to just sit back and relax my way through a round, but I don't always schedule that into my day. If I'm unprepared for it, it has the potential to annoy me I suppose. Rare thing though. And when I golf with my wife I go into it with zero pace expectations.

We had an argument with the manager this morning about our tee time and the pace of the course. It sprinkled so people waited it out to get going and we were among them I guess. Didn't rush to the course because it was raining, and they (apparently someone else though) had said the night before they could just fit us in whenever, no problem. There were two groups sitting at the 1st tees, but he wouldn't even let us hit a few to warm up or putt because 'if you don't go right now you're going to have to wait an hour and a half because I've got people scheduled blah blah...' I guarantee we were the two best golfers at the course, going as a twosome, so I was kind of bitching at him about the attitude. Like 'you really think WE'RE gonna hold people up? We're going to be right up these people's *sses the second they tee off.' Anyway, the second group let us tee off with them, play through and the group ahead of them let us go through at the 3rd tee. We played through two more on the front and then it opened up on the back. Took us 2:28 start to finish. Everyone was delightful about it all on the course.

So here's the rub for me. I like to play at let's say 'the pace my ability allows' .. , but apparently I don't like to be rushed. And I feel rushed when I/we play through people. I shouldn't, but there's some part of my brain that says 'Hey, these people are nice enough to let you play through so hurry the F up and get out of their way'. And I rush. If you could handicap my scores on holes played through other groups, it would be definitely be worse. That's probably why I'm okay with letting go and just playing at the average pace when the course is crowded.
 
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and so....I normally talk of my county courses not really having many rounds that Id consider a real problem too often. Being that through the years they usually run 4 to 420 (weekends) and only occasionally longer to 430 and even rarer more than that.

Well today was one of those rarer bad days. 4:40 was the time. To make matters worse we were a 3some so we certainly had a bit much with the waiting. Only saving grace was the high heat and humidity. I say saving grace to the time frame only because we used the waiting time to rinse cold water on head/face/neck and also sit under tree shade and was needed to keep us rejuvenated.


I don't recall if I mentioned it in this thread or another but I have noticed this year we are playing far more rounds near 420 than in the past and the amount that are going over has increased a little too. Imo I think they have causes this increase as they decided to run tee times at 9 mins from what were 10 mins. I think 12 to 13 is ideal and I feel 10 is the minimum at least in order to give good pace a fighting chance. And now that its 9, I feel its crossed the line where the hurt is now noticeably felt.

Ok so still not 5 hr rounds but certainly many more 420 rounds vs before and also a percentage more of the longer ones than 420 creeping in. I think my greedy county blew it with this one not to mention the raised fees to boot.

and yet again today , a whopping 4:50. one the longest round Ive ever played in my county except for the occasional few times Ive played after an event. And another at 440 the other day. Its very clear to me that my long believed theory that tee time intervals being too close is an enormous factor. Never in 18 yrs playing my county courses have rounds continuously been over 420 till now. That lousy one minute from 10 down to 9 is making an easy 10 to 20 minute difference being the longer. And worse its even making the rare looooong round now become much more of an occurrence than it ever was before.

I mean all the same exact 5 courses and same exact people. Nothing at all has changed one bit. Only the one minute difference and now we have many more problems that we really didn't have before but were only the rarer occurrences. That prior 10 min mark was imo the breaking point right on the cusp. Now they've gone past it and the difference has been staggering. Not all round are like this but just so many now are longer over all by a big chunk of minutes.
 
Yikes, rollin.

I take back some of what I said. I don't think I could do it if rounds bordering on 5 hours were the new norm. That's a a good chunk of a day. I would definitely play less because of it. We played 18 in 2:02 this morning and we played through part of a big class reunion outing.
 
5 hours yesterday but the cause was mostly cart path only rules. Walkers had no issue. I saw a 3 hole gap between the group 3 and 4 in front of us. The group 4 in front of us I could see walking down 18 with 4 push carts while the next group was riding and playing 15.
 
5 hours yesterday but the cause was mostly cart path only rules. Walkers had no issue. I saw a 3 hole gap between the group 3 and 4 in front of us. The group 4 in front of us I could see walking down 18 with 4 push carts while the next group was riding and playing 15.

yea, cart path only is almost certainly a slower day. The cart people can often do more walking than the walkers. Especially those who are somewhat errant with their play. Honestly when its cart path only I don't even get why those who are able just don't ditch the carts for that day. On those days imo the carts truly do go from being any help to a player to being more of a detriment.
 
Yeah I would say CPO adds 20 minutes on average at my course.
 
... I feel rushed when I/we play through people. I shouldn't, but there's some part of my brain that says 'Hey, these people are nice enough to let you play through so hurry the F up and get out of their way'. And I rush. If you could handicap my scores on holes played through other groups, it would be definitely be worse. That's probably why I'm okay with letting go and just playing at the average pace when the course is crowded.

I'm sure you're not the only one. I can only remember one time that I've played well while playing through a group. I was invited to play through a 4some as a single at the turn. Hole 10 is a fairly difficult par 4. Water in front of the green from ~90 to ~40 out and the hole plays around 410 most of the time. I stripped one and had like 105 left. Hit GW to ~2' and tapped in for birdie in front of a group that I know figured I was gonna screw up. Ended up, that time, instead of playing through from the tee box, I played the hole with them from tee to green, then simply putted out first and went on to 11. By the time they were done putting, I was already at my tee shot in the fairway. From there, I never really saw them again.
 
you can be bad or slow but not both. My playing partner is the fastest golfer I've seen and he shoots anywhere from even to +5 depending on how much he's practiced. Makes for a very fast round.
 
4 to 5 hours is typical. It once bothered me, now when on the course no one is calling for IT support. It’s my time to relax and get away. I have no problem chillin and letting the group up front have a slow hole or two.


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Man I am glad I don’t have to deal with the average 4 or 5 hour rounds at our club. Typically my group of four can finish a round in just shy of 4 hours and that’s on a slow day.

Played 9 this evening with a buddy in about 90 mins.


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today was much better. Honestly it began on the (not real bad) but slow side with a 2:15 front. The group in front had no one in front of them and although that's no any nightmare it was slow considering that fact. We waited on every tee and on most greens. Actually it was their greens play that was slow as a rain delay. We have no idea what they were doing on the greens but it just didn't look or seem normal. Anyway they actually allowed us to play through on 10th tee. They seemed to want to sit and relax afew moments, From that point we played the back in 1:45 and honestly none the 4 of us played well (all of us probably mid 90's and ne of us over 100 and spraying pretty good. And still with the poorer play from all 4 of us we still played the back in 1:45. So combine that with the 2:15 front (due to that slower group ahead) and made for a round at 4hrs even.

On another note...…... hence the argument that poorer play (even from all 4 players) does not at all have mean rounds too slow. And to boot the way we all played are tee games would have led one behind to believe we were all on the wrng tees to long. We weren't because we all had the distance on our better played shots but none the less with the poor tee play ot also proves that tee choice has little to no affect. Plain and simply we just all knew how to go about our business of playing ready golf and moving on and none of us felt rushed even with the poor play from all 4 and yet did the back 9 in 1:45. Would have been done in 3:30 to 3:45 had we not been held up on the front for the 2:15. And fwiw the back is actuallly the longer of the two 9's as well.
 
Walked 18 in 2:30. Played through a few groups but waited 5 minutes on every tee the last 5 holes.
 
ntanygd760;n8875216 said:
Walked 18 in 2:30. Played through a few groups but waited 5 minutes on every tee the last 5 holes.
The difference between a 6 and a half hour round and any round under 3 hours is night and day.

Anyone who honestly argues differently may need to reconsider. It literally feels like we would need to stop and return to the driving range to warm up in the middle of the round when it takes 45 minutes to tee up between holes.

You lose any sense rhythm or continuity. Your score invariably suffers. And honestly many individuals have quite the sport. Can you really dedicate 1 hour to travel, 1 hour to warmup, 6 hours to play and another hour to drive home? 8 hours? Is this a full time job or a recreational pursuit?

3 to 4 hours a round is plenty of time even for the professionals in a major. Who are we kidding, when anyone believes that a 6 hour round of golf doesn't hurt the sport in general, and your individual score and Handicap.

Any and every one is welcome to play. But we are not pitching a tent and spending the weekend on the 12 hole waiting to enjoy the perfect sunset.

M2C

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I heard that it took some of the guys over 5 hours to finish last weekend in the club championship at our club. I’ve only had 2 rounds at my club out of 50+ this year go over 4 hours and none go longer than 4:10. I was with family and friends up at our lake home for the weekend but I may never play in the club championship if that’s how long it takes. Life is too short for slow golf.
 
I dont really think its pace of play thats an issue for my local courses. To me its cramming as many groups out there as possible, including letting walk ups play the back 9 between groups. Self induced log jams for the sake of cash is killing pace. I played an outing last week that had 18 groups playing a really tough course and we finished right on the 4 hour mark. Only waited once and that was because a group let another group play through while they went on a beer run.

Spread out the tee times, dont let another group tee off until the group in front of them is on the green and pace should be fine
 
Johan185;n8875312 said:
Who are we kidding, when anyone believes that a 6 hour round of golf doesn't hurt the sport in general, and your individual score and Handicap.

This is interesting, Johan. Pace of play may not be hurting the game, but on any given weekend, it may be hurting your game as an individual. But does that have a lasting effect?
 
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