Is pace of play *actually* hurting the game?

I guess i am very lucky, when I play with the reg old guy group we go off 1st thing or at worst 3rd or 4th group and play in 3 hr and change. When i get to go over and golf with antihero or pudge it is private courses and again 3.5 maybe 4 hrs at the worst so I am spoiled.

I do not like to rush around, but playing ready golf we don't rush. If every round was 4.5 or more it would be frustrating but not be the end of the world but not nearly as enjoyable. I am golfing with DWHockey tomorrow and we go off at 8:07 and most likely it will be a bit slower being a holiday weekend sat. but I hope not more than 4-4.5 hrs.
 
I have never heard of anyone not play because of this.

Yes an annoyance, but a hindrance to the growth of the game? I don't see it.

Posted by my thumbs.



I have a course that costs me the same whether I play 6 rounds that day or zero. I paid my money at the start of the year, the money is gone so I would always rather play. I seldom if ever play there on Saturdays.

See, the "Rat Pack" as they like to call themselves has the first four tee times reserved. They are retired gentleman (and a few wives, but those have their own group) who insist on being first off and literally every Saturday, they have those times blocked off. This is a course I play 9 in anywhere from 45 to 1:08, shortest to longest, when alone. Behind them it is a 2 to 2-1/2 hour round. When I play in a twosome I am okay with 1:15, a threesome maybe 1:30 and I have played it in a foursome and only hated some of the time at 1:45...but it was too slow. We are talking 2400 yards par 34 course, that is really too long to play it crawling.

At 1:30 with a friend or two, it is a good time. at 2:30 it is...not.

I routinely don't play what is essentially free golf because of the pace of play.

I have friends who turn down rounds for same reason.

My brother and his wife don't play anymore because of the pace...and they are slow players themselves.

Anecdotal, but there definitely are people who don't play either at times or at all because of this.
 
I have a course that costs me the same whether I play 6 rounds that day or zero. I paid my money at the start of the year, the money is gone so I would always rather play. I seldom if ever play there on Saturdays.

See, the "Rat Pack" as they like to call themselves has the first four tee times reserved. They are retired gentleman (and a few wives, but those have their own group) who insist on being first off and literally every Saturday, they have those times blocked off. This is a course I play 9 in anywhere from 45 to 1:08, shortest to longest, when alone. Behind them it is a 2 to 2-1/2 hour round. When I play in a twosome I am okay with 1:15, a threesome maybe 1:30 and I have played it in a foursome and only hated some of the time at 1:45...but it was too slow. We are talking 2400 yards par 34 course, that is really too long to play it crawling.

At 1:30 with a friend or two, it is a good time. at 2:30 it is...not.

I routinely don't play what is essentially free golf because of the pace of play.

I have friends who turn down rounds for same reason.

My brother and his wife don't play anymore because of the pace...and they are slow players themselves.

Anecdotal, but there definitely are people who don't play either at times or at all because of this.
Good comment. Is it the only course you play? Do you play elsewhere on Saturdays?

Posted by my thumbs.
 
It is definitely a problem.

Does it keep me from going to certain courses, because I know the rounds become 5-6 hour rounds? For sure.

My free time is limited. If I get away to the course, it is because my kiddo is with mom all day, or with my parents. For me, I want to be on the course and ripping along, so I can get back home.

My single friends don't get why I can't/don't do the 2 hour drive to courses, and then the 5 hour round, and then lunch/drinks, and then drive home again. I just can't justify being gone that long.
 
... "You see what you want to see and hear what you want to hear" Of course slow play is a problem. People tend to look at things thru their own lens instead of considering all that play. There are a ton of reasons slow play bothers golfers. I have had 2 back surgeries and I like to keep moving. Behind a "methodical" group I can adjust my pace, but behind a genuine slow group it takes a toll on me physically and my back tightens up, especially waiting in the fairway while the betting 4some stalks their 3rd putt from every angle. My playing pard has young kids and being away from home for 6-7 hours isn't an option.

Instead of complaining about pace, why don't you play through? If I catch a group on a tee box I ask to play through or join. Pretty simple fix.

Posted by my thumbs.
 
Does it keep me from going to certain courses, because I know the rounds become 5-6 hour rounds? For sure.

But it sounds like it doesn't keep you from playing, or turn you away from the game permanently, thus not contributing to the decline.

Posted by my thumbs.
 
I also have friends who have given up playing because their wife doesn't like they are gone all morning and well into the afternoon.

Woof. That's a crazy thought for me. I feel for those guys.

Posted by my thumbs.
 
I'm envious of many of you in this thread. My normal round is around 4 and a half hours. I can live with that but if its 5 and half to six hours I'm out.

For most of the courses in my area you just can't play through, there is a foursome on every hole. Maybe not in the afternoon in the summertime, but then you have to play in 110 degree heat.
 
I'm about as passionate about golf as anyone but I've decided not to play because I knew it would take too long. I've also walked off at the turn because it was taking too long and the group ahead wouldn't let me through. I completely understand that golf is a game that is going to take a significant amount of time, but it's getting to be too much. About the only time I'll play anymore is if I'm one of the first tee times so we can move at a good pace. It's tough for me to be away from my family for so long, especially when I have other things to do around the house.

This is interesting, Kev. Question for you: since seemingly nothing can be done to completely eliminate pace of play issues across the sport, do you consider deciding not to play at all (vs going somewhere with a more open tee sheet) also contributing to the decline in the sport?

I fully understand the outside responsibility aspect of some of these arguments, but I'm thinking more along the lines of not playing even if you have a wide open day just because it may be slow.

Posted by my thumbs.
 
From 2011 to 2017, golf lost 1.9 million participants.
Consumer satisfaction surveys, according to Golf Advisor revealed the two most important items that keep people from playing. Course Conditions and Pace of Play.

Both of these topics were big pieces at the 2019 Golf Innovation Symposium in Tokyo as they look towards technology trends as a way to speed up play. Measuring data and how they can better manage full courses, that have tee times faster than golfers are playing holes. Tee it Forward has not worked despite a huge campaign. It is taking golfers 12 minutes on average to play a par 4. When tee time intervals are less than that, and just about every course in the country is, that becomes a problem for pace.
 
But it sounds like it doesn't keep you from playing, or turn you away from the game permanently, thus not contributing to the decline.

Posted by my thumbs.

But everything contributes to the decline. Saying pace doesn't glosses over the issue. ANYTHING that is a potential trigger for someone not to go to pick up the clubs contributes.

Is Pace the sole factor? Definitely not. Neglected courses, jerk staff, poor ammenities, an overall unfavorable experience..... they all play a part.
 
It’s a problem and the main reason I don’t play on weekends. The other afternoon I played and brought my 6yr old daughter. She hit some balls on the fairway and putted almost every one. I played a full 18 and she just played and had fun. We finished in 3 hrs. It’s a great sport and I love it but should not be over 4:30-5:00 max. Around here it seems the courses are scared to enforce anything as would offend the players and they would leave bad reviews.
 
But everything contributes to the decline. Saying pace doesn't glosses over the issue. ANYTHING that is a potential trigger for someone not to go to pick up the clubs contributes.

Is Pace the sole factor? Definitely not. Neglected courses, jerk staff, poor ammenities, an overall unfavorable experience..... they all play a part.

Could't agree more. I don't see a push from the governing bodies and networks asking pro shop staff to be nicer to guests, or to greens keepers to not cut holes on crowns....I slightly suspect that pitting the blame on the consumer is motivated by money.


Posted by my thumbs.
 
Could't agree more. I don't see a push from the governing bodies and networks asking pro shop staff to be nicer to guests, or to greens keepers to not cut holes on crowns....I slightly suspect that pitting the blame on the consumer is motivated by money.


Posted by my thumbs.

I agree with this. Between management companies and online booking agents, the experience wanes. With that said as the link above illustrates, nobody ever thinks they are slow so that is part of the problem.

Play slow and hold up the whole course and what are the ramifications? A powerless ranger chirping at someone twice in 5.5 hours? Literally no penalty at all for killing a course for a day.
 
This is interesting, Kev. Question for you: since seemingly nothing can be done to completely eliminate pace of play issues across the sport, do you consider deciding not to play at all (vs going somewhere with a more open tee sheet) also contributing to the decline in the sport?

I fully understand the outside responsibility aspect of some of these arguments, but I'm thinking more along the lines of not playing even if you have a wide open day just because it may be slow.

Posted by my thumbs.

I would agree that me not going to play definitely contributes to the decline in the sport, and that's exactly why something needs to be done. Unfortunately for us there is no open tee sheet in the area, the courses are almost always packed. It's a good problem to have but it's a huge problem when someone like me, who absolutely loves the game of golf, would rather sit out a round than spend that much time playing.

Even if my day is completely open I struggle with sitting and waiting in between every. single. shot. Maybe my attention span is too short but I just don't enjoy sitting and waiting every hole.
 
I can only say that, for me at least, I may not "hurt the game" as much as others.

I belong to a private course where a long round is 4:15 or so. I prefer to play in 3:45 or so as a foursome. Not super fast but certainly not slow.

Because I am relatively spoiled----there are times when I refuse to play a public course because I'm fairly certain it will take longer.

I've experienced a few 4:30+ rounds and just find myself not having fun.

So I guess I would otherwise spend a few more dollars/month supporting public golf tracks if pace were better.

Does my personal bias "hurt golf"?

Probably only marginally

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I grew up watching test cricket which takes 5 days .. so I think golf is a fast sport.

Kidding aside, I really don't think it hurts the PGA guys. They are used to playing this pace right from the start and taking their own time on shots.

I do think it hurts the growth of the game as most amateurs play for fun. Or to get better at the game. They have to make time during their work/school/weekends to go out and play. The last thing anyone wants to do in those conditions is wait 5-10 minutes before tee-ing off on every hole. This is the kind of stuff that could turn people away from the game and look for other means of enjoyment. If you are not enjoying yourself, 5-6 hours is a massive amount of time to marinate in anger and frustration.
 
Yes it is a problem. It’s less about the “I’m going to be gone for an extra 30 minutes” than it is the “I’m going to waste a day playing golf when half of the time is waiting for the group in front of me to speed up.

People don’t like to sit and wait 5-10 between shots. If it took 5 hours but was steadily moving, the pace would not be an issue.

I agree with this 100% but would also be curious what it does to courses? If weekend morning round takes 4 hours vs 4:30 vs 5 hours how many more rounds/how much more revenue could they bring in? Not too mention how many people won't return to a course if they have had a bad experience (I have this feeling about several courses in the area due to slow play) impacting repeat business.

Growing the game is a lot harder if you don't retain the people that already play it.
 
Links to surveys? I'm really curious who is touting the information. I think if you use this thread as a "survey" you'd see different responses.

And my house to rustic canyon (where I play often is 14 miles. It takes me 12 minutes.

Posted by my thumbs.

people who don't golf, with one of the reasons being the time consumption, probably aren't going to posting in this thread - or using this site to begin with
 
people who don't golf, with one of the reasons being the time consumption, probably aren't going to posting in this thread - or using this site to begin with
True. Do you know anyone who cites pace of play as their reason for not taking up the sport? Most of my non-playing friends say they find don't find it interesting, or they fear they'd be no good. Others flat out don't like sports.

Posted by my thumbs.
 
Pace doesn't really bother me. I would rather be on a golf course, playing a game with family or friends, outside enjoying nature, then to be at work any day. I play golf because I love it. I never want it to end. What is the hurry?

I'm 57 years old and battling two heath problems. Diabetes w/severe neuropathy and MS. Because of these two diseases, I rarely get to play anymore, but when I do, I enjoy my time at the course. I would rather be stuck on the golf course over a lot of places I have been in my life.

I have never minded it one little bit to be behind a young family, out with their kids, making memories. If they wave me thru, I tell em it is ok and to take their time. Slow play can suck when able bodied people have little or no regard for others, but there is no clear solution, so I just roll with the flow and enjoy being on the golf course.
 
For me personally no it’s not a problem. But I 100% have heard from many people that they rarely golf because of how long it takes. And many courses advertise as the 4hr round. I also have golfed with many people who quit after 9 if it take significantly over 2 hours. And say they will likely not golf again in the near future.
 
True. Do you know anyone who cites pace of play as their reason for not taking up the sport? Most of my non-playing friends say they find don't find it interesting, or they fear they'd be no good. Others flat out don't like sports.

Posted by my thumbs.
My dad tried to get my mom into the game, bought her clubs and tried to take her out. She played tennis, but never got into golf. She said it just took too much time.

That being said, I don't think 3:30 rounds would have changed her mind.
 
My dad tried to get my mom into the game, bought her clubs and tried to take her out. She played tennis, but never got into golf. She said it just took too much time.

That being said, I don't think 3:30 rounds would have changed her mind.
Alright! Chalk one up! I'm genuinely curious is time prevents people from even feigning interest.

Posted by my thumbs.
 
I know a few guys, good players too, who have drastically curtailed their play due to the pace of play on weekends (their only opportunity to play). I can't imagine them being alone.

As for me, no issue, but I only play during the week and when pace is unusually slow, I'll often just pack it in for another day. I'm spoiled now.
 
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