Leftover Range Balls?

[V14_Heels]

Stealing, not really per say. However, every course that has a range usually has a sign that says don’t do exactly that.

Not any range I've ever been to, and if I come across one that has a sign like that I'll never be back. This is where customer service and hospitality can win or lose a customer, and them putting up that sign to save their literal $0 just serves no purpose in my opinion.

It's like if I ran a coffee shop. 6 guys come in every Monday morning for a Bible study. 5 buy coffee, one brings his own coffee. The guy who brings his own coffee goes and gets a little creamer, uses a stir stick and sometimes uses a napkin to wipe up a little spill he makes. I COULD put up a sign that says no creamer unless you're a paying customer. OR I could ignore it and eat the literal PENNIES, tell him good morning every time he walks in, and hope one day he tries our coffee...OR better yet maybe he shares how friendly and awesome my coffee shop is to 5 of his other buddies who now eventually check it out. It's all perspective. I like a friendly course, that does everything it can to keep beginners in the game, and offer a friendly welcoming environment.

 

[sposey013168]

Your paying to use the facility not just to hit the balls. I would go in and get a small bucket and then go and hit some of the leftovers. Just showing up and hitting leftover balls is wrong IMO.


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So true


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[sposey013168]

Not any range I've ever been to, and if I come across one that has a sign like that I'll never be back. This is where customer service and hospitality can win or lose a customer, and them putting up that sign to save their literal $0 just serves no purpose in my opinion.

It's like if I ran a coffee shop. 6 guys come in every Monday morning for a Bible study. 5 buy coffee, one brings his own coffee. The guy who brings his own coffee goes and gets a little creamer, uses a stir stick and sometimes uses a napkin to wipe up a little spill he makes. I COULD put up a sign that says no creamer unless you're a paying customer. OR I could ignore it and eat the literal PENNIES, tell him good morning every time he walks in, and hope one day he tries our coffee...OR better yet maybe he shares how friendly and awesome my coffee shop is to 5 of his other buddies who now eventually check it out. It's all perspective. I like a friendly course, that does everything it can to keep beginners in the game, and offer a friendly welcoming environment.

Let’s be honest here, you are just being cheap and not wanting to pay for what you are using.



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[InTheRough]

The league I used to play in teed off at 8:00. The range opened at 8:00. If you wanted to warm up a little before tee off, you had to go out onto the range with a bucket and pick up a few balls that people mishit. Yeah, that's what you did because the desk wouldn't give you a token at 7:30.

 

[V14_Heels]

Let’s be honest here, you are just being cheap and not wanting to pay for what you are using.



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Oh I feel like I've been VERY honest in this entire conversation. I do like cheap. I don't know a single person on the planet that just likes to waste money, but I disagree completely with your "not wanting to pay for what your using" statement. This whole paying to use the facility thing is over hyped. YES you are which is why you buy a bag of range balls...going and picking up another 10 that were already hit is robbing the facility of what exactly? I don't get it at all.

 

[ntanygd760]

Not any range I've ever been to, and if I come across one that has a sign like that I'll never be back. This is where customer service and hospitality can win or lose a customer, and them putting up that sign to save their literal $0 just serves no purpose in my opinion.

It's like if I ran a coffee shop. 6 guys come in every Monday morning for a Bible study. 5 buy coffee, one brings his own coffee. The guy who brings his own coffee goes and gets a little creamer, uses a stir stick and sometimes uses a napkin to wipe up a little spill he makes. I COULD put up a sign that says no creamer unless you're a paying customer. OR I could ignore it and eat the literal PENNIES, tell him good morning every time he walks in, and hope one day he tries our coffee...OR better yet maybe he shares how friendly and awesome my coffee shop is to 5 of his other buddies who now eventually check it out. It's all perspective. I like a friendly course, that does everything it can to keep beginners in the game, and offer a friendly welcoming environment.

Who brings coffee to a coffee shop, shouldn't even be allowed through the door in the first place.

 

[sposey013168]

Oh I feel like I've been VERY honest in this entire conversation. I do like cheap. I don't know a single person on the planet that just likes to waste money, but I disagree completely with your "not wanting to pay for what your using" statement. This whole paying to use the facility thing is over hyped. YES you are which is why you buy a bag of range balls...going and picking up another 10 that were already hit is robbing the facility of what exactly? I don't get it at all.

By reading you original post you did not buy a bag of range balls you said you are showing up early and using the range for free.
Justify it all you want, but you should pay period.
Your coffee shop analogy was laughable


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[Matthew]

By reading you original post you did not buy a bag of range balls you said you are showing up early and using the range for free.
Justify it all you want, but you should pay period.
Your coffee shop analogy was laughable


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That’s the way I read it as well. My course ran into the same problem, so now if you want to use the range you have to go to the shop & get a bucket. The cart kids are pretty quick to grab said bucket when you dump the balls out & pick any not used up as soon as you walk off. It doesn’t bother me since I pay $14 a month for all the range usage I want. Notice I said usage, not balls.


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[wubears71]

Have you ever walked into a reception uninvited and started to indulge in the open bar or food? Have you ever walked into a bar and drank someone else’s half drunk drink? How is the range any different? How would a bar owner feel if you came in and drank the leftover drinks?


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[V14_Heels]

Have you ever walked into a reception uninvited and started to indulge in the open bar or food? Have you ever walked into a bar and drank someone else’s half drunk drink? How is the range any different? How would a bar owner feel if you came in and drank the leftover drinks?


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Your first analogies suck. You guys are struggling to follow the thread. The story has changed since the original post. We’re no longer talking about using the range for free. I’ve owned that and admitted that’s wrong. The conversation is now about hitting extra left over balls. I bought a bag and play the course regularly. They get money from me.

I could absolutely careless if another patron of the bar I own finishes a beer, or an unfinished plate food or literally anything else that was already paid for once. You’ve never had your wife polish off your drink before? A friend grab a fry that’s left over?

Oh but wait they’re technically using my facility so I guess I should charge them again for the half beer that was paid for in full right?

 

[V14_Heels]

By reading you original post you did not buy a bag of range balls you said you are showing up early and using the range for free.
Justify it all you want, but you should pay period.
Your coffee shop analogy was laughable

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Yea but it’s not laughable. It’s actually quite legit. I worked at Starbucks for 2 years. It happened REGULARLY. People bring their own coffee cause they don’t want to pay $3 for a coffee and are there just for the gathering. Again it’s important to read the actual thread from start to finish. I’ve openly admitted showing up to use the bucket was a misstep and have corrected that by buying a bag of balls. This is literally about playing leftover range balls when I paid for a bag.

 

[wubears71]

Your first analogies suck. You guys are struggling to follow the thread. The story has changed since the original post. We’re no longer talking about using the range for free. I’ve owned that and admitted that’s wrong. The conversation is now about hitting extra left over balls. I bought a bag and play the course regularly. They get money from me.

I could absolutely careless if another patron of the bar I own finishes a beer, an I unfinished plate food or literally anything else that was already paid for once. Oh but wait they’re technically using my facility so I guess I should charge them again for the half beer that was paid for in full right?

The conversation doesn’t pertain to you then. Stop getting defensive. The point is that if you use the range and range balls are not included in your greens fee then buy range balls and be done with it.

We are now speaking to the ones that think it’s okay to just mosey over to the range and start hitting balls that are either left over or already on the freaking range because he/she is too cheap to pay for the privilege to use the range.


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[V14_Heels]

The conversation doesn’t pertain to you then. Stop getting defensive. The point is that if you use the range and range balls are not included in your greens fee then buy range balls and be done with it.

We are now speaking to the ones that think it’s okay to just mosey over to the range and start hitting balls that are either left over or already on the freaking range because he/she is too cheap to pay for the privilege to use the range.


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Did they pay for green fees and have a tee time in this scenario? If they did I don’t have any problem with it. Kudos for being resourceful and cleaning up badly hit balls. As long as there in no ones way I still don’t care.

Back to the bar analogy. If someone comes in for dinner, buys dinner and then sticks around for awhile and finishes random drinks off the bar. More power to them. I could careless. Those drinks were bought and paid for its costing me nothing as the owner. I’d rather see a customer happy then dump them down a drain.

 

[wubears71]

Dude. Why so defensive? You clearly started the thread looking for approval for something you knew was wrong. So you recognized what you were doing was wrong. Good for you. I am in no way referring to your OP. I am just extremely annoyed that I pay $$ for the privilege of using the range and playing on the course but some freeloaded thinks it’s perfectly acceptable to walk into the range and hand shag a half bucket of balls because he is too cheap to pay the $6 for a bucket.


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[OldandStiff]

The league I used to play in teed off at 8:00. The range opened at 8:00. If you wanted to warm up a little before tee off, you had to go out onto the range with a bucket and pick up a few balls that people mishit. Yeah, that's what you did because the desk wouldn't give you a token at 7:30.

This is the problem I have. They leave keys to the carts for members who play early, but not to the ball shed because that's also club storage. I've never thought about actually picking up balls out on the range to warm up. I guess I've been too busy cursing the person who hit the half of a bucket I left there the night before to actually solve the problem so pragmatically.

 

[V14_Heels]

Dude. Why so defensive? You clearly started the thread looking for approval for something you knew was wrong. So you recognized what you were doing was wrong. Good for you. I am in no way referring to your OP. I am just extremely annoyed that I pay $$ for the privilege of using the range and playing on the course but some freeloaded thinks it’s perfectly acceptable to walk into the range and hand shag a half bucket of balls because he is too cheap to pay the $6 for a bucket.


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I really am not trying to be super defensive. At the end of the day I truly don't care, but this topic is definitely fascinating to me.

Our perspectives are just different. If some guy wants to go out there, pay his green fees, then go to the range and spend 15 extra minutes picking up balls one by one to save himself $6 bucks...rock on brother. I wouldn't care as the golf course owner, and I don't care as someone who paid $6 for his bag. Kudos to him for being resourceful.

 

[tahoebum]

I really am not trying to be super defensive. At the end of the day I truly don't care, but this topic is definitely fascinating to me.

Our perspectives are just different. If some guy wants to go out there, pay his green fees, then go to the range and spend 15 extra minutes picking up balls one by one to save himself $6 bucks...rock on brother. I wouldn't care as the golf course owner, and I don't care as someone who paid $6 for his bag. Kudos to him for being resourceful.

You obviously think it’s ok to not pay the six bucks if it’s easy to pick them up yourself. I disagree completely. I’m not surprised anyone thinks this way, lot’s of Americans expect free stuff that someone else pays for whether it’s medical care, parks, etc. Our private course has a problem in the spring with a couple guys that come and use the range that aren’t members. The one end of the rang is a long ways from the clubhouse but very close to a road so they just drive in, park, and start hitting balls until they get kicked out.

The last course I was a member at spent over $20k each year replacing worn out range balls. Each time you hit a range ball part of it’s useful life is being used up. On the indoor simulator over the winter they didn’t have to keep many balls for use in the simulator. I didn’t have that many shots on the simulator, but over the winter I split 4 or 5 in half on a normal iron shot because they had been hit so many times. There are also obvious cost paying someone to pick up the balls, mow the range, property taxes on the land that the range sits on, etc. Luckily the majority of golfers don’t have that same moral compass. If they did that bucket of balls would be ten bucks, not six.

 

[V14_Heels]

You obviously think it’s ok to not pay the six bucks if it’s easy to pick them up yourself. I disagree completely. I’m not surprised anyone thinks this way, lot’s of Americans expect free stuff that someone else pays for whether it’s medical care, parks, etc. Our private course has a problem in the spring with a couple guys that come and use the range that aren’t members. The one end of the rang is a long ways from the clubhouse but very close to a road so they just drive in, park, and start hitting balls until they get kicked out.

The last course I was a member at spent over $20k each year replacing worn out range balls. Each time you hit a range ball part of it’s useful life is being used up. On the indoor simulator over the winter they didn’t have to keep many balls for use in the simulator. I didn’t have that many shots on the simulator, but over the winter I split 4 or 5 in half on a normal iron shot because they had been hit so many times. There are also obvious cost paying someone to pick up the balls, mow the range, property taxes on the land that the range sits on, etc. Luckily the majority of golfers don’t have that same moral compass. If they did that bucket of balls would be ten bucks, not six.

Lets realistically walk through all your costs...
1. The life expectancy of the ball and a single hit costs money - I guess I can't argue this one. You are right the life expectancy is trimmed short when someone hits the ball a single time for free, but we are talking fractions of a penny on the dollar. And what else contributes to this? Do you good hitters that drive the ball 300 yards put more wear on the ball than someone who drives it 75? Maybe the range should charge based off handicap or average range distance then?
2. Mow the range - They have to mow the range in the exact same way no matter what. The guy who grabbed 10 balls from the front of the range and hit them for free is adding no more cost to mowing.
3. Property taxes - See "Mow the range". They are paying that no matter what.

But my scenario isn't what you illustrated at the top. Nor the analogies you used. My scenario is you are a regular contributing member to the golf course. You're a regular at the golf course who spends regular money there. That's the difference for me. Even if you go back to my original post I was a contributing member to the course. I had spent $400 dollars in lessons, and had played the course multiple times. I'm not some dude just showing up, hopping out at the range, trying to dodge the staff. It's never been like that. i legitimately didn't understand how the bucket worked, because it was odd to me. But like i have said numerous times I've stopped that altogether.

We have 2 size bags of balls. A smaller warmup bag (maybe 25 balls) and then a bigger bag at like 75. Usually if I'm going there to golf a round, I buy the warmup. If I get through those warmup balls, and I think to myself I'd really like to hit 5 off of my Hybrid yet, I'm 100% gonna grab 5 balls that are close to me. I'm not going in to buy another bag of warmup balls, and honestly it doesn't really have a whole lot to do with cost, it's the convenience. It sounds like we probably differ there...

 

[tahoebum]

Lets realistically walk through all your costs...
1. The life expectancy of the ball and a single hit costs money - I guess I can't argue this one. You are right the life expectancy is trimmed short when someone hits the ball a single time for free, but we are talking fractions of a penny on the dollar. And what else contributes to this? Do you good hitters that drive the ball 300 yards put more wear on the ball than someone who drives it 75? Maybe the range should charge based off handicap or average range distance then?
2. Mow the range - They have to mow the range in the exact same way no matter what. The guy who grabbed 10 balls from the front of the range and hit them for free is adding no more cost to mowing.
3. Property taxes - See "Mow the range". They are paying that no matter what.

But my scenario isn't what you illustrated at the top. Nor the analogies you used. My scenario is you are a regular contributing member to the golf course. You're a regular at the golf course who spends regular money there. That's the difference for me. Even if you go back to my original post I was a contributing member to the course. I had spent $400 dollars in lessons, and had played the course multiple times. I'm not some dude just showing up, hopping out at the range, trying to dodge the staff. It's never been like that. i legitimately didn't understand how the bucket worked, because it was odd to me. But like i have said numerous times I've stopped that altogether.

We have 2 size bags of balls. A smaller warmup bag (maybe 25 balls) and then a bigger bag at like 75. Usually if I'm going there to golf a round, I buy the warmup. If I get through those warmup balls, and I think to myself I'd really like to hit 5 off of my Hybrid yet, I'm 100% gonna grab 5 balls that are close to me. I'm not going in to buy another bag of warmup balls, and honestly it doesn't really have a whole lot to do with cost, it's the convenience. It sounds like we probably differ there...

If you had kids would you teach them to do this? If the answer is no, it’s wrong. If the answer is yes, I hope you are not a parent.

 

[OGputtnfool]

You obviously think it’s ok to not pay the six bucks if it’s easy to pick them up yourself. I disagree completely. I’m not surprised anyone thinks this way, lot’s of Americans expect free stuff that someone else pays for whether it’s medical care, parks, etc. Our private course has a problem in the spring with a couple guys that come and use the range that aren’t members. The one end of the rang is a long ways from the clubhouse but very close to a road so they just drive in, park, and start hitting balls until they get kicked out.

The last course I was a member at spent over $20k each year replacing worn out range balls. Each time you hit a range ball part of it’s useful life is being used up. On the indoor simulator over the winter they didn’t have to keep many balls for use in the simulator. I didn’t have that many shots on the simulator, but over the winter I split 4 or 5 in half on a normal iron shot because they had been hit so many times. There are also obvious cost paying someone to pick up the balls, mow the range, property taxes on the land that the range sits on, etc. Luckily the majority of golfers don’t have that same moral compass. If they did that bucket of balls would be ten bucks, not six.

I can agree with most of that. Please, though, let's not veer off into the the extortion that is property taxes.

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[obedt]

if balls are meant for paying members then imo its then wrong for the non playing member to go and use them.

if it just a matter of a warm up bucket left incomplete then I see no issue at all. Whether its my often frequented course/s or my frequented practice range center. Most all people leaving an unfinished bucket expect another to then finish hitting them. If im hitting a warmup bucket and am called to the tee, the first thing Im doing is leaving them behind for anyone to finish. If I m at the range and don't finish my 100 ball bucket Im leaving them for the next whoever wants them.

Ive supported my county courses with so many greens fees and my range with so many bucket fees for so many years both that I have no issue accepting unfinished balls that are there. I don't go and hit with that intent. I buy my warm up and if the range buy my token. But I will hit whats left over from another in addition. On rare occasion at the course If there are a few balls one left behind and I hadn't planned on hiting a warmup I have no issue hitting those 6,8,10 balls whatever if I decide to. I feel nothing at all guilty about any if this. In fact I think the course is ridiculous with their 6 dollar 20 ball warm up. With greens fees purchased imo a warmup should be just a couple bucks.

All that said I do not ever go to my course with the intent of hitting leftover balls nor of course do I do that at my range practice center. Im a paying customer and I go with intent to pay for what I use. But just that sometimes I get some extra and sometimes I leave mine for another.

I see things the same way. Just yesterday I left a bunch from my basket out there, expecting someone to hit them.

 

[pilot25]

One thing that hasn’t been discussed or talked about is clean up of left over balls on the range. What’s the labor burden?

I worked at a course when I was a kid and I loved it when people picked up the balls, off the short game area, and took them to the range. I had to clean up the short game area every hour and it was hard to keep up when I was tasked with other things. Taught me time management though.

Side note: I hate courses that charge for "warm up" balls and avoid those courses. Additionally, I won't go to places where the balls are dispensed out of a machine. All part of the experience that is taken away with nickel and diming and then having to self serve.

 

[wubears71]

Golf courses struggle to stay in the black. That is a fact and the reason so many close every year. The difference between losing money and breaking even comes down to the add ons - golf cart fees, range balls, food and beverage sales.



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[OGputtnfool]

I worked at a course when I was a kid and I loved it when people picked up the balls, off the short game area, and took them to the range. I had to clean up the short game area every hour and it was hard to keep up when I was tasked with other things. Taught me time management though.

Side note: I hate courses that charge for "warm up" balls and avoid those courses. Additionally, I won't go to places where the balls are dispensed out of a machine. All part of the experience that is taken away with nickel and diming and then having to self serve.

What's wrong with balls out of a machine? I, actually, prefer to get them out of the machine. It saves me 8.625% on my range balls.

 

[V14_Heels]

If you had kids would you teach them to do this? If the answer is no, it’s wrong. If the answer is yes, I hope you are not a parent.

If this is the criteria you are using to judge the moral compass around whether or not a person should have kids...YIKES! The planet will be over in about 100 years because literally no one can have kids.

There's all sorts of things I teach my child, but at the end of the day they use their personal experiences and perspective to determine these things that are NOT black and white like some are trying to make them out to be.