Zapping Short Game Shots

[DataDude]

I shot a pin from 37 yards today.

Forgive me.

Three lashes in the public square...unless you chipped it tight, then you only get one lash LOL!

4 feet. Made the birdie.

One lash it is!!

 

[DataDude]

I wish I could, but the fact is that a lot of people struggle with depth perception & estimating distances.

I will say that I'm getting a little better at it this year. Know why? Because I laser all these short yardages, I'm starting to get a bit more feel for what a 60 yard shot looks like vs a 40 yard shot, etc. But I still mess up a lot.

Maybe someday I will develop this to a much higher degree - but I kinda doubt it.

The hard part for me is my course has upside down saucer greens and they are usually 25-30 yard diameter circlish shapes. It makes a difference when the pin is front and back whether I am 20 or I am 25 away. That could be off the green or on and putting. Also when I go to a newer course that has greens that match the contour of the land and they are 40-50 yards deep and/or wide it is much more difficult to fix my depth perception. What looks like 25 on a course with big huge greens I can zap sometimes and find out it is actually 40, whereas what looks like 50 on a course with tiny greens I can zap and find out it is actually 35.

 

[DataDude]

QUESTION:
When you laser the pin-Do you shoot the flag?
I ask because I was playing with a guy the other day and I use my GPSand he used a laser. Every time he was longer. So I got to thinking, if he shoots the flag, his shot will be over the flag-CORRECT?

No, if you think about line of sight and triangles, if the middle of the pin is eye level, the flag and hole would both be exactly the same distance away. The further above eye level the hole is then zapping the flag will give you a longer measure than the hole and that get's more extreme the higher you go, but it can only exaggerate the measure by at most the length of the flag which is about 6' or 2 yards (this would be if the hole was directly above your head which is an impossible scenario). Likewise when the hole is below eye level zapping the flag will give you a slightly shorter measure than the hole and again the max miss is the length of the flag (2 yards) and that would be if the hole was directly below your feet. Either way you slice it, the biggest miss on most golf courses would be around 2' so nothing to worry about or to cause a big miss in measurement.

 

[Buster1]

I laser the flag of every shot inside 100 yds. The short game is where you score, and it’s more vital to know those short distances vs mid and long iron distances.

 

[rollin]

I laser the flag of every shot inside 100 yds. The short game is where you score, and it’s more vital to know those short distances vs mid and long iron distances.

so knowing the yardage to be able to pick the right club and hit a ball close as possible from 170 is not as vital as hitting one close from 85? Or for that matter hitting the green from 170 in the first place? vs not because you thought you were at 155 and came up short or thought it was 180+ and came up long? How about knowing layup yardages on a par 5 or after a bad tee shot on a par4? etc,etc, I mean the entire game of golf is about nothing but distance measurements from the first tee box for everything right until our last putt on 18. hazards, oob, doglegs, carries, layups, recovery shots, etc,etc,etc its all always about nothing but knowing distances.

And on another note....IDK but last time I checked my score was the result of all the shots I took on a given hole.

 

[ntanygd760]

so knowing the yardage to be able to pick the right club and hit a ball close as possible from 170 is not as vital as hitting one close from 85? Or for that matter hitting the green from 170 in the first place? vs not because you thought you were at 155 and came up short or thought it was 180+ and came up long? How about knowing layup yardages on a par 5 or after a bad tee shot on a par4? etc,etc, I mean the entire game of golf is about nothing but distance measurements from the first tee box for everything right until our last putt on 18. hazards, oob, doglegs, carries, layups, recovery shots, etc,etc,etc its all always about nothing but knowing distances.

And on another note....IDK but last time I checked my score was the result of all the shots I took on a given hole.

He is saying that he has a much better chance of hitting exactly 78 yards so he gets the exact yard but he does't have the ability to hit exactly 168 so if you say 170 doesn't make a difference. I think at least

 

[Buster1]

Yes, what ntanygd said. And according to most pros, short game shots account for 10-15 strokes per round (for average mid-hc). Dave Pelz proved that nailing your short game wedges has the largest impact on scoring.

I know my yardages for every club and all my wedges with multiple partial swings too. I’m just agreeing with the golf giants that those short game shots are more important, and more critical if you can hit them precisely. I’m also definitely more accurate (in distance) with my wedges than with my irons.

 

[golfinnut]

For all you laser Fanatics... bring your laser to Topgolf?

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[rollin]

Yes, what ntanygd said. And according to most pros, short game shots account for 10-15 strokes per round (for average mid-hc). Dave Pelz proved that nailing your short game wedges has the largest impact on scoring.

I know my yardages for every club and all my wedges with multiple partial swings too. I’m just agreeing with the golf giants that those short game shots are more important, and more critical if you can hit them precisely. I’m also definitely more accurate (in distance) with my wedges than with my irons.

I can certainly see why you would want exact yardages with the short ones via your laser vs longer shots. But as for which is most important? Its all important. Just go and be a player who is constantly sitting 3,4 strokes (or even more) and only then being near enough a green to chip or pitch because they just cant get from the tee to near enough the green with any efficiency on any regular basis. All those mishits count every bit as much as any short shot and are also a huge detriment towards score.

What your describing is only relevant when a player regularly and efficiently gets himself near enough the greens in the regulation amount of strokes on a fairly consistent basis. It all just depends where one struggles the most from. Placing a tee shot in the woods and or chunking an approach 12 yrds all have the same affect on score as missing a pitch does. In fact the tee shot can even cost one 2 strokes. The strokes count for the same thing equally and none of them are any less detrimental nor less important to scoring than any other.

All ready efficient enough at those parts? well then yes , sharpening the short stuff is huge. And its still huge even when the other stuff is bad because it helps limit even worse troubles. But more important? Imo its all just as important as the other cause it all counts the same.

What would pelz say to you if your constantly sitting 3,4 or even 5 and only then be pitching on? Would he tell you not to concern with the 12,16,19, 20 costly strokes from misses and penalties from tees and with approaches? And that fixing that is not important? or that this stuff has no affect on your score? if he does he should be institutionalized.

 

[InTheRough]

I'll laser everything unless it's a short pitch or chip.

 

[OGputtnfool]

I actually lasered a putt yesterday. I got 24y with the laser and paced off 23 by foot. I'm ok with that.

Full disclosure: I don't do this often, but I was on 17, there was a pair on the 18th tee waiting to hit, and no one was behind me.

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[Et Tu Brute?]

I actually lasered a putt yesterday. I got 24y with the laser and paced off 23 by foot. I'm ok with that.

Full disclosure: I don't do this often, but I was on 17, there was a pair on the 18th tee waiting to hit, and no one was behind me.

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I think I've only ever lasered one putt in my life. I was playing nine holes by myself using an antique Bullseye putter. Can't really putt a lick with that thing but I happened to roll one in from clear across a Par 3 green. I was curious just how long that sucker was so I walked back to where I'm putt from and laser the flag. I got 31 yards so I guess it was 93 feet, give or take. Easily in my personal top five longest putts, ever.

FWIW, I paced it off while walking back to the spot with the laser. It was 33 paces so my usual assumption of one yard per pace seems fairly accurate. Which is good to know I guess.

 

[DataDude]

so knowing the yardage to be able to pick the right club and hit a ball close as possible from 170 is not as vital as hitting one close from 85? Or for that matter hitting the green from 170 in the first place? vs not because you thought you were at 155 and came up short or thought it was 180+ and came up long? How about knowing layup yardages on a par 5 or after a bad tee shot on a par4? etc,etc, I mean the entire game of golf is about nothing but distance measurements from the first tee box for everything right until our last putt on 18. hazards, oob, doglegs, carries, layups, recovery shots, etc,etc,etc its all always about nothing but knowing distances.

And on another note....IDK but last time I checked my score was the result of all the shots I took on a given hole.

From 170 I don't need to know where the pin is. I need to know the distance to the center of the green and I add 5 to that and pick that distance. Then I pick a line that I think will avoid danger and most likely land on the surface, but if it misses it will be the easiest chip (aka avoid being short sided). I am hitting a 5 iron from 170. I may hit that 180 or 150 and it could be a high flier or a low runner depending on how I catch it. For my game zapping the flag from 170 most often is not only unnecessary it is imprudent and will most likely cost me strokes instead of gaining them because I am aiming at pins instead of playing smart golf.

On the other hand I can hit my 54* within 5 yards of my target distance anywhere inside 50 yards. So knowing whether it is 40 or 50 makes a huge difference. When I eyeball something and then zap it I would say I am withing 5 yards of actual distance about 1/2 the time, between 5 and 10 yards off about 1/3 of the time, and more than 10 yards off the rest of the time. That can be a lot of shots in an 18 hole round for someone who does not have a great long game but has an excellent short game.

 

[Et Tu Brute?]

From 170 I don't need to know where the pin is. I need to know the distance to the center of the green and I add 5 to that and pick that distance. Then I pick a line that I think will avoid danger and most likely land on the surface, but if it misses it will be the easiest chip (aka avoid being short sided). I am hitting a 5 iron from 170. I may hit that 180 or 150 and it could be a high flier or a low runner depending on how I catch it. For my game zapping the flag from 170 most often is not only unnecessary it is imprudent and will most likely cost me strokes instead of gaining them because I am aiming at pins instead of playing smart golf.

I see this sort of statement all the time and it seems to me you're either playing courses with very boring flat greens or else your "smart golf" isn't as smart as you might think.

At my home course, in a given round there will be at least a handful of front hole locations where 10-15 short of the green in the fairway is a straightforward bump and run then a putt but being 20 feet above the hole makes a 2-putt unlikely. There's a couple of greens where if you hit to the back of the green when the hole is cut on the front, unless you hit the hole dead center your next shot will be a chip from the fairway short of the green.

Those are extreme cases but on any course with severe back-to-front tilt or courses like ours where most greens are split into two or three discrete sections, knowing what section of the green the hole is cut is crucial. From 170 yards I might pull any of three different clubs and aim in very different directions depending on the day's hole location. And I'm not talking about taking on risks to try and squeeze a 170-yard shot in 10 feet from the hole. I'm taking about avoiding risks of hitting it somewhere that bogey will be tricky and even double is not guaranteed.

I play about 3x a week year round on average and have played the same course a couple thousand times. If it mattered not at all where the hole was cut each day, I'd have to go find a different place to play. Just aiming for the middle of the green to get a flat putt in any direction would be very dull after a while.

 

[DataDude]

I see this sort of statement all the time and it seems to me you're either playing courses with very boring flat greens or else your "smart golf" isn't as smart as you might think.

At my home course, in a given round there will be at least a handful of front hole locations where 10-15 short of the green in the fairway is a straightforward bump and run then a putt but being 20 feet above the hole makes a 2-putt unlikely. There's a couple of greens where if you hit to the back of the green when the hole is cut on the front, unless you hit the hole dead center your next shot will be a chip from the fairway short of the green.

Those are extreme cases but on any course with severe back-to-front tilt or courses like ours where most greens are split into two or three discrete sections, knowing what section of the green the hole is cut is crucial. From 170 yards I might pull any of three different clubs and aim in very different directions depending on the day's hole location. And I'm not talking about taking on risks to try and squeeze a 170-yard shot in 10 feet from the hole. I'm taking about avoiding risks of hitting it somewhere that bogey will be tricky and even double is not guaranteed.

I play about 3x a week year round on average and have played the same course a couple thousand times. If it mattered not at all where the hole was cut each day, I'd have to go find a different place to play. Just aiming for the middle of the green to get a flat putt in any direction would be very dull after a while.

My course has circular upside down saucer shaped greens that are about 25ish yard diameter and they are fast and hard. I mentioned that earlier. We are in southern indiana so it's pretty flat here. There aren't any tiers and there aren't any sections to the greens. The challenges are avoiding water and bunkers. Once you're safely close to the green then attack the hole. Its parkland style golf. If you aim at the flag and it's on the far back, far right, or far left on this course your ball is not staying on the green if you aim at the flag and miss even by 2 or 3 yards in 2 or 3 of the directions. Think Pinehurst type greens.

Now we also play some local muni's that were designed by AW Tillinghast. These greens have a lot of variety and the shape of the green and location of the flag is quite important, but I have a GOS watch and those flags are color coded. I still don't need to zap from 170 out. I'm just not that good at golf.

I did zap from afar at a course I played a few weeks ago because it had huge greens with tiers and sections and the flags were all one color. There was also a lot of elevation change. Then I needed more guidance so I think this more what you are talking about and I understand that. That said it's more helpful to me on short shots that I can actually execute the differences in yardage, but my short game is strong and many people I play with just can't do partial shots at all so I see why they may think it's silly to zap those shots. My buddy used to make fun of me too, but he has seen me drop dimes enough to know it makes a difference.

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[Et Tu Brute?]

A lot of the older guys I know who play 5-6x a week have eyesight that's not what it once was. They tend to pause for a moment at the 150 marker and shoot the flag. If they get 160+ they know the hole is back or if it's 140 they know it's up.

At least one of them I know doesn't even shoot the actual distance when he gets to the ball. He's played the course well over 10,000 times and knows instinctively where he is relative to the green. He only owns the laser for that one trick of finding out if it's front/middle/back. He has a great mental map of the course and how his club selections fit in but with poor eyesight one flagstick looks just like another (even the ones I can clearly see are front or back).