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So this got brought up tonight. If the ball ends up here what is the rule? Since it’s in a hazard do you have to leave it lie or do you get relief from the path??

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Rules Question

As far as I can tell, that is marked as a hazard and you take the penalty and drop or play as it lies.

We have a course we frequent that has a wash marked as a lateral hazard. There rarely is water there, but people always get confused. Some will tell you that if you hit it in there, you MUST take a drop. Others will see a tire track in there and take free relief. I have played it just like above: if I am in it and can play as it lies, I will. If not, I take my penalty and lateral drop.


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That's a strange one. if that is a cart path? Then you are entitled to take (free) nearest point of relief which cannot be closer to the hole. Imo that means you can drop behind the path without penalty. The fact that that is also a hazard imo is not relevant because a ball can be played from a hazard. So if the cart path is in the hazard and you can play it from there you can then imo get nearst point of relief and that is.... still behind you and with no penalty.
 
No relief without penalty stroke.
 
Odd situation but a hazard is a hazard. Perhaps hit it off the cart path with someone else's club... wait, that's a penalty too. Better take the drop and stroke I believe.
 
No relief without penalty stroke.

I don’t think it matters if it’s a cart path. The ball lies within the clearly defined and marked penalty area. Either play it as it lies or take relief with a penalty stroke.
 
I don’t think it matters if it’s a cart path. The ball lies within the clearly defined and marked penalty area. Either play it as it lies or take relief with a penalty stroke.
But (and IDK but just saying) cart path allows relief. Nothing says cart path in a hazard.
if there was relief room from the cartpath in the hazard would we get that? if so then why not nearest relief from path even if out of the hazard?

But I guess can see hazd is a hazdd and all else matters not.
 
I don’t think it matters if it’s a cart path. The ball lies within the clearly defined and marked penalty area. Either play it as it lies or take relief with a penalty stroke.

That is what he said isn't it.


Honestly I would be pretty happy to have that good of a lie in a hazard.
 
Conundrum for sure and I have no idea. I would be very interested in how a rules official would handle this one in a big televised tour event. I think the official would catch a bunch of flack regardless of ruling. Course probably should've painted the very edge of the cart path. Crazy that they went a foot out onto the path to mark it. Wonder if 2 club lengths from the line is even enough to prevent from having to drop on the path? Then would conceivably have to drop again for path relief.
 
This would be a good one to send into the Rules guy in either Golf Magazine or Golf Digest, don’t remember which one publishes it.


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Ply it as it lies, or drop with penalty. You could drop it on the path and then take relief, or keep the spot where the ball crossed the line between you and the hole and drop back on that line.
 
:popcorn:
 
So this got brought up tonight. If the ball ends up here what is the rule? Since it’s in a hazard do you have to leave it lie or do you get relief from the path??

ec45acd5d507f629cd0c35f7338e173c.jpg

Gut reaction... no relief as you're within a penalty area.

Follow up reaction... that's either a horrible location to draw a line, or something they should have a local rule for. Bummer.
 
Follow up reaction... that's either a horrible location to draw a line, or something they should have a local rule for. Bummer.

My guess is that the guy with the spray paint can either knows nothing about the Rules of Golf, figured that no ball would come to rest on the cart path, or he/she thought that the red line could double as a "lane marker" (to keep golf carts from hitting the rocks).
 
Gut reaction... no relief as you're within a penalty area.

Follow up reaction... that's either a horrible location to draw a line, or something they should have a local rule for. Bummer.
yea, Im thinking this was a total oversight of one marking a hazard but doesnt really understand the whole thing.
That hazard should be the very edge of the path. In fact id even )if possible not even paint a line but simply put red steaks agains the edge of the pavement. Whatever the case the cart path on the whole should not be part of the hazard at all for sure. That's just a mistake.
 
Rules Question

I agree with those that suggest it is not marked correctly. That said, as I mentioned above, we have had people try to claim tire tracks in a hazard are free relief. The following rule was cited telling us that there is no relief in a hazard.

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Ply it as it lies, or drop with penalty. You could drop it on the path and then take relief, or keep the spot where the ball crossed the line between you and the hole and drop back on that line.
I would agree this is the correct answer.
 
For the record, that wasn't anyones ball that we were playing with. We were riding by and seen the lines and my partner stopped the cart and goes "ok, so what if" and puts a ball down. I was like...hhmmmm lets ask THPers!

Even though I don't want to agree, I agree its play it as it lies or take a stroke if you move it out of the hazard even though its on a path. My opinion one would get relief from that but technicality of the rules would take over.
 
For the record, that wasn't anyones ball that we were playing with. We were riding by and seen the lines and my partner stopped the cart and goes "ok, so what if" and puts a ball down. I was like...hhmmmm lets ask THPers!

Even though I don't want to agree, I agree its play it as it lies or take a stroke if you move it out of the hazard even though its on a path. My opinion one would get relief from that but technicality of the rules would take over.

I bet if you show that picture to the pro shop, they would want that line moved. It would be much better if the line started at the rocks or if it marked the entire path as being in the hazard.


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I bet if you show that picture to the pro shop, they would want that line moved. It would be much better if the line started at the rocks or if it marked the entire path as being in the hazard.


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I believe there is a good chance that particular course has had past issues with carts driving too close to the rocks and, or,, hitting the rocks. So, it's possible the red line is where it is to serve two purposes, that is defining the hazard but also an attempt at keeping carts off the rocks.
 
I believe there is a good chance that particular course has had past issues with carts driving too close to the rocks and, or,, hitting the rocks. So, it's possible the red line is where it is to serve two purposes, that is defining the hazard but also an attempt at keeping carts off the rocks.

Probably so. But in that case it seems like a better solution would be a wider more visible stripe (not red) and a couple/few red stakes wedged in where the rocks meet the path.
 
I believe there is a good chance that particular course has had past issues with carts driving too close to the rocks and, or,, hitting the rocks. So, it's possible the red line is where it is to serve two purposes, that is defining the hazard but also an attempt at keeping carts off the rocks.

Not so much that. There hasn't been any issues of carts getting to close. It is the weekend for the club championship so that's why all is painted. But I agree, instead of painting it on the asphalt I think stakes in the rocks would be more appropriate or paint a few rocks red. But, that's where the line is so its marked hazard so it is what it is if it lies there
 
Not so much that. There hasn't been any issues of carts getting to close. It is the weekend for the club championship so that's why all is painted. But I agree, instead of painting it on the asphalt I think stakes in the rocks would be more appropriate or paint a few rocks red. But, that's where the line is so its marked hazard so it is what it is if it lies there

Stakes "within the rocks" would not be correct. If there is room between the rocks and the cart path to embed stakes, that might be ok, but again carts might then hit the stakes.
My guess is that the reason the guy spray painted so far from the rocks is that he did not want any red over spray to get on the rocks, and he knew that the chances of a ball coming to rest on the path (between the rocks and red line as in your photograph) is extremely remote.
 
Conundrum for sure and I have no idea. I would be very interested in how a rules official would handle this one in a big televised tour event. I think the official would catch a bunch of flack regardless of ruling. Course probably should've painted the very edge of the cart path. Crazy that they went a foot out onto the path to mark it. Wonder if 2 club lengths from the line is even enough to prevent from having to drop on the path? Then would conceivably have to drop again for path relief.

Some comments from a local rules official:

1) The answers which indicated there is no relief are correct. The ball lies within a penalty area. There is no relief for interference from an immovable obstruction in a penalty area. Even if you're standing on the cart path outside the penalty area to play the shot, that does not matter. Where the ball lies is the deciding factor. You may play it as it lies or take relief from the penalty area with a 1-stroke penalty.

2) Once the ball is outside the penalty area, the rules for free relief from an immovable obstruction apply again. If you drop your ball and it ends up on the cart path outside the penalty area, you may proceed with the procedure for obtaining free relief from the cart path. Or, as others have said, you may take "back on a line" relief and go as far back as you wish. It is important to note that "on a line back" is on a line formed by where the ball crossed the boundary of the penalty area and the flagstick, NOT the "line of flight" as the ball entered the penalty area. This is a common misunderstanding of many golfers.

3) The reason for marking being on the cart path is there is no space between the margin of the penalty area and the obstruction. A penalty area needs its margin to be clearly defined. It's not possible to paint across the rocks and have a clearly defined line. So, in this case, the staff chose to mark on the cart path. I agree they could have marked closer to the edge (and it appears they did when it was formerly defined as a yellow penalty area). If the edge of the cart path is always well-defined, the committee could also have chosen to say "the edge of the cart path defines the penalty area." However, that can be confusing for players and result in improper relief and a mess to deal with.

4) You're absolutely right that such a situation, would create a great deal of controversy even though the rules official would have done nothing wrong. Such is the state of golf rules. After years of people complaining about the pace of play, one of the changes for 2019 was 3 minutes to look for a lost ball. Almost everybody applauded that change. What's the first thing I hear during the Open coverage? "Graham McDowell was forced to take a penalty because the rules official timed his 3 minutes. That was ridiculous and wrong that he had to take a penalty. He barely had time to look. Someone needs to apply common sense to the time allowed to search for a lost ball. In short, you just can't win. Graham was correctly penalized and then people were angry he was penalized.
 
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