How do You Quantify Slope?
rollin
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the problem with this question is that slope is only relative to the given course and its rating. It is possible to have a higher slope on a course that is easier than the other because its not necessarily how difficult the course is but its how much more difficult it is for the bogey payer vs the scratch player on the given course.
A course can technically be rated higher than another yet have a lower slope rating but is still the more difficult course vs one that is rated lower but with a higher slope. Again, because its not how hard the course is but is only how much harder it is for the bogey player vs the scratch player. A course rated 73 lets say has a slope of 127 and yet another course may be rated 70 yet have a slope of 130. The 73 course should still be the harder course to play. The rating number (not the slope) is imo far more telling of a courses difficulty. The scratch player (in those examples) is excepted a 73 vs a 70 so that course is harder. Then after that it becomes about how much more harder it may be for the bogey player vs that scratch player.
A course can technically be rated higher than another yet have a lower slope rating but is still the more difficult course vs one that is rated lower but with a higher slope. Again, because its not how hard the course is but is only how much harder it is for the bogey player vs the scratch player. A course rated 73 lets say has a slope of 127 and yet another course may be rated 70 yet have a slope of 130. The 73 course should still be the harder course to play. The rating number (not the slope) is imo far more telling of a courses difficulty. The scratch player (in those examples) is excepted a 73 vs a 70 so that course is harder. Then after that it becomes about how much more harder it may be for the bogey player vs that scratch player.
As said above slope is a rating for a bogey golfer and the course rating is how difficult it is for the scratch golfer. Higher slope ratings almost always mean that the course is more beautiful and more interesting to play but not necessarily more difficult for me. Course rating gives me a better idea of the scoring difficulty. The courses where I’m a member have slope ratings from the shorter tees(6400) of 137 and 139 and I rarely play a course with a slope under 130.
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As a bogey golfer the slope tells me a lot about the length of the course. For instance anything over 130 I know I am going to be above 90 and if I don't bring it I will be in danger of 100. Anything in the 120's I usually believe I have a shot at breaking 90 and playing into the 80's. It seems to me that the ratings go up as a course gets tighter and requires more accuracy and precision while the slope goes up as a course gets longer and demands better ballstriking. I like courses with high ratings and low slopes, that's where I can get my best scores.
For me, I catch myself using 125 as the threshold for if I think a course will give myself a chance to shoot around my average score or not, plus or minus a stroke or two. Once we get into 130, I begin to expect my score to go up a little higher, but sometimes I actually perform better since I have already forced myself to realize it could be more difficult for me. As mentioned above, there's more to it than just slope, but it's a starting point my mind uses when looking at the scorecard.
Also, 'Course Handicaps' are based entirely on slope. They use 113 as the break even number. A course with a slope higher than 113 awards a handicap golfer more pops, lower than 113 = less pops. As for me, if I'm playing half way decent, I know I'll score a little worse on tees sloped above 130 and always look at tees sloped under 110 as a possible opportunity to go 'PB' low. I don't enjoy the real easy tees/courses as much. Seems like I need something around 120 or higher to be interesting and fun for me.
I agree with others, slope seems to correlate most to how long a course plays. So bogey golfers who typically mishit more shots are going to be impacted greater by higher sloped (aka longer) tracks than scratch players. They compensate for the added length better by simply hitting their longer clubs about as solidly as their clubs which are a little shorter.
I agree with others, slope seems to correlate most to how long a course plays. So bogey golfers who typically mishit more shots are going to be impacted greater by higher sloped (aka longer) tracks than scratch players. They compensate for the added length better by simply hitting their longer clubs about as solidly as their clubs which are a little shorter.
I've always broken it down this way:
Rating is how tough it is to make pars on average.
Slope is how likely you are to lose a golf ball.
It's overly simplified but seems to carry from course to course around here.
Rating is how tough it is to make pars on average.
Slope is how likely you are to lose a golf ball.
It's overly simplified but seems to carry from course to course around here.
rollin
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haha, kind of funny that way, but I like that analogy.
But still its technically only relative to the individual course and its scratch player rating.
And (to anyone reading the thread) lets not forget its also not an exact science because there is always "some" subjectivity of the evaluating group built in to the evaluation of the slope.
I like this and need to print it on a card for my bag!!
Interestingly, some of the highest sloped courses around here are the shorter ones. I guess it's the perils of mountain golf.
I have two courses that I play 90+% of my rounds on. One is a par 72 that is 6600 yards. It’s rated 72.0 with a 130 slope. THper Sean player this course with me (Oak Tree).
The other course is a par 71 that’s about 6500 yards. It’s rated (I forget the exact but this is very close) 68.3 with a slope of 106. This course is Brookside.
Every single person that has played both will tell you that Brookside is far harder. It’s not really even close. Outside of about 3 holes Oak Tree is about the easiest course you could possibly play. Wide open with large mostly flat greens. Brookside has some truly hard and tight holes and a few extremely tricky greens. It’s not the hardest course, but far harder than Oak Tree.
At one point 8 of my last 20 round had been played at each course. All 8 from Oak Tree counted towards my HC and not a single one from Brookside did.
So like rollin pointed out, there is definitely some variation in how courses are rated. No way is Oak Tree a 72/130 nor is Brookside a 68.3/106. Oak Tree should probably be about a 70/110 and Brookside a 70/120. Just from what I’ve seen from other courses, which who knows if they’re rated right either.
The other course is a par 71 that’s about 6500 yards. It’s rated (I forget the exact but this is very close) 68.3 with a slope of 106. This course is Brookside.
Every single person that has played both will tell you that Brookside is far harder. It’s not really even close. Outside of about 3 holes Oak Tree is about the easiest course you could possibly play. Wide open with large mostly flat greens. Brookside has some truly hard and tight holes and a few extremely tricky greens. It’s not the hardest course, but far harder than Oak Tree.
At one point 8 of my last 20 round had been played at each course. All 8 from Oak Tree counted towards my HC and not a single one from Brookside did.
So like rollin pointed out, there is definitely some variation in how courses are rated. No way is Oak Tree a 72/130 nor is Brookside a 68.3/106. Oak Tree should probably be about a 70/110 and Brookside a 70/120. Just from what I’ve seen from other courses, which who knows if they’re rated right either.
Also a thing to remember, is that each tee will have a different CR and slope. If you want a tougher game, move back a box. If it's too tough, move up.
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Course rating and slope have been largely irrelevant to me. Maybe it's just the courses I play, but outside of length of the course there seems to be no rhyme or reason to ratings.
There are four 18 hole courses at my home club. The shortest has the lowest course and slope ratings but is super tight and forces thought on club selection off the tee. I can't hit driver or even 3 wood on most holes unless I'm playing the tips, there is just no room for error. One of the other courses with identical course and slope ratings is significantly easier because it's pretty straight forward on most holes with acceptable areas for misses.
There are four 18 hole courses at my home club. The shortest has the lowest course and slope ratings but is super tight and forces thought on club selection off the tee. I can't hit driver or even 3 wood on most holes unless I'm playing the tips, there is just no room for error. One of the other courses with identical course and slope ratings is significantly easier because it's pretty straight forward on most holes with acceptable areas for misses.
Et Tu Brute?
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Totally agree.
How long is the course is the single most important question. Then I need to know how often there are lost ball, OB or water hazards perilously close to my line of play.
All the other details that go into those two numbers (Course and Slope ratings) are meant to provide a summary of how a wide range of golfers will score on average. Not necessarily how the course will play for me.
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It’s not an individual thing. It’s a measurement of how much more difficult a course is for a typical bogey golfer compared to a scratch golfer. Scores are plotted on a chart and the line between scratch and bogey golf scores is marked. The more steep that line is the higher the slope rating (ie, how sloped is the line on the chart?).
Some golf course features mess with bogey golfers more than others; some of us handle those trouble spots better than others, which is why the slope rating on some courses seems crazy off.
ntanygd760
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This is a good simplified rule of thumb.