Why would us Amateurs play with anything that doesn't maximize forgiveness?

[Jaymo37]

Alright, I totally understand that every golfer plays whatever equipment optimizes their enjoyment of the game, within their own budgetary restrictions.

In thinking about another recent thread asking about enjoying the game while playing poorly. For me, playing well is a huge factor within my enjoyment of the game. I tortured myself for years trying to play clubs that didn't maximize my potential to score well. Despite being a fairly low handicap player, I have learned I definitely benefit from a GI or SGI iron. In playing my combo set of JPX 900's (HM and Forged) I found that I hit the HM irons really well, and struggled at times with the scoring irons. I've recently switched to the Ping G's and with the exception of one terribly hung over and ill prepared round, I've played really well with them and have felt super confident regardless of which Iron I pull out of the bag.

So I pose the question, knowing that we're all Amateurs here, and that none of us strike every shot pure, why would we not opt for more forgiveness?

 

[Snickerdog]

Ego!!!! We want to play irons that fit our eye and look pretty. Sometimes playing irons we shouldn't or that are beyond are reasonable capability it improves our game because we have to learn to hit them better.

 

[wubears71]

I play the JPX 900 forged and they are honestly pushing it on looks. The top line and offset while not terrible are still not ideal to my eye. I really just like the look of small heads, small top line and little offset. I want a set of Mizuno MP20 Leftie specials.

For me, I am actually really consistent on hitting the center of the face - so much that my 6i has that nice black mark there. It's face angle and path that are my issues at the moment.

 

[tomcat]

Exactly what David said, ego. Many times the most forgiving club isn’t the flashiest, or coolest looking. I think we all want something that looks good.

 

[MrDC]

Right, people like pretty things and golf clubs are no exception.

 

[Jaymo37]

I agree for the most part as it relates to Ego, and yes I'm sure we have a few excellent ball strikers, but nowadays we're seeing more and more pro's using irons with a lot of tech and forgiveness. When I see a pro like Jordan Spieth opting for AP's instead of the MB or CB's I questions why anyone would play the less forgiving options. Looking at the game only from a logic standpoint, I'd want as much forgiveness as I can get.

 

[bigskyirish]

I think depending on your game, it can be a balance. Personally, I'm not the longest player in the world, so I like some distance help. But I strike the ball solidly the majority the time, so I wouldn't necessarily see the best performance out of a max forgiveness club. More often than not, I wouldn't be using the forgiveness and I might be sacrificing some control (or at least distance control) to get it.

 

[GolfFest]

I had some more forgiving irons than I do now, as in ball speed retention, but I didn't hit near as many greens. A lot of the more forgiving irons are also low spin distance irons and I just haven't got along with those.

 

[OITW]

Good

Alright, I totally understand that every golfer plays whatever equipment optimizes their enjoyment of the game, within their own budgetary restrictions.

In thinking about another recent thread asking about enjoying the game while playing poorly. For me, playing well is a huge factor within my enjoyment of the game. I tortured myself for years trying to play clubs that didn't maximize my potential to score well. Despite being a fairly low handicap player, I have learned I definitely benefit from a GI or SGI iron. In playing my combo set of JPX 900's (HM and Forged) I found that I hit the HM irons really well, and struggled at times with the scoring irons. I've recently switched to the Ping G's and with the exception of one terribly hung over and ill prepared round, I've played really well with them and have felt super confident regardless of which Iron I pull out of the bag.

So I pose the question, knowing that we're all Amateurs here, and that none of us strike every shot pure, why would we not opt for more forgiveness?

Play what makes the game fun, and enjoyable, what looks good to you?

I’m playing my pink SGI irons and not scoring the best not that it’s the clubs - but they give me the best opportunity i just need to execute

also if your goal for golf isn’t about playing well - the gear doesn’t really matter

 

[wubears71]

I agree for the most part as it relates to Ego, and yes I'm sure we have a few excellent ball strikers, but nowadays we're seeing more and more pro's using irons with a lot of tech and forgiveness. When I see a pro like Jordan Spieth opting for AP's instead of the MB or CB's I questions why anyone would play the less forgiving options. Looking at the game only from a logic standpoint, I'd want as much forgiveness as I can get.

If I were Jordan Spieth or anyone else that had to make money playing this game, then I'll take all the tech I can get to help me out. But, as an amateur, while scoring low is important, it's just as important enjoying the equipment I'm doing it with. I'm not saying that I'll buy something that doesn't completely fit my game because it looks cool, but if I can pull off playing a set of blades and still play decent by my standards, then its a win-win for me.

 

[Jaymo37]

I think depending on your game, it can be a balance. Personally, I'm not the longest player in the world, so I like some distance help. But I strike the ball solidly the majority the time, so I wouldn't necessarily see the best performance out of a max forgiveness club. More often than not, I wouldn't be using the forgiveness and I might be sacrificing some control (or at least distance control) to get it.

Forgiveness and consistency aren't playing a 0 sum game. Why can't we have both?

 

[Et Tu Brute?]

Why? Because we're stupid, I guess.

Stupid explains a lot. And I can look around the golf course any day and see plenty of dumb golfers doing stupid stuff (or I can just look in the mirror every morning and see one of the dumbest).

 

[Jaymo37]

Good

Play what makes the game fun, and enjoyable, what looks good to you?

I’m playing my pink SGI irons and not scoring the best not that it’s the clubs - but they give me the best opportunity i just need to execute

also if your goal for golf isn’t about playing well - the gear doesn’t really matter

So that's definitely true as it relates to goals! I didn't even consider that.

 

[-CRW-]

Maximum forgiveness means different things, and not everyone needs every bit of "tech".

Offset can help get the hands ahead of the ball at impact and help provide time to square up the face. It can also cause hooks for some people.
Upright lie angles (even in woods) can cause the face to point left in an attempt to minimize the offline end results of curvature caused by an open face. It can also cause hooks for some people, or golf shots that start left and continue moving left.

These are just some examples of many. Just get fit and play what works best for you. Don't assume that someone isn't playing their best golf just because they aren't playing some SGI shovels.

 

[FreddieMac]

Because what is most forgiving for one golfer may not be the most forgiving for the next one. The other reason is because most advanced players are all about feel and soft. They claim they can feel the ball and work the ball better with less forgiving irons. Having played with a buddy that is scratch that moved from CBs to MBs and his scores dropped, he works the ball left to right, right to left, high, low, etc. I witness for years how his he could work those Zunos so much better than those DCIs. He went from a about 6 handicap to scratch after he switched, made a huge difference in game.

 

[Jaymo37]

Maximum forgiveness means different things, and not everyone needs every bit of "tech".

Offset can help get the hands ahead of the ball at impact and help provide time to square up the face. It can also cause hooks for some people.
Upright lie angles (even in woods) can cause the face to point left in an attempt to minimize the offline end results of curvature caused by an open face. It can also cause hooks for some people, or golf shots that start left and continue moving left.

These are just some examples of many. Just get fit and play what works best for you. Don't assume that someone isn't playing their best golf just because they aren't playing some SGI shovels.

I see what you're saying, and I'm not implying (or meaning to) that everyone has the same needs as it relates to maximizing potential to score. I'm only trying to say, that a lot of us may be limiting our potential to play well for reasons of vanity or ego.

 

[Jaymo37]

Because what is most forgiving for one golfer may not be the most forgiving for the next one. The other reason is because most advanced players are all about feel and soft. They claim they can feel the ball and work the ball better with less forgiving irons. Having played with a buddy that is scratch that moved from CBs to MBs and his scores dropped, he works the ball left to right, right to left, high, low, etc. I witness for years how his he could work those Zunos so much better than those DCIs. He went from a about 6 handicap to scratch after he switched, made a huge difference in game.

I would challenge the notion that only MB's can be "worked" in different directions. Working the ball is merely a function of the relationship between the face of the club and the path at which it enters / departs the impact zone. Yes the center of gravity and MOI can impact the amount of spin applied on various strikes, any modern club can be utilized to move the ball in different directions to the extent that would be needed on any kind of regular basis.

 

[-CRW-]

I see what you're saying, and I'm not implying (or meaning to) that everyone has the same needs as it relates to maximizing potential to score. I'm only trying to say, that a lot of us may be limiting our potential to play well for reasons of vanity or ego.

Maybe. I've never seen any detailed study on it. Only rumblings on golf forums.

 

[NullNomad]

For me it's about feel. It can be the most forgiving perfect club on the planet, but if it feels nasty as hell I'm not going to game it.

 

[3_putt]

Define forgiveness ? I came to conclusion that I want to improve my swing. Playing with the most forgiving clubs hinders this goal. I do not play with the real player’s clubs, but more on the middle of the scale.

 

[Jaymo37]

For me it's about feel. It can be the most forgiving perfect club on the planet, but if it feels nasty as hell I'm not going to game it.

So that's definitely a valid reason, if it doesn't feel good, I could certainly understand a mental block of sorts that prevents us from playing our best golf.

 

[-CRW-]

I would challenge the notion that only MB's can be "worked" in different directions. Working the ball is merely a function of the relationship between the face of the club and the path at which it enters / departs the impact zone. Yes the center of gravity and MOI can impact the amount of spin applied on various strikes, any modern club can be utilized to move the ball in different directions to the extent that would be needed on any kind of regular basis.

He didn't say "only" MB's can be worked. He said he witnessed someone work the ball better with blades versus a previous set of cavity backs.

Once you get past trying to keep the ball in play and moving towards the hole, some of the tech/forgiveness features can be a detriment.

 

[Jaymo37]

Define forgiveness ? I came to conclusion that I want to improve my swing. Playing with the most forgiving clubs hinders this goal. I do not play with the real player’s clubs, but more on the middle of the scale.

Can I ask how playing a forgiving club hinders the ability to improve? Could something like impact tape not provide the same feedback that maybe some of the lost "feel" in a more forgiving club doesn't?

 

[bigskyirish]

Forgiveness and consistency aren't playing a 0 sum game. Why can't we have both?

I think we can to a certain extent and I think there are some great options out there these days. But since the question is why don't amateurs play something that maximizes forgiveness, I guess my answer is that I don't think that max forgiveness is always the best option for every amateur.

Using Callaway irons as an example, I would definitely choose either Apex or Apex Pro over options like Apex MB or X Forged. Even though I can hit the center of the face most of the time with the more pro-style irons, I want the extra forgiveness and distance I can get with Apex or Apex Pro. But the max forgiveness option in Callaway's line is probably Big Bertha. And I don't think I can be as precise with Big Bertha as I can with Apex or Apex Pro, and I don't really need the added forgiveness of the Big Bertha because the other options have plenty for my game. So that's a reason I wouldn't opt for more forgiveness, even though the option is out there.

 

[ArmyGolf]

If an OEM one day makes a GI iron with no offset and that still offers a lot of backspin, I'd at least give it a try. Until then, I'll stick with my smaller irons that pack just enough forgiveness, pass the eye test, and allow me to control my ball.
Current market is saturated with GI and SGI irons that offer high speeds, high launch, and low spin. I just have so little distance consistency every time I try designs like that since I'm already such a low spin player.