Off Course: Shaft Flex and Club Building

Just listened to this one today and really enjoyed it, as it touched on a few things I had been pondering lately. I must admit, I read some of the comments here about how smart Jason was prior to listening to the episode and rolled my eyes a bit. Post podcast consumption, holy crap this guy is smart!

The only point of contention I have, and maybe I'm just not smart enough to get it, is regarding using too much epoxy. There is only a finite amount of epoxy that can physically fit in the hosel bore with the shaft installed. Let's call it 1 ml for the sake of discussion. If you use 10 ml of epoxy and 9 ml leaks out, you still have the same amount of epoxy bonding the shaft to the head.
 
Just listened to this one today and really enjoyed it, as it touched on a few things I had been pondering lately. I must admit, I read some of the comments here about how smart Jason was prior to listening to the episode and rolled my eyes a bit. Post podcast consumption, holy crap this guy is smart!

The only point of contention I have, and maybe I'm just not smart enough to get it, is regarding using too much epoxy. There is only a finite amount of epoxy that can physically fit in the hosel bore with the shaft installed. Let's call it 1 ml for the sake of discussion. If you use 10 ml of epoxy and 9 ml leaks out, you still have the same amount of epoxy bonding the shaft to the head.

I think they don’t want a lot of excess expoxy feeding up into the tip of the shaft. If you can avoid that I can’t see an issue either.
 
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I think they don’t want a lot of excess expoxy feeding up into the tip of the shaft. If you can avoid that I can’t see an issue either.
It's a weird thing, but it's absolutely real.

I've used standard set epoxy and had it creep every bit of 10 inches down the shaft, only to be a MASSIVE pain when it broke free (and rattled) and I had to disassemble to get what I thought was a broken shaft back to normal haha
 
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Just listened to this one today and really enjoyed it, as it touched on a few things I had been pondering lately. I must admit, I read some of the comments here about how smart Jason was prior to listening to the episode and rolled my eyes a bit. Post podcast consumption, holy crap this guy is smart!
yeah, that's the hard part. you don't want to oversell a perspective, but I really think Jason has earned that label, at least at my table.
 
Just listened to this one today and really enjoyed it, as it touched on a few things I had been pondering lately. I must admit, I read some of the comments here about how smart Jason was prior to listening to the episode and rolled my eyes a bit. Post podcast consumption, holy crap this guy is smart!

The only point of contention I have, and maybe I'm just not smart enough to get it, is regarding using too much epoxy. There is only a finite amount of epoxy that can physically fit in the hosel bore with the shaft installed. Let's call it 1 ml for the sake of discussion. If you use 10 ml of epoxy and 9 ml leaks out, you still have the same amount of epoxy bonding the shaft to the head.
Epoxy is much more rigid and brittle than the graphite or composite shafts. If it flows into the tip think of it as a spike going in the tip if the spike makes it past the hosel opening you have a shear point to break against with the stress of loading the shaft.
 
It's a weird thing, but it's absolutely real.

I've used standard set epoxy and had it creep every bit of 10 inches down the shaft, only to be a MASSIVE pain when it broke free (and rattled) and I had to disassemble to get what I thought was a broken shaft back to normal haha
Epoxy is much more rigid and brittle than the graphite or composite shafts. If it flows into the tip think of it as a spike going in the tip if the spike makes it past the hosel opening you have a shear point to break against with the stress of loading the shaft.

I get these points and now see why it would be an issue, but can't figure out how epoxy is getting that far into the shaft. It's also not something I had really considered before.
 
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I get these points and now see why it would be an issue, but can't figure out how epoxy is getting that far into the shaft. It's also not something I had really considered before.
A couple ways, some more extreme than others..

1- You fill the entire head/adapter with epoxy, as well as put it on the shaft, then shove it on... It's going to go through into the shaft.
2- You build out a couple adapters on shafts and let them dry adapter up.
 
I get these points and now see why it would be an issue, but can't figure out how epoxy is getting that far into the shaft. It's also not something I had really considered before.
Depends on the size of the opening in the tip as well as the amount of epoxy, poor practices by amateur and professional builders lead to early failures in the shafts I recently swapped tips in a shaft and had to remove 1 3/4” of epoxy on the interior of the shaft due to a poor build. If all the epoxy is added to the hosel but none to the shaft then the shaft is inserted it will travel the path of least resistance which is typically the opening of the shaft tip.
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Just got done listening and what a great show! It is really cool to hear the details on the shaft i am testing right now! Will have to listen again as there is a TON of detail in there. Nice job @Canadan
 
Sounds like Golf Pride needs to make a Z-Grip Cord Plus4.
 
It's a weird thing, but it's absolutely real.

I've used standard set epoxy and had it creep every bit of 10 inches down the shaft, only to be a MASSIVE pain when it broke free (and rattled) and I had to disassemble to get what I thought was a broken shaft back to normal haha

I always try to not have the epoxy not get into the bottom of the shaft so that might not happen. I agree there is nothing worse than having epoxy rattling around in the shaft.
 
A couple ways, some more extreme than others..

1- You fill the entire head/adapter with epoxy, as well as put it on the shaft, then shove it on... It's going to go through into the shaft.
2- You build out a couple adapters on shafts and let them dry adapter up.

Makes sense. Option 1 crossed my mind but that seemed pretty crazy. Hadn't even considered option 2 or it's possible consequences. Luckily I've never made this mistake but at least I'm now aware of it.
 
I’d be interested in what high grade epoxy is in this case- like what the actual product is so I can look into it haha.
 
Also, was he saying tip weights even in iron shafts are altering the way the shaft will play?
 
I’d be interested in what high grade epoxy is in this case- like what the actual product is so I can look into it haha.
Brampton is top of the line when it comes to club epoxy. Worth every cent.
 
Also, was he saying tip weights even in iron shafts are altering the way the shaft will play?
Speaking more to graphite and the effects on what it does to the tip, so in graphite iron shafts, yes.
 
Brampton is top of the line when it comes to club epoxy. Worth every cent.
I would say 3m personally (which I think Jason mentioned) but with the affordable brands Brampton is solid.
 
Brampton is top of the line when it comes to club epoxy. Worth every cent.
I would say 3m personally (which I think Jason mentioned) but with the affordable brands Brampton is solid.

Where would one buy these, and what makes them better? Just curious as I've never had an issue with the golfworks epoxy on any build I've done
 
Where would one buy these, and what makes them better? Just curious as I've never had an issue with the golfworks epoxy on any build I've done
I believe Bramton can be had on Amazon, but I get mine from Mitchell Golf, which is branded as Mitchell.
3M can be had from many places including Mitchell Golf. Its pricier but absolutely awesome and so little has to be used. The strength and durability is why many of the tour vans use it.
 
Where would one buy these, and what makes them better? Just curious as I've never had an issue with the golfworks epoxy on any build I've done

I've never had an issue with Golfworks personally but have heard enough stories that I've decided to use 3M going forward.

I just ordered my Kinetixx Velocity so it will be the first application of the 3M.
 
I finally got around to listening to this one.

Jason sounds like a smart guy. Maybe I have to go back and listen to the previous episode with him, but it was a lot of science sounding jargon which lead this engineer to rewind and re-listen to try to make sense of what was going on. The website is equally full of a lot of confusing clutter.

I don't doubt that the shafts perform, look at the long drive guys, but there are a lot of claims going on, and I would love to see some data.

I would love Jason's take on shaft puring, something that Club Champion does for all graphite shafts (for free!) since the Kinetixx shafts are truly spineless and concentric.
 
To much epoxy can definitely cause issues as others have pointed out. I do think the tungsten powder trick has limits and from time to time tip weights can't be avoided. I've seen irons from major brands be as much as 8 grams off their target weight. Try getting that much tungsten in your epoxy at a workable consistency. Talk about to much epoxy !! Adding a ton of weight to achieve a specific non traditional swing weight in an entire set....not such a good idea but adding 6-8 grams to get an iron head to its INTENDED weight is sometimes unavoidable.
 
Another great podcast! Little late listening this week but I got there.
 
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