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How Much of Putting is Luck?

For me, it's about 90% luck...
 
Not much luck at all unless you are playing crappy greens. I have started making so many more putts after I started golftec and got a putting lesson. I've always been decent at the line and feel of distance and now that I have a good stroke, putts are going in. I don't think it's coincidence.
 
i would have to agree with the skill and luck, i would rather be lucky and good but hey i cant have both
 
Honestly, maybe a max of 5% of putting is luck. If you manage to do each of the 3 things perfectly, you will make the putt 99% of the time. A few blades of grass aren't going to make you miss a putt. Unless there is some kind of big, unseen depression (or the like) in a green, you'll most likely drain a putt with the right line, speed, and swing path
 
I think it's mostly skill. You might get lucky with green irregularity, but you still have to hit it on line and with the right speed.
 
Chunkylover77 said:
Is that the Pelz putting aid?
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CL, it is the Pelz putting aid. It's hard to see in the picture above, but there are 3 different settings for the 2 brass balls at the end of the aid. In the picture above, Hurley has them set at the end of the aid so the balls are closest together. I've tried it a couple of times, and it's REALLY hard in that setting. Luckily, you can move the balls closer to you so that there's more space in between them for the ball that you are putting to pass through. It can be pretty disheartening at first to use that tool, but it really makes you focus on getting the ball started on the line that you've chosen.
 
Idrops said:
I think there are three main aspects to putting:

1 Reading the break and devising your line.

2 Hitting the ball with proper club face angle and path.

3 Hitting the ball with proper speed.

If you do all three properly you should sink the putt, but we all know there are little idiosyncrasies in every putt. For example, the ball may be influenced by a few blades of different grass, or a piece of dirt may alter the path, or the wind can change the speed or line. There are so many little things that influence the roll that you may not see or plan for unless you studied each putt with a level and magnifying glass. The further the putt, the more these things come into play. So how much is luck or random occurrence? I believe if you do the above three things well, you only increase your chance of sinking the putt. There has to be some luck involved.
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Tell you what.... you try luck and I'll try skill and I'll bury you. Putting may be the most skill dependent facet of the game of golf. I've played with a lot of players who are much better ball strikers than I am, but I rarely see a better putter. To putt well day in and day out takes skill - skill at reading greens, skill at hitting the ball on the right line with the right speed. There is very little luck involved in that. Maybe on crappy greens luck becomes a factor, but on decent greens skill will rule the day. Even on poor greens, you still have to get the speed and line right in order to give luck much of a chance.
 
Whoa whoa whoa. My girlfriend beat John Senden in a putt-off to win me a Geico headcover. But I didnt win.

But I do agree with you.

JB said:
Ill put it another way. I have never seen you play. And I would give you 50 to 1 odds against most of the pros on tour and still put my money on them...Without even blinking. Spending time out on tour as I said before, humbled me more than I would have ever believed about my putting. Like you I thought I was that darn good at it. Heck those that come to outings have seen me putt and compliment it. Im a low handicap golfer (all because of short game) and I can tell you in 1000 putting competitions, I would win not a single one with any player on the PGA Tour. If even that many.

I think us as amateurs believe because we use the same equipment, can play the same courses in some cases, and practice what we think is the same way, that we can do the things these guys do. These guys are the elite of the elite in EVERY facet of the game.

Id love to be wrong though, and hope at some point you can come down to a THP Outing and showcase those skills. Would be honored to have you and see the exhibition.
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A Buddy and I have a saying. It's a Poker saying but I think it applies to this as well.

"Skill puts you in more chances to get Lucky."
 
I have never witnessed luck on the green when putting. I HAVE witnessed luck plenty of times elsewhere on the course though. Like hitting trees and the ball bouncing back into the fairway or bouncing back onto the green.
 
You know, I don't really think there are too many amateurs that could go toe to toe with a pro in putting, no matter how good a person thinks they are. They would get killed, plain and simple. Golf is their job. None of us (unless we're independantly weathly) can come close to spending the same amount of time on the greens. If a weekend golfer can be just as good at putting as a pro then why do the pros even practice? They might as well just roll a few before the round and call it good. I'm in construction and I see people all the time think that they can just pick up some tools and do it just as good as a pro. There is a huge difference between someone who does something occasionally and for fun versus the person that has made it there life's work.
 
Helo said:
You know, I don't really think there are too many amateurs that could go toe to toe with a pro in putting, no matter how good a person thinks they are. They would get killed, plain and simple. Golf is their job. None of us (unless we're independantly weathly) can come close to spending the same amount of time on the greens. If a weekend golfer can be just as good at putting as a pro then why do the pros even practice? They might as well just roll a few before the round and call it good. I'm in construction and I see people all the time think that they can just pick up some tools and do it just as good as a pro. There is a huge difference between someone who does something occasionally and for fun versus the person that has made it there life's work.
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I get what you're saying and for the most part I agree with you.
But you know as well as I do that there are many people in this world who are not professional contractors who are very capable of building an extension to their home, or laying a patio or many other things.
Just because someone doesn't do something for a living doesn't mean they can't be good at it. I was in construction for thirteen years as a "professional" but what got me into it in the first place was that "I knew how" and the day before I got my license, I was an amateur just like everyone else. But if I'd stayed an amateur, I'd still "know how".

See what I'm saying?

As a general observation you're probably right in saying that most people who think they can putt like a pro really can't.
But just like construction, that doesn't mean that there isn't anybody who could.
 
How Much of Putting is Luck?
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None!

Sure you can get lucky, but then again so can a person playing the lotto, picking up chicks, or driving drunk, but I don;t suggest any of it. If your aim, stance, strock and feel are right per what you are doing things should turn out on a higher percentage.
 
I was careful to say that I didn't think "there were too many amateurs" that could putt like pros. I realize there are certainly exceptions, but they're exceptions because it's not the norm. Most anyone can putt and most anyone can drive a nail. We can all get the job done, but were talking about doing it at a very high level. I'm sure you were better at construction after 13 years than you were at first. Many of us putt great for amateurs, but quality is relative.
 
Helo said:
I was careful to say that I didn't think "there were too many amateurs" that could putt like pros. I realize there are certainly exceptions, but they're exceptions because it's not the norm. Most anyone can putt and most anyone can drive a nail. We can all get the job done, but were talking about doing it at a very high level. I'm sure you were better at construction after 13 years than you were at first. Many of us putt great for amateurs, but quality is relative.
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Absolutely.

And I understand exactly what you're saying. But I have met many people over the years who really can build some beautiful stuff but choose to do it as a hobby rather than a profession.
I have a neighbor who builds furniture in his spare time and I, along with just about everybody who's seen his work, asks the same question: "Why aren't you doing this for a living?"
What he does for a living is he drives a truck.

Go figure. :confused2:

And you're right, I did get better as the years went by, but I was good enough to get paid for it right off the bat and that's what I'm talking about.
I'm not saying that I or any other amateur golfer could go against top-shelf pros week in and week out right off the bat, but I DO believe that there are amateurs who could at least hold their own against the average pro at a single meeting.
 
I get what your saying. I guess I'm talking more about the averages, like comparing your average furniture builder who does it in his spare time as opposed to the guy that gets up and does it every single day. I don't deny that there are some amazingly talented people and for them the learning curve can be much shorter than for the rest of us.
JWLI said:
Absolutely.

And I understand exactly what you're saying. But I have met many people over the years who really can build some beautiful stuff but choose to do it as a hobby rather than a profession.
I have a neighbor who builds furniture in his spare time and I, along with just about everybody who's seen his work, asks the same question: "Why aren't you doing this for a living?"
What he does for a living is he drives a truck.

Go figure. :confused2:

And you're right, I did get better as the years went by, but I was good enough to get paid for it right off the bat and that's what I'm talking about.
I'm not saying that I or any other amateur golfer could go against top-shelf pros week in and week out right off the bat, but I DO believe that there are amateurs who could at least hold their own against the average pro at a single meeting.
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Putting is a skill that not only takes an exorbitant amount of time to learn, but countless hours are needed to maintain it.
 
Well it certainly takes different physical attributes to become a good putter than it does to become a good driver of the ball for example or a good iron player. However you have to be able to read the greens and execute the putts in order to be a good putter. I guess I will grant that if someone wants to put in the time it takes to get to be a very good putter, in a class with a touring pro, I can see being able to get that good at reading greens and executing putts. If the guy is young enough and has time to put in and can be trained by someone that knows what he is doing I don't see why he could not eventually read greens as well and execute physically. However that still leaves one element that you just cannot practice your way into.

Touring pros are tour tough. They can control their emotions, their bodies even their breathing to an extent that the guy that has put in all this time to learn how to read greens and execute putts simply cannot duplicate. At the end of the day, put these two theoretical players (the touring pro and the well practiced amateur) head to head and even if everything else is equal, the touring pro has a huge advantage because he is used to executing under extreme pressure. Just as the whole game is slowing down for him, the game is racing by your accomplished amateur.

As for lucking into out-dualing the touring pro on the greens, I don't see it.
 
Helo said:
You know, I don't really think there are too many amateurs that could go toe to toe with a pro in putting, no matter how good a person thinks they are. They would get killed, plain and simple. Golf is their job. None of us (unless we're independantly weathly) can come close to spending the same amount of time on the greens. If a weekend golfer can be just as good at putting as a pro then why do the pros even practice? They might as well just roll a few before the round and call it good. I'm in construction and I see people all the time think that they can just pick up some tools and do it just as good as a pro. There is a huge difference between someone who does something occasionally and for fun versus the person that has made it there life's work.
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I pretty much agree but there will always be exceptions. I play every weekend with a scratch player who averages around 23/24 putts per round. The guy is 55, overweight and plays some pretty old clubs. He putts with a forty year old Ping that is beat to death, but he makes everything inside of 8 feet most of the time. His great shortgame gets him close, but even on lag putts he is all around the hole.

I use to average in the mid 30's in putts per round, which is where a high percentage of us are at, but I've been able to knock off a couple of putts per round this summer through lessons and lots of work. Tour players make up 0.001% of the worlds golfers, and many of them play a game nothing like the 66 million of us play and putting is no exception. I think good putting is all skill with a little bit of luck at times thrown in, but largely it is skill.
 
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