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Grooveless Irons and Testing

SuperStroke
wowzers...

Very interested to see the performace of these. Must lose oodles of spin on short shots, perhaps not so much with the flatter irons...
 
GamecockGolfer said:
I think a lot of golf equipment looks cool, but I really don't see the advantage in these clubs other than the grooveless clubs not scuffing up your ball. Interesting none the less.
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There may not be an advantage but I don't really care about that, I do think they look cool though.
 
Hi Guys, I was speaking to Mike Klais the designer from
Germany earlier tonight and he thought it was quite cool
to hear how they were being talked about over here at THP.

We have plenty of our own testing to go but I can say he does
have some very interesting launch monitor results which do tend
to make you think twice plus they look very sweet.

My interest is definitely from a ball design stand point plus he is
using a great feeling Stainless Steel in our trial set that are almost
buttery soft and yet durable which also relates to ball design and
overall shot feel.

I actually like the idea of V grooves on all clubs from PW up (9,8...)
as it creates a more consistent flight and shot control in more types
of weather conditions,,,, so I thought this approach may also have
merit along the same lines.

Anyway Damien has really only started the process and he will
keep you in the loop if everyone is keen to hear how things
progress but please understand this is very early in our testing.

If I do see some real merit in the design I have spoken to JB
and we might look at a trial with the THP team just to have a
second opinion on them.

Cheers,
Boz.
 
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I have received replies from both of the club makers that we sent this to.
They said in a nutshell that while some may not see much change hitting from the tightest of lies in terms of spin or launch angle, there is no doubt in either of their minds that put any piece of moisture or grass between the ball and club face and you would see a noticeable difference.

One offered this.

"Take a look at wedge spin rates from short grass and how they are all virtually the same number. Because while companies try to fool you with marketing mumbo jumbo like spin-milled and other words, they were all maxed out with the same groove size and technique caused spin more than groove size. That is why we always found it funny when you heard amateurs swear that club X did not spin like club Y. However then look at spin numbers out of the rough and how much difference there is between a wedge with maxed out grooves and one without. Taking away any surface friction as well as channel for moisture and objects will without a shadow of a doubt create less spin."
 
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TheBozfromOz said:
Hi Guys, I was speaking to Mike Klais the designer from Germany earlier tonight and he thought it was
quite cool to hear how they were being talked about over here at THP.

We have plenty of our own testing to go but I can say he does have some very interesting launch monitor
results which do tend to make you think twice.

My interest is definitely from a ball design stand point plus he is using a great feeling Stainless Steel
in our trial set that are almost buttery soft and yet durable which also relates to ball design and overall
shot feel.

I actually like the idea of V grooves on all clubs from PW up (9,8...) as it creates a more consistent flight
and shot control in more types of weather conditions,,,, so I thought this approach may also have merit
along the same lines.

Anyway Damien has really only started the process and he will keep you in the loop if everyone is keen
to hear how things progress.

Cheers,
Boz.
Click to expand...

I would love to get my hands on some of those irons. I am very interested in this thought process. If the clubmaker ever wants to xepand his testing. I am very interested!
 
Just got caught up. Very interesting. Will love to see the end result when this is done. A lot of good questions coming out. I wont throw my 2 cents on this one ,but rather enjoy everyone else's ..
 
:snicker::snicker::snicker:
JB said:
One offered this.

"Take a look at wedge spin rates from short grass and how they are all virtually the same number. Because while companies try to fool you with marketing mumbo jumbo like spin-milled and other words, they were all maxed out with the same groove size and technique caused spin more than groove size. That is why we always found it funny when you heard amateurs swear that club X did not spin like club Y. However then look at spin numbers out of the rough and how much difference there is between a wedge with maxed out grooves and one without. Taking away any surface friction as well as channel for moisture and objects will without a shadow of a doubt create less spin."
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I assume this wasn't a reply from Vokey. :)
 
Vegan702 said:
:snicker::snicker::snicker:

I assume this wasn't a reply from Vokey. :)
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Ironically it was not directed at him as he has worked with Bob for a long time.
 
I would shank the hell out of these. They scare me just looking at them. Maybe if they painted pretend grooves on them?
 
Interesting feedback by another person that wanted to share their experience.

"A handful of years ago, these were tested by the manufacturer I worked with at the time. We had looked at the minimal effect that grooves had on the driver and thought it would be worth a trial to see what we found moving towards scoring clubs. The issue for us came to be known rather quickly in that hitting off the tee, does not have any of the elements between the ball and club at impact. Where as grass or other obstacles do have an impact when not using a tee. It would certainly be loved by manufacturers if they could prove that these would work as well, because long term it would be a huge cost saving measure, but our tests showed that there was in fact no benefit and to take it a step further, showed some issues."
 
I always said I would play whatever gets the ball in the hole faster... I just have a hard timebelieving under certain wet conditions these would not be the best clubs to be using. But without testing and trying it for myself I'll try not to prejudge... but it's hard not to...
 
Hawk said:
I would shank the hell out of these. They scare me just looking at them. Maybe if they painted pretend grooves on them?
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does it depend on the color grooves?
 
I think it's a great test and one that I will be watching. Like others, I don't think it will work well out of the rough, but on tight lies and off the tee I would think it would be ok.
 
Wouldn´t the effect be like when you practice goof-shots like hitting wedges with the toe, which has no grooves? When its wet they just flop out with no/very little spinn??

Nice looking clubs thou!
 
Trout Bum said:
There may not be an advantage but I don't really care about that, I do think they look cool though.
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I'm pretty sure the idea is to gain the advantage, not to look cool. Then again I could be playing the game wrong. :glasses-cool:
 
I really can't see the wedges producing much spin in wet conditions or rough to be honest. Nike did a test with some wedges where they sprayed the club and ball with water to see the results. The pro's were loosing so much RPM with each shot that they were having trouble controlling the ball. Surely with no grooves it will be almost impossible to get any sort of control in wet conditions
 
MikeF said:
I really can't see the wedges producing much spin in wet conditions or rough to be honest. Nike did a test with some wedges where they sprayed the club and ball with water to see the results. The pro's were loosing so much RPM with each shot that they were having trouble controlling the ball. Surely with no grooves it will be almost impossible to get any sort of control in wet conditions
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I just watched that video, and was one of the main reasons I was looking at those irons. Now are these the new "U" grooves, or what are we classifying this new type of cut as?
 
I have a different question - what about WORKABILITY? With no grooves on the face is one able to work the ball (draw - fade - hook - slice) as well as with a grooved face?
 
GamecockGolfer said:
I'm pretty sure the idea is to gain the advantage, not to look cool. Then again I could be playing the game wrong. :glasses-cool:
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I'll say it again, I don't care about an advantage, I'm not looking for one! and though looks may not play a role for you, they have an impact on me and how I view or feel about a certain club or set of clubs, and I like the way they look with a full chrome face and no grooves. If you'd like, I'll notify you the next time I decide to like something and make sure it's ok?
 
McKillian said:
Wouldn´t the effect be like when you practice goof-shots like hitting wedges with the toe, which has no grooves? When its wet they just flop out with no/very little spinn??

Nice looking clubs thou!
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Wait, what?! Practice goof shots???? Those are the only shots I don't have to practice. I "goof" plenty as it is without practicing it! :D
 
Wow, I'm not sure how I feel about those.
 
Those just look like they wouldn't be able to get the job done... Weird...
 
This is an interesting thread, and i think the performance might be comparable, and in some cases improved, but once you get significant moisture on the face and/or ball there will be a big difference. At least that's what me and my local pro were talking about when we first saw a grooveless wedge that was out in the early 90's. No idea what it was called though.
 
The guys at vision are not backing away from ANY questions,i like that.I am with most people on this tho i just cannot see how these would be effective from grassy lies at all and especially from sand bunkers or even from perfect lies for that matter.I have done this testing myself :embarrassed: I have hit plenty of balls on the toe where there are no grooves and,none of those shots have ever worked out good for me,not even from perfect lies.I am very interested in hearing what the verdict on these is,i dont think it will be good but,i have been wrong PLENTY of times.Man they look so weird tho.
 
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