THP Jury - The Wedge Debate

[JF]

People don't need 4 wedges.

I know you're a 12-13 club guy, but the way I look at it is there are 14 allowed clubs, so why not take advantage of it? If I can use them all effectively isn't is a good thing to have them?

Plus having more J40s only adds to the sexiness of my bag. or maybe I could lose one of them to make you happy then get another putter w/ a second THP cover. That would be sexy :banana:

 

[CharlieMoy]

I know you're a 12-13 club guy, but the way I look at it is there are 14 allowed clubs, so why not take advantage of it? If I can use them all effectively isn't is a good thing to have them?

Plus having more J40s only adds to the sexiness of my bag. or maybe I could lose one of them to make you happy then get another putter w/ a second THP cover. That would be sexy :banana:

That boils down to how you define "effectively" and I guarantee you're better off without them.

 

[JF]

I see where your Dad is coming from. I've been playing for about 20 years now, and back when I started nobody was using GW/AW or LW. Back then everyone used PW and SW and that was it. I was a lot better player back then too with just those wedges because I had the time to practice. You don't need 4 wedges. But they're nice if you can get them. There's really no right answer to this.

But back then there was no need for a GW because they didn't exist. It was the same loft as a modern PW.

 

[dtak84]

That boils down to how you define "effectively" and I guarantee you're better off without them.

Effective would be a personal opinion in this scenario. Jack also does flops fairly "effectively".

 

[JF]

Effective would be a personal opinion in this scenario. Jack also does flops fairly "effectively".

I legitimately feel I am good at the shot. But, I also legitimately feel the ball would sometimes land closer to the hole with a more traditional chip shot. More practice with traditional chipping will ultimately make me better, obviously.

 

[CharlieMoy]

Effective would be a personal opinion in this scenario. Jack also does flops fairly "effectively".

I flop effectively with a 56 as my highest loft. I know the struggles of wedge gapping. I've learned and taught many different short game techniques. None of which require anything higher than a 56.

 

[JF]

I flop effectively with a 56 as my highest loft. I know the struggles of wedge gapping. I've learned and taught many different short game techniques. None of which require anything higher than a 56.

Different strokes for different folks.

 

[Golf Ghost]

I legitimately feel I am good at the shot. But, I also legitimately feel the ball would sometimes land closer to the hole with a more traditional chip shot. More practice with traditional chipping will ultimately make me better, obviously.

I will ask you this then.

Why not keep the ball on the ground more and chip and pitch more, rather than taking the ball to the air more if you know that you could be more consistant, leading to lower score with keeping the ball on the ground more?

Wedges are preference, but I think we all can agree that our preference is to shot lower scores. So why not go with the technique that will help you shoot lower score?

I ask because before you were saying that you want to have a bunch of wedges for different situation because you thought it would make you better, but then you say this.

 

[JR]

I got a 60 * recently, bumping me up to 4 wedges. I am a decent wedge player, a good chipper, but nothing special, and I will say this:

you don't need 4 wedges. A PW, Gap and Sand are absolutely plenty. I will only use the 60 for crazy flop shots that I probably shouldn't be trying anyway.

 

[JF]

I will ask you this then.

Why not keep the ball on the ground more and chip and pitch more, rather than taking the ball to the air more if you know that you could be more consistant, leading to lower score with keeping the ball on the ground more?

Wedges are preference, but I think we all can agree that our preference is to shot lower scores. So why not go with the technique that will help you shoot lower score?

I ask because before you were saying that you want to have a bunch of wedges for different situation because you thought it would make you better, but then you say this.

I guess our definitions of traditional chipping are confused. I'm certainly not talking bump-and-run. Still a shot through the air, just not super high with the intention of going high and getting as little roll as possible. I'd still be chipping with a 58* around the green, with the hands forward making it more like 50*

 

[Golf Ghost]

I guess our definitions of traditional chipping are confused. I'm certainly not talking bump-and-run. Still a shot through the air, just not super high with the intention of going high and getting as little roll as possible. I'd still be chipping with a 58* around the green, with the hands forward making it more like 50*

If you use the hands forward, it takes away the loft anyways so why use such high lofted clubs?

That style gets the ball on the ground quicker and promotes roll out.

 

[Gianna1025]

I have stopped using a sand and lob wedge for chipping almost all together. I find I am much better with a less lofted club. I get the ball rolling quicker and get up and down more often. Not as much as a touring pro, but I've seen improvements. 4 wedges isn't going to guarantee you getting up and down more. Practice the bump and run, no need to loft the ball in the air if you don't have to

 

[Kobey]

I have 4 wedges, 45*, 50*, 55* and 60*. I have them all because I'm not good and full shots are a lot easier than partials. I wish I had the time and inclination to get good enough that I could pull just about any club from my bag at 100 yards and in, know what I needed to do with that club to hit that shot, and be able to properly execute it. I only get to golf once a week at the most (in fact, today was only the third time I've been able to golf so far this year) so improvement is pretty slow for me.

If you want more wedges, it's your bag so go for it. But listen to these guys. They are right that more wedges aren't a necessity, they are a convenience. Your dad is almost right too, but his reasoning is a bit backwards. If he feels that you will never be a pro player, then he should actually be encouraging you to buy equipment that will make the game easier.

I'm not trying to talk you out of them. To me, it's the same as using an oversized driver. If I really wanted to, I could practice with a regular sized one until I could hit it straight almost every time. But why bother with all that when I can buy a big, forgiving one and hit a lot more fairways with a lot less work.

So don't tell your dad you need more wedges, tell him you want more to make the game more enjoyable. Maybe he will respond better to that.

 

[Bags]

Here's an article by Terry Koehler... Maybe it'll help you

Almost all golfers I run into are playing the same old 52/56/60 wedge combination they have played for years. Those have been the best selling lofts in wedges for nearly two decades. But stop to think about the fact that this combination became “the solution” when almost all irons had a true “pitching wedge” of 48 degrees of loft. So those wedge lofts made lots of sense to keep consistent gaps between them.


But how many sets of irons have you purchased and gone through since you settled on the 52/56/60 combination of wedges long ago? Two? Three?


The fact is that no golf company has made a set of irons with a 48 degree pitching wedge in nearly 15 years! Today’s irons are more likely to have a ‘P-club’ of 44-45 degrees than one of 47 or 48. And that makes your optimum wedge set make-up very different than it was “way back then”. In fact, with the strengthening of iron lofts over the past two decades, you’ve lost a wedge from your bag! The modern “P-club”, with its loft of 44-46 degrees, is just another short iron. You cannot “pitch” the ball with a club of that little loft. At slower swing speeds, it just cannot get the job done.


And if you are still carrying an “old” gap wedge of 52 degrees, you have a full-swing distance break right in “money range” that could be as much as 25 yards . . . maybe even more.


The solution to your scoring starts with a close look at the irons you are playing now. You need to know the loft of your 8-iron, 9-iron and ‘P-club” to put together a precision scoring range combination. You can find out the specs on your irons by doing a Google search of the make model and “specifications”. Only after you know what your irons are all about, can you put together the right combination of wedges to optimize your short range performance.


Once you know the starting point of your optimum scoring clubs, you can see what your ideal lofts should be. If you are an average-strength golfer, differentials of four degrees usually deliver the right results. Longer hitter can often benefit from reducing that to 3 degrees to tighten the full swing gaps. Shorter hitters can get by with wider gaps of 5 degrees. The key is to find out exactly what your “prescription” is, then get wedges to fill it.


Once you do that, many of you are going to find that your optimum set calls for a 49/53/57 and possibly a 61. Or 51/55/59 . . . 50/55/60 . . . 47/52/57 . . . the possible scenarios are almost endless.

 

[Bags]

and one more from Terry Koehler...

Your Short Game — One Swing or One Club?
FEBRUARY 07, 2012 THE WEDGE GUY


Since you readers have gotten active sending me ideas for articles, one that has come up several times is the “argument” that is ongoing about the best approach to the short game:


Should you use one club and learn lots of different shots, or should you learn one swing technique and use multiple clubs to get the results you are after?


My answer is . . . yes.


Since I like to call upon movies and books for reference, this one is like the movie City Slicker, where Billy Crystal’s character, Mitch, is probing the trail boss, Curly, about the true secret of life, and gets the answer, “It’s just one thing”. So Mitch asks, “What is that one thing?” and the old curmudgeon replies, “That’s what you have to figure out for yourself”, which leaves Mitch totally befuddled . . . until the end of the trail ride.


So, the answer to this age old question about the short game is the same – you have to figure out which works best . . . for you. Let me break down the pros and cons of each.


One club, multiple swings. The proponents of this approach claim that if you learn how to do many things with one club, it will make you a better short game practitioner. I really don’t doubt that at all, but the key is “if”. Will you spend the time around the practice green and on the course, learning multiple techniques with that one club so that you can make it fly low and run out when you have lots of green to work with? Hit it higher and softer when you have a bunker to carry or close cut pin? Hit the low spinner, one-hop-and-stop shot when it’s called for?


If you are going to learn all the shots with just one club, you HAVE to invest the time and practice to learn them all and ingrain them so that you can call each of those various swing techniques when needed.


One swing, multiple clubs. This is another tried-and-true approach to building a solid short game. It relies on you learning just one basic chipping and pitching technique and then selecting the club that will give you the desired ball flight and run percentage for that shot you face. Its strength is that you don’t have to spend as much time learning many different techniques, but you do have to invest the time to learn what different clubs do in the relation of ball flight to roll. But overall, this approach to the short game takes less time to achieve a reasonable level of proficiency.


If you learn what your single technique will produce with each of your wedges and short irons, you can dissect any shot into the right club to get the job done.


Multiple swings, multiple clubs. If you want to have a top level short game, you will learn several swing techniques and then learn what each of them produces with various wedges and short irons. You can hit lower shots with controlled spin with your lob wedge, while also knowing how to hit semi-flop shots with your gap wedge. Having this vast array of “arrows in your quiver” will give you plenty of options for any shot you run into on the golf course.


The key is to select a method that matches the amount of time you are willing to invest to learn it to perfection. The short game will present you with a dozen or more opportunities every round to save strokes or attack the golf course.


The better you are within 50 yards, the better golfer you’ll be. Period.

 

[ddec]

this thread would be better if there was a poll question

 

[HardcoreLooper]

But back then there was no need for a GW because they didn't exist. It was the same loft as a modern PW.

I'm surprised that more posters haven't seized on this (Bags got his in before I did). You are absolutely correct. Iron lofts have become so strong that there is a huge gap between what we now call a PW and the SW. I didn't need anything between PW and SW back in high school in the late 80s. With the last set I bought (two years ago), I broke down and bought a GW. Do not regret it at all. Then again, I have virtually no time to practice. Especially practicing taking 10 yards off a PW. I got tired of being 120 out and having no shot. With a PW, I get steep, I stop turning, and I hit all sorts of ugly shots. With a GW, I can make a good, aggressive swing.

Then again, I hardly practice anymore. If I have time, I play. Damn job.

 

[Kobey]

I'm glad my post got in before Bags posted those articles. It shows just how much I have learned since I have been here.:act-up:

 

[Custom Method]

I love having a gap, pitching, sand and 58* wedge. My gap and pitching are from my irons but I never use my pitching wedge except for full shots. I chip so much better with my gap wedge than any other wedge despite the cavity back. I have had to chip ins in the last 2 rounds!

 

[Custom Method]

I will ask you this then.

Why not keep the ball on the ground more and chip and pitch more, rather than taking the ball to the air more if you know that you could be more consistant, leading to lower score with keeping the ball on the ground more?

Wedges are preference, but I think we all can agree that our preference is to shot lower scores. So why not go with the technique that will help you shoot lower score?

I ask because before you were saying that you want to have a bunch of wedges for different situation because you thought it would make you better, but then you say this.

I am way more consistent going in the air. Thats just how I have always like it. Never been into the whole bump and run.

 

[Golf Ghost]

I am way more consistent going in the air. Thats just how I have always like it. Never been into the whole bump and run.

I'm not say it't not different for everyone, but he admitted that he thinks he would be more consistant playing it lower, but yet preferes to take it to the air, so I was asking why he would not go with that he thinks he could be more consistant with and work on that.

 

[bahester]

I only chip with my hybrid. Clearly you're doing it wrong

 

[CharlieMoy]

It looks prettier that way.

I'm not say it't not different for everyone, but he admitted that he thinks he would be more consistant playing it lower, but yet preferes to take it to the air, so I was asking why he would not go with that he thinks he could be more consistant with and work on that.

 

[Kobey]

I'm not say it't not different for everyone, but he admitted that he thinks he would be more consistant playing it lower, but yet preferes to take it to the air, so I was asking why he would not go with that he thinks he could be more consistant with and work on that.

Probably because it is so much more fun to pop one up and have it land softly 10 feet from the hole than it is to roll one up to 2 feet away. It's the same reason we go for it when we know we should play it safe.

 

[tequila4kapp]

I haven't read the whole thread so apologies in advance if someone else said it already, but there's no right or wrong answer to your question about number of wedges. Bag configuration is a personal preference based on where and how you play. That said, things change. Back in the day before technology improvements brought us hybrids and longer irons it wasn't out of the ordinary to carry a bunch of woods.

Your second implied question is harder. If the parents are paying they get the last word.