thanks, but it's certainly a two-way street. you guys have been super helpful in making Swingbyte a better product. thanks for your continued feedback and participation!
Introducing Swingbyte
thanks, but it's certainly a two-way street. you guys have been super helpful in making Swingbyte a better product. thanks for your continued feedback and participation!
So, I gather from the posts on here that the club head speed and angle of attack are accurate, but the rest isn't? Is that correct? I've been hitting putts with my swing byte and it seems like its telling me i'm swinging 4* out to in when I'm fairly certain I'm swinging in to out. Of course, I could be wrong, but if that data isn't accurate I'll probably shouldn't try to make changes to my swing based on the loft, path, and face angle.
dalostpinoy
New member
+100...
all the data points swingbyte provides are accurate, and verified. the reason you may be seeing an out to in number is two-fold - you may not have swingbyte aligned at the 3 o'clock position, or you may not be addressing perfectly neutral to the target line. remember - 1 minute mark on a watch face is 6 degrees, so 4 degrees is a small number to the naked eye.
the 3d view is also an accurate representation of your swing.
a great use of swingbyte is for comparing successive shots, as it's internally consistent.
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Mathwiz
Member
I accessed the Swingbyte web site tonight and found it very interesting. I am a lefty. Does Swingbyte work for us?
9:00 position?
9:00 position?
CPA,That is pretty damning. Isn't that the purpose of the device?
Can this even be fixed? It sounds like it is impossible to physically attach it to a club in a position that gives remotely accurate results. How close to 3 oclock can someone reasonably be expected to come? 2-3 minutes off? That's 8-12 degrees. I'm not an engineer or software guy so maybe, and hopefully, I'm wrong. But I don't see how software updates can fix this. Right now it looks like I spent $150 to measure my swing speed.
I'm not sure I understand how "internal accuracy" is useful. Is the point that it can tell me if I am swinging more in to out or my clubface is more open than the previous swing? Maybe then it should just record a few swings without giving data then spit out numbers relative to those. Instead its just spitting out false data. It's hard to understand the utility when the starting point is a mystery. I guess if you know you swing over the top you can take a swing and then try to improve the number you get. Just hope you didn't make a good swing by accident.
My last question is how can the 3d image be accurate if it can't tell what direction my club is my club is moving? Is the point that the shape of the path is accurate but the orientation relative to the target is not? I'm not sure what that tells you without the other info, but I can imagine that it could be useful.
I agreed that the service seems very responsive on here, and thats part of the reason why I bought it. I figured all the kinks would be worked out. But the responses are very vague. The data is inaccurate but its internally accurate? Although the data is bad,the 3d view is accurate? In what way? I have no idea how to use this thing. I don't even know what is accurate and what isn't, or how I can make use of the "internally accurate" data. If not for reading through 56 pages of posts on this website, how would a customer know any of this?
I sincerely hope that I am wrong and all these things can be fixed. This device could be a game changer.
Can this even be fixed? It sounds like it is impossible to physically attach it to a club in a position that gives remotely accurate results. How close to 3 oclock can someone reasonably be expected to come? 2-3 minutes off? That's 8-12 degrees. I'm not an engineer or software guy so maybe, and hopefully, I'm wrong. But I don't see how software updates can fix this. Right now it looks like I spent $150 to measure my swing speed.
I'm not sure I understand how "internal accuracy" is useful. Is the point that it can tell me if I am swinging more in to out or my clubface is more open than the previous swing? Maybe then it should just record a few swings without giving data then spit out numbers relative to those. Instead its just spitting out false data. It's hard to understand the utility when the starting point is a mystery. I guess if you know you swing over the top you can take a swing and then try to improve the number you get. Just hope you didn't make a good swing by accident.
My last question is how can the 3d image be accurate if it can't tell what direction my club is my club is moving? Is the point that the shape of the path is accurate but the orientation relative to the target is not? I'm not sure what that tells you without the other info, but I can imagine that it could be useful.
I agreed that the service seems very responsive on here, and thats part of the reason why I bought it. I figured all the kinks would be worked out. But the responses are very vague. The data is inaccurate but its internally accurate? Although the data is bad,the 3d view is accurate? In what way? I have no idea how to use this thing. I don't even know what is accurate and what isn't, or how I can make use of the "internally accurate" data. If not for reading through 56 pages of posts on this website, how would a customer know any of this?
I sincerely hope that I am wrong and all these things can be fixed. This device could be a game changer.
i'm not sure which responses are vague, so i'll restate here - all data points are accurate, and verified. we've spent time on swing robots with stationary radar systems, and high speed video systems.
the main issue is whether swingbyte is at 3 o'clock - you can reasonably eyeball that within a degree if you use the grooves on the club face as a guide, and we're putting together an alignment guide, and whether you're square to the target line. the reason i bring up the internal consistency aspect is that it lets you focus on the parts of the swing you want to change. you take a baseline, and then you see what changes impact what numbers. that way the absolute numbers aren't as important as the changes that you make. we see pros do this in lessons with swingbyte all the time, with great success.
yup - on both counts
I think there is potential for this to be a great device, even with its flaws. I'm not trying to flame it. But it can only be useful if the mfg is straightforward about what the device can and cannot measure.
I'll try to be more clear regarding why I think the responses are vague. For example, here is a swing that I took last night (putting):
1. Club face to address: 4.6* open
2. Club path 4.4* in to out
3. Club loft 4.0*
4. Shaft lean 2.0* forward
5. Club face to path 5.4* open
6. Lie angle 3* removed
7. Attack angle .4* up
8. Initial loft angle 2.3*
9. Initial shaft lean 1.7* forward
10. Initial lie angle 69.6*
You say: "All the data points are accurate, and verified." What does this actually mean? I think you will acknowledge that 1, 2, and 5 are only as accurate as I place the device on the club. So that right there is vague or misleading, at best. Your statement gives the impression that the numbers shown on my phone are correct when they are not.
Along the same lines, the FAQ on the website, in response to "How accurate is swingbyte" states: "We have cross-tested Swingbyte with most of the leading golf swing analysis technology and we are very pleased with the results. For example, club head speed on Swingbyte is usually within a couple of miles per hour of club head speed measurements on other devices. What is most important is that Swingbyte is internally accurate. From one swing to the next, if you swing faster, Swingbyte will capture that improvement."
This is a negative pregnant. The device gives 10 data points and this response claims that one of them is accurate, which begs the question. Although the website says you're pleased with the comparisons to "leading golf swing analysis technology", you acknowledged on here that only the swing speed and angle of attack are similar.
So instead we're told that its real value isn't in telling you if your clubface is open or shut but rather telling you that it was more open or shut than the last swing. Sure, a professional who knows every detail of his swing can take a swing with a swingbye, see 3* out to in and say to himself "well that's bs, that swing was 1* in to out" and then make good use of the device by subtracting 4* from the measurements. But if you don't already know this then how is this device useful? That's the ultimate question: how does the hacker use this to improve his game?
I've had my swingbyte for two months or so and I've used it maybe four times, all while putting indoors (brought it to the range once but it wouldn't connect). You can tell us the "data points" are accurate, but the fact of the matter is, I strap the thing on my putter and then what? I have no idea what my normal dynamic loft, club face, or swing path numbers are, how could I? It says my face is open 4* to the path, I know that I should be square to the path, but the data is totally dependent on how its attached to my club. That's the difference of one minute on a clock-face. Why would I try to square my clubface more at impact if I don't know that its not square to begin with?
I suppose you might say then that you must first know what to work on and that the swingbyte can't diganose problems. But even that wouldn't hold water. Say I take a lesson using a SAMLAB and i'm told that my clubface can be anywhere from square to open 6* at impact. The pro tells me to work on getting square more consistently. The next day at home I strap on my swingbyte and take a stroke that reads that i'm square. Was it a good swing or did I not attach the device right?
Lastly, there just isn't enough explanation of the data. When it says my swing path is 4.4* in to out what does that mean? Does that mean at impact my swing is still moving in to out? The goal of putting with an arc is to approach the ball from the inside, but be straight at impact. So aside from knowing whether it is accurate, I have no idea whether this is telling me that I'm still moving in to out when I should be going straight through or that I'm doing it correctly. I can't make changes based on that. This is just a matter of explaining what the device is doing. This could easily be done in an instruction manual or on the website.
Honestly, I am beginning to think this the lack of information is strategic. Maybe swingbyte has decided that it will sell the most units if it markets itself as a trackman substitute. So they tell you that they can give you the same data points and that they are "pleased" with its performance. Everything about these responses leave me wondering "why don't they just give a straight answer?" Embrace what the device does and how it can be used.
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I think that it's been discussed to the nth degree in this thread that regardless of what the marketing literature says or claims, individual swing data by itself can be fairly useless until the issue of ensuring the device is exactly positioned at 3 oclock and the device does not move and that the system knows that you're aligned and square to your "intended" target line. With that said, where the device is invaluable given the above constraints is for those data points which aren't dependent on exact positioning of the device on the club such as the swing speed, tempo, etc. and the graphical representation of your swing and more importantly, when comparing one swing to another so you get a sense that swing B had more speed than swing A, with a more ideal tempo and maybe that swing B was "less" out to in than swing A. Comparing data from swing to swing is invaluable rather than taking one swing in isolation. With the swing graphic, which I find extremely useful and which I don't believe is dependent on alignment of the device, you will quickly know if you're coming in over the top, if you're coming in from inside/outside at impact, if your swing is steeper or flatter, etc.
That is how a "hacker" can extract value from the device for now while the SB crew works out some of the kinks that I mentioned above.
I'll have to use it some more to figure out how the swing to swing changes can be useful. Like I said, I've only used it for putting indoors. I can see how if I am the range and hitting a slice after slice I could strap this thing on and work on the swing path without relying on the absolute number.
As for the graphic, wouldn't it too be relative to the position of the device? I asked this in my first post but Kolosy responded to my other points. If it doesn't really know what direction the swing path is going, how can the graphic be accurate? Is it that the shape is accurate but the direction off?
if swingbyte is rotated relative to the club shaft, then it will be like you said - the shape will be correct, but rotated incorrectly relative to the target line.
I'm sure there is "some" dependency on how the device is positioned on the shaft for the graphic to be 100% accurate, however, because it's a drawn "graphic" to me it doesn't have to be "precise" i mean face it, does it matter if it's a few degrees off in the drawn graphic? You can surely "eyeball" the placement of the device at approximately 3oclock to get a good idea of general swing path. I have a buddy who's a good player with a great looking swing to the eye, but with SB, its obvious that he's ever slightly over the top in his transition though he manages to get the club back on plane and hits from the inside. I was shocked, he was shocked, the over the top move is so slight that you can hardly tell with the naked eye and since he got it back on plane prior to impact, ball flight was usually great. With a slow mo camera you could see the slight OTT move (but only if you were looking for it - otherwise, one would probably not have noticed), it certainly wasn't a "drop" to the inside. So for him, SB was an eye opening moment and something he's looking to correct (though i'm of the belief, who cares since he does such a great job of getting to the ball from the inside at impact). Another thing i noticed is that he really hits down on the ball whereas I don't hit down on the ball as much and he's got so much more forward shaft lean when compared to me (once again, SB is great when comparing swing A to swing B) so i try to use SB to really try get a steeper attack angle and more forward shaft lean. The absolute number as to shaft lean and angle of attack at impact might be wrong, but i will know that swing #10 had more forward shaft lean and a steeper AoA than swing #1 and that's why the ball flight was what it was.
Are those elements affected by the position of the device as well? It would be really helpful to know which numbers are effected and which are not. Maybe they all are?
Thanks for your responses!
Yes I believe they are (has to know which way the shaft is leaning, if you put the device on at 9'oclock, i'm sure things would be backwards, but if it's relatively close to 3*oclock i think depending on the what data type it won't be "perfect" but should suffice) but my point is that i'm not relying on the data for a single swing in isolation, but on the comparison of one swing to another. I know that my buddy has almost 2-3 times attack angle than me and almost 2x as much forward shaft lean than me at impact. I'm not getting hung up on whether his AoA of -10* as registered by SB is accurate or not, but on how his -10* AoA is 2x the -5* that SB might be recording for me. With that information if I work on a swing change and now SB registers my -5* AoA has improved to -10* AoA, than I know my drills or swing change is working (btw, i'm making numbers up to make a point). Same goes for forward shaft lean at impact, i'm not getting hung up on actual numbers but on whether the DIRECTION of changes in data from swing to swing is trending in the direction that would warrant improvement for that data type. Hope that makes sense.
The angle I am referring to is face to address. I copied it below for reference.
"I'm a little confused as to why the SB would consistently tell me the club face is open at address. I would think that if assumptions are needed to be made that having the club face pointing directly at the target at address would be the chosen direction. My club ALWAYS points at the target for this effort, yet the angles in the analysis reports are always open and vary from 1 to 15 degrees."
So far I havent been able to detect a trend at all, the angles vary from swing to swing way too much. I.E. the face to address, I always set up exactly the same yet the "measured" angle always varies from 1 to 15 degrees.
Could be a forced calibration will help. I hope. But I suspect it will take a manual setting of the setup rather than the SB measuring it to get repeatable info.
Sceptor
For a test try keeping your clubface as square to targetline in the backswing as long as you can. My guess is the SB is registering a different address point for each swing. If the number differential lowers that will be it.
For a test try keeping your clubface as square to targetline in the backswing as long as you can. My guess is the SB is registering a different address point for each swing. If the number differential lowers that will be it.
are the swings you're checking with a wedge? and what's the lie added/removed?
mrchua
New member
How does this compare to the 3Bays GSA Pro?
The swing speed and tempo check are enough to warrant getting it for me. More later from my viewpoint. It's also been very useful as a PT and using it with patients. If we do xyz (stretch, strengthen etc) then what changes?
George
George
guys - new iOS update is out, Android is on its heels (a day or two behind)
this one should significantly improve the phone experience - way less clicking, more things accessible from the 3d screen, can have have data points visible on the data screen now for phones.
for both iPhones and iPads, you can also now change swings without going to the history tab - just swipe with two fingers back or forth over either the 3d screen or the data screen.
we'll put up a blog post shortly detailing everything...
this one should significantly improve the phone experience - way less clicking, more things accessible from the 3d screen, can have have data points visible on the data screen now for phones.
for both iPhones and iPads, you can also now change swings without going to the history tab - just swipe with two fingers back or forth over either the 3d screen or the data screen.
we'll put up a blog post shortly detailing everything...
I didnt mean this as a question for swingbyte. Rather, This is a question i ask myself and the patient. If we stretch your hip or neck, etc. Or if I do a manual technique then how does your swing change? Does swing speed go up? Not come over the top as much etc. that's why the internal consistency is important. And this helps to know the best stretches for someone to do.
How many swings before someone is really warmed up? Then that's a great number for them to do at the course.
George
How many swings before someone is really warmed up? Then that's a great number for them to do at the course.
George