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Question for those of you that play a draw. Alignment and aim related.

Playdough said:
I guess I don't understand the idea of of a push-draw. Are you trying to hit an intentional push? Meaning you are forcing yourself to hit it right of where you are aiming and then turning it over to get it back to the target? That seems like that could be wildly inconsistent..maybe I don't understand the idea of a push-draw. Help there please?
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My pro plays a push draw, and does it very very well. It'll start off 5 yard or so right of his target line, and come back to his target every stinking time.

For me, I've tried to play that shot and end up with lots of blocks, which suck.
 
blugold said:
This is a tough one. You know from playing with me, that I usually hit a draw. I like to hit a push draw, but my problem is that sometimes it doesn't draw. Which is a whole other can of worms. The best thing I can say, look at the landing area and assess the trouble. If you can miss left, play your draw. If there is trouble, aim right and come what may.
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Blu, that strategy has helped me a ton. If I can afford to miss left, I'll aim right at the pin and hope for the best.
 
Yeah I would think that would be blocking miss. Not for me....good for those that can hit that style of shot.
 
I love THP. You guys are very helpful.
 
I guess different "types" of swings react differently, but for the life of me I can't imagine moving the ball back causing a draw. As you move the ball back in your stance your swing gets steeper, it also means you make contact earlier in your swing which should result in your club face being more open. I'm with you kelly, I'm confused.
 
Hawk said:
Only problem is that 1) My mind struggles with being set up closed to the target and 2) I feel like I can't extend down the line so much and I want to pull the ball back to the left (which I do). Then I get a big old miss to the left. Almost like I'm aimed to the right, but swinging to the left instinctually.

Three years ago I had no problem doing this with a fading shot shape, but I think that's because it's so much more comfortable to be open to the target.
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I'm such an opposite when it comes to the open approach at the target and tend to aim too far right

I'm in the 2nd camp. aim out, closed the face a tad, and put the ball a little forward. i think there was a golf academy episode w/Langer that helped me a bit with those shapes.
 
I'm with you Wake. That is exactly why I don't read swing thoughts.
 
Hawk said:
Could be either, but on an average/good swing it'll likely be left of the flag if I aim right at something in the center. Starts straight and goes left 5-10 yards I guess? I can pull it as well of course. In a perfect world it would start right and go left back to center, but it's golf and I can't always do what I want.

Long/short I guess could be either.
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What is wrong with center to left? It seems to me that you might be over thinking this. Pick a target right of the flag and swing. You can set up square to that target and the ball end up at the flag.
Sweeping draw you're looking for that starts right it ends up left is more a product of taking the ball taking the club inside striking the inside of the ball allowing you hands to turnover from a square position vs striking the back of the ball and letting them turn over.

If you're transferring your weight and release your hands properly hitting the ball from the inside is the way to go to get that left right movement but there's nothing wrong with the center to left movement that you currently have. hope this helps
 
Wake said:
I guess different "types" of swings react differently, but for the life of me I can't imagine moving the ball back causing a draw. As you move the ball back in your stance your swing gets steeper, it also means you make contact earlier in your swing which should result in your club face being more open. I'm with you kelly, I'm confused.
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ill take my best shot and try to explain this as I see it. if you were to take one of those machines that swings the same exact way everytime I would imagine the results would be more scientific. forward ball position would lead to a more closed clubface at impact causing a draw and an open face at a rear position causing a fade. the only difference is I think that the machine is missing the human element. I cant speak for anyone else but for me I think its more instinctive that when I have the ball back in my stance im more conscious to drop inside and turn over sooner than I normally would , and when the ball is forward in my stance I instinctively open the face and have a late release. I hope that makes sense
 
This push draw everybody's talking about is a head scratcher. push draw start right stays right of the target doesn't sweepback over to the left

Swinging the club on an inside to out path doesn't create a push. it creates this shot starts right and comes back left as long as you're releasing the club and transferring your weight to the left side
 
im not so sure about the push draw either. in my head I picture that as a hip block that came back from toe correction of the clubface
 
Tadashi70 said:
What is wrong with center to left? It seems to me that you might be over thinking this. Pick a target right of the flag and swing. You can set up square to that target and the ball end up at the flag.
Sweeping draw you're looking for that starts right it ends up left is more a product of taking the ball taking the club inside striking the inside of the ball allowing you hands to turnover from a square position vs striking the back of the ball and letting them turn over.

If you're transferring your weight and release your hands properly hitting the ball from the inside is the way to go to get that left right movement but there's nothing wrong with the center to left movement that you currently have. hope this helps
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LOL I don't know! I'm glad I made this thread because I come to find out that there are some good golfers playing a similar shot. I just figured the other way was the right way.

My main issue remains feeling closed off though. That's just going to take some practice and I think I'll have to put myself on some uncomfortable lines to get used to it.
 
KellyBo said:
Maybe I should stop reading but here's a great article

Sean Foley: The Law of the Draw
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"For instance, you might have been taught that to hit a draw, your clubface has to be facing left of your target at impact. That is incorrect. You also might have been told that the path of the club through impact is what determines the ball's initial direction. Also wrong. Thanks to a company called TrackMan, which developed a "golf radar" that can record and measure any part of a golf swing and the ensuing ball flight, we now have indisputable science on what produces a draw. I want to share these findings with you, and give you some advice on how to adjust your swing to take advantage of them. You'll be drawing the ball with ease in no time"

Read More http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-instruction/2012-12/sean-foley-law-of-the-draw#ixzz2cR90mZzd

I want to understand the ball flight rules better. I enjoy good instruction on how to but I also have a desire to know why my ball does what it does.
​
 
Ok here's my question...short of a special shot out of necessity, why would you want to hit a draw into a green? (runoff)

Push draw-
Pros: 1) It's pretty, and 2) it can help if blocked out
Cons: 1) 2 way miss is huge, 2) runout on green

Here's why the shot is not necessary for us amateurs IMHO- It requires the player to open the face (with regard to target) and swing further from the inside. You are starting the ball right with an open face (open face = risking having the toe dig in first opening the face even further) and then you have to change your swing path. If the club face is a couple degrees too open you'll match the path and you got a straight push (double cross), if it's too closed you get a hook (due to the difference in path and face). You basically have to be perfect with a swing path that is not your normal one.

I prefer to aim right, close the face a hair, swing normal. Shaping the ball always has risks but a straight draw requires taking your normal swing path and just closing the face a touch. You are guaranteeing opposite angles (in path and closed face) whereas the push draw everything is right and there's no guarantee the face wont be too open or too closed. With a straight draw the biggest risk is a straight ball but you're definitely taking the right side of the course out of play. I'm just not a big fan of changing swing paths using extremes.
 
Jericho, that's the way my ball goes. No real run out issues for me, but I hit it pretty high.

How lucky is Jay to have cgp as a brother by the way. Jeez!

Really guys, tons of great info. I've been stewing on this and thought it might be a dumb question, but I learned a lot.
 
Hawk said:
LOL I don't know! I'm glad I made this thread because I come to find out that there are some good golfers playing a similar shot. I just figured the other way was the right way.

My main issue remains feeling closed off though. That's just going to take some practice and I think I'll have to put myself on some uncomfortable lines to get used to it.
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So If you set up right of your target and Swing does this make you feel closed even if you're square to that new target?
 
Hitting a draw? Yeah, that's my game. Multiquoting to come....

War Eagle said:
This thread intrigues me. I, no matter how hard I try, can not force myself to aim right.
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People that hit a cut off of the tee aren't allowed in this thread. ;-)

Hawk said:
Exactly! The farther I aim right the farther left it'll go too.


Good stuff people. Thank you for the help.
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You're moving your club path more in-to-out by aiming more right, so the ball goes more left if you draw it.

Hawk said:
Thanks PD. Do you mean put a stick in the ground at an angle?
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Put the stick in the ground a few yards ahead of the ball. What's fun is to put the stick a little to the right of your aiming point and force yourself to start it left of the stick, that will get you out of hitting a draw and make your path more neutral.

Wake said:
Typically its the opposite, back in the stance for fade, forward for draw.
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Complete opposite for me.

Tadashi70 said:
This push draw everybody's talking about is a head scratcher. push draw start right stays right of the target doesn't sweepback over to the left

Swinging the club on an inside to out path doesn't create a push. it creates this shot starts right and comes back left as long as you're releasing the club and transferring your weight to the left side
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Your clubface at impact creates a push vs. pull. Assuming that you're hitting it near the center of the clubface and not getting a huge gear effect by hitting well off the heel or toe, an open clubface for a right-handed golfer will start the ball right of the target line, and a closed clubface will start the ball left of the target line. Don't believe me? Take a wedge, open the face up on a greenside shot so that it's aimed at a flag but your body is open to the target, and swing down the line of your feet. Look at where the ball goes, it doesn't go along your body orientation, it goes towards the flag because that's where the clubface is aimed.

Curvature of the ball is determined by the club path in relation to the face. I've been on Trackman and hit shots before, my clubface will be 2-3 degrees open but my path is 4-5 degrees in-to-out, that results in a draw. I don't want to bog people down with a bunch of text on this, just watch this video, this pro explains it much better than me:

 
Tadashi70 said:
So If you set up right of your target and Swing does this make you feel closed even if you're square to that new target?
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Yes it does. Very much so.
 
I'm still not 100% sure I get the stick in the ground thing.
 
Hawk said:
Jericho, that's the way my ball goes. No real run out issues for me, but I hit it pretty high.

How lucky is Jay to have cgp as a brother by the way. Jeez!

Really guys, tons of great info. I've been stewing on this and thought it might be a dumb question, but I learned a lot.
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It's nice when I get a chance to see him and talk shop. Sometime I even send him video to look at, too. He worked for GolfTec for a few years, taught thousands of lessons with varying ranges of handicap's and I would basically get free lessons. Now that he's not with them anymore, he still has all the knowledge and helps me when I ask. You should really hit him up, he LOVES helping everyone out. Once he gets back from Scottland, hit him up!
 
KellyBo said:
"For instance, you might have been taught that to hit a draw, your clubface has to be facing left of your target at impact. That is incorrect. You also might have been told that the path of the club through impact is what determines the ball's initial direction. Also wrong. Thanks to a company called TrackMan, which developed a "golf radar" that can record and measure any part of a golf swing and the ensuing ball flight, we now have indisputable science on what produces a draw. I want to share these findings with you, and give you some advice on how to adjust your swing to take advantage of them. You'll be drawing the ball with ease in no time"

Read More http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-instruction/2012-12/sean-foley-law-of-the-draw#ixzz2cR90mZzd

I want to understand the ball flight rules better. I enjoy good instruction on how to but I also have a desire to know why my ball does what it does.
​
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Kelly, if you have some time, this is the definitive video about ball flight laws. It's 17 minutes long, but well worth your time.

[video=youtube;-89M1vt66FA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-89M1vt66FA[/video]
 
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