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How to know if x flex is too stiff

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bigdaddy

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I have been dabbling in x flex shaft for a few weeks now and have been hitting the Super LS 9.5 with the Kuro Kage 69 x flex in it. I have a swing speed that is comfortable around 105. When I get after it and swing hard, more like 110 to 113.

On the easier swings, I tend to either hook the ball or hit a weak fade.

When I swing hard, it can crush the ball, but control suffers a bit

My question is simple, what are the dead giveaways that a shaft is too stiff. I am not hitting it awful, but I think a stiff may give me a boost in feel and distance.

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A low push or fade is generally a sign.
 
bigdaddy said:
I have been dabbling in x flex shaft for a few weeks now and have been hitting the Super LS 9.5 with the Kuro Kage 69 x flex in it. I have a swing speed that is comfortable around 105. When I get after it and swing hard, more like 110 to 113.

On the easier swings, I tend to either hook the ball or hit a weak fade.

When I swing hard, it can crush the ball, but control suffers a bit

My question is simple, what are the dead giveaways that a shaft is too stiff. I am not hitting it awful, but I think a stiff may give me a boost in feel and distance.

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Click to expand...

Constantly missing right , if a shaft is too whippy you will cook them left.
 
No hook?

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fupresti said:
A low push or fade is generally a sign.
Click to expand...

bogeybrain said:
Constantly missing right , if a shaft is too whippy you will cook them left.
Click to expand...

Can't agree completely with either blanket statement... Those misses can also be a cause of your swing.

Why did you get X-flex? Was it because you thought it would help your dispersion when going after a drive? The flex of the shaft won't make up for the inconsistent strike you place on the ball when swinging too hard.

I would say a stiff is probably a better fit for you, though because different manufacturers have different flex profiles, you might want to get it fitted to find out for sure...

For what it's worth, my comfortable swing is at 109 mph club head speed, and I swing a stiff.
 
bigdaddy said:
No hook?

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You could hook it by trying to swing too hard at it as well, but it'd be user error at that point.

That shaft is one of the stouter shafts out there. It takes a bit of firepower for that one.
 
No. The issue is that I tend to cause a lot of twist on the shaft. For years, I played a Prolaunch Red stiff in all my drivers. The launch monitors showed my spin was lowered going to an x, and supposedly, my accuracy would improve as well.
I have always hit the ball crazy high. This new setup, when hit hard, launches low and runs forever. I just hate the misses which generally happen when I hit it easier. Also, don't think it feels right all the time. I hit drives on a bunch of holes today. Hooks on 2 hole (both on easy swings), slice or fade on 6 and dead perfect on 4.

I may go and swap out the x for a stiff and compare. My other option would be to go a better low torque stiff like a Black Tie.

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In all honesty I think most s or x shafts are like one size fits all shirts. It doesn't matter what's on the end of the club. The shaft is what matters. Since experimenting with Miyazaki shafts that have the 4 digits flex codes I'm completely sold on the fact that you have the wrong shaft until you've been fitted for one. I use a Miyazaki tour black 4366 flex and it's perfect for my swing. Launch monitors don't lie so it's to your benefit to test shafts on one
 
I think 105 is probably on the low side to play an X flex shaft. But every swing is different. If your spin numbers are ridiculously high, an X flex "should" bring them down some. X in general will also bring ball flight down from the comparable shaft in stiff. BUT I think most players hit it lower than optimal anyways and this doesn't always help with overall distance.

The rule of thumb I subscribe to is play the most flexible shaft you can control. It will optimize your distance. I think another byproduct of playing a shaft that may be too stiff is the mental game it will play with you: feeling like you have to swing extra hard to "activate" the shaft properly. For me this leads to horrid results.

As always, if you can get on a monitor with S and X flex shafts, you should definitely see what works better for you.
 
golf4life said:
I think 105 is probably on the low side to play an X flex shaft. But every swing is different. If your spin numbers are ridiculously high, an X flex "should" bring them down some. X in general will also bring ball flight down from the comparable shaft in stiff. BUT I think most players hit it lower than optimal anyways and this doesn't always help with overall distance.

The rule of thumb I subscribe to is play the most flexible shaft you can control. It will optimize your distance. I think another byproduct of playing a shaft that may be too stiff is the mental game it will play with you: feeling like you have to swing extra hard to "activate" the shaft properly. For me this leads to horrid results.

As always, if you can get on a monitor with S and X flex shafts, you should definitely see what works better for you.
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My driver ss is usually about 102-105. Conventional wisfom says no way of x flex. Yet mizuno "swing optimizer" (I thinknthats what its called) recommends me dg x100, kbs tour x flex and another x flex I dont remember.

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kc720 said:
My driver ss is usually about 102-105. Conventional wisfom says no way of x flex. Yet mizuno "swing optimizer" (I thinknthats what its called) recommends me dg x100, kbs tour x flex and another x flex I dont remember.

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Yep, there's always exceptions to the rules. Quick transition among other things can mean stiffer shafts than one's total swing speed might indicate. In contrast to your mizunoe results, my driver SS is +/- 115 and Mizuno recommends soft stepped DGX100s for me, but when I was fitted I got better results with even less stiff shafts in the DGS300s. And now I'm playing lighter less stout graphite shafts than that to pretty good effect.

Tempo, transition and other things factor alongside swing speed for sure.
 
I agree with the trasition mattering. With the PL Red, when I am swinging great, the backspin goes as high as 5K+. Still carry it 275+, but it hits and rolls a few feet at most. The X brought the spin down, but the carry dropped a bit as did accuracy. I think the PL Red was way more accurate, but add some wind and you can get a little wild in the wind. I think my solution is a better version of the "PL red" style shaft which puts me in an Ahina or Black Tie territory in a stiff. My first try will be to drop to a stiff stock Adams Kuro Kage and see where it puts me in feel, accuracy and distance.
 
Mward said:
You could hook it by trying to swing too hard at it as well, but it'd be user error at that point.

That shaft is one of the stouter shafts out there. It takes a bit of firepower for that one.
Click to expand...

When I hook it, it usually is when i go for 80-85% power. I hit it great at 100%. But as you said, 100% often can lead to user error. I think baby steps from the PL red are in order and will make the most sense. The fitter at golfsmith was saying I could handle the X, but I hate the boardy feel and the misses are just too poor.
 
bigdaddy said:
When I hook it, it usually is when i go for 80-85% power. I hit it great at 100%. But as you said, 100% often can lead to user error. I think baby steps from the PL red are in order and will make the most sense. The fitter at golfsmith was saying I could handle the X, but I hate the boardy feel and the misses are just too poor.
Click to expand...

A proper fitting will get you situated and straightened out. Use the PL as your base and just go from there!
 
bigdaddy said:
I agree with the trasition mattering. With the PL Red, when I am swinging great, the backspin goes as high as 5K+. Still carry it 275+, but it hits and rolls a few feet at most. The X brought the spin down, but the carry dropped a bit as did accuracy. I think the PL Red was way more accurate, but add some wind and you can get a little wild in the wind. I think my solution is a better version of the "PL red" style shaft which puts me in an Ahina or Black Tie territory in a stiff. My first try will be to drop to a stiff stock Adams Kuro Kage and see where it puts me in feel, accuracy and distance.
Click to expand...
You could try pl red in x
i really like my rip beta 60 x.
My ss is pretty close to yours but like others have said ss is a small portion of shaft fitting.
 
I agree with golf4life about the shaft flex and trying to go with one that allows for the most flex but at the same time you can control. This will give you that extra distance, allows you to still work the ball like you normally pefer and gives you the consistency with the ball flight. I'm also on the high end of S and low end of X. I have 2 X's right now and absolutely love one of them but didn't do well with the other. And I have 2 S's as well in another driver, one that I love and one that I didn't do well with. It's the art of trial and error.

I will say that my misses with the X shaft that I didn't prefer were pull hooks. I think the shaft was too stiff and didn't have as much of that flex as I needed.
 
bigdaddy said:
I agree with the trasition mattering. With the PL Red, when I am swinging great, the backspin goes as high as 5K+. Still carry it 275+, but it hits and rolls a few feet at most. The X brought the spin down, but the carry dropped a bit as did accuracy. I think the PL Red was way more accurate, but add some wind and you can get a little wild in the wind. I think my solution is a better version of the "PL red" style shaft which puts me in an Ahina or Black Tie territory in a stiff. My first try will be to drop to a stiff stock Adams Kuro Kage and see where it puts me in feel, accuracy and distance.
Click to expand...

Check out the Grafalloy New Blue line. Lower launch/spin than the PL red (and only $80!) Just ordered a 65g X flex for my Amp Cell! If you are border line, go with the S flex as it is one of the more stout Stiff shafts on the market.
 
I've often wondered this same question. I've always played a S-Flex shaft in my club, and I don't think I'll change this set up. My swing speeds are similar to yours, in the 110 range (more of less) depending on how hard I go after a drive. For me it's all about launch angle and kick points now. My swing works well with a lower launch/high kick point. I use a 9.5* driver and when I want a little more loft I tee it higher just a fraction, and lower (into the wind perhaps) the opposite and tee it fraction lower.
With all that said, I have hit X-Flex shafted drivers before, and I've had no problems keeping them in play. Mainly, it's all about feel and with a S-Flex shaft, if I back off a drive that S-flex shaft allows me to do this with out hesitation. Do I think you could play an X-Flex shaft, sure you could (I could too) but my guess is you don't need to, just like I don't.
I think (for me to a degree) it use to be a "what shaft do you play"...who has a bigger ______, situation. It's not about that anymore, should never be really. It's all about who is in the short grass and what the score is at the end of the round.
Get fitted for you shaft if you want to know for sure, 100%....but your probably fine with a S-flex. IMO
 
Really need a proper fitting where you can see the ball flight outdoors not just on a monitor. I range from 110-117 depending on the day and still sometimes play a stiff shaft in my driver depending on the shaft. That said the flex of shaft nor the shaft model is going to get a spin that is 5000+ with a driver down to optimal it may help a touch but chances are you will have to change something in your swing to get that spin down to optimal. You have to be the one to decide if that is worth it or not for you to try and change something to get it down. Just for example a perfect drive with a Swing Speed of 110 and launch angle of 12 degrees and a Spin of 5000 is 261. Keep all the numbers the same but drop the spin to 3000 you get 281 yards. Just shows how much spin matters with the driver

I tend to think most people want to hit the ball to low. If you can keep you spin optimal you actually will get more distance with a higher launch than you will with a low launch. One of the reasons so many people go low launch though is control the spin as the two usually go hand in hand. Just for fun do the same thing as above 110 Swing speed, Launch of 12 Degrees, Spin 2500 you are going to max at 281 yards with the ball getting to a height of 89.7 ft. Now keep everything the same but increase the launch to 19 degrees (super high for a driver and not realistic to get that high but just an example to show high launch can be a good thing) you now will carry the ball 293 yards and the ball will have a max height of 149.6 ft.

Sorry for the ramble there but just wanted to show that it is not always a bad thing to hit the ball high so like you said worry about the spin but not so much the launch (even though they go hand in hand).

Have you tried different lower spin driver heads? Although the LS is pretty low spin.

If you want to see how different number changes will affect distance you can play with this site here

http://www.flightscope.com/index.php/Technology-Explained/trajectory-optimizer.html
 
I think that just having this doubt is enough to justify going back to a stiff. It's impossible to play your best when your doubting your ability to hit a good shot.
 
I play the fujikura speeder 7.2 tour spec x. I have an average driver swing speed of 122 with 127 on the high end and 110 after 18. When I miss it is right. However my misses since day one of golf have been right. I started choking down some time ago and I am finding that as long as I swing on plane Im set. If I don't I can hit it any direction.

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That is why I am wondering. The LS is very low spin for a head and the x may not be necessary to bring that spin down a bunch. The launch monitor looked great at the store, but I think I went 100% the whole time.

I had gotten fit last spring at Golftec and the recommended 3 shafts for me. The Prolaunch Red, the Ahina 60 and the Black Tie. The fitter thought the Black Tie was a "perfect fit" for my swing. I just had a hard time swallowing $300+ for a shaft. The Prolaunch was a good alternative, but my swing has improved a bunch this year as had my strength (I was battling cancer most of last year...)

I think I may see a Black Tie in my future. I have heard last years model of the LS actually had the Black Tie as the stock shaft. Maybe I find a new old stock of that in a stiff and unscrew it and slap it in this years model as the adapters are the same. All posts online show it as a real deal shaft, not made for even though Matrix has a different designation for it.

Might be a good game plan if the stiff Kuro Kage doesn't work out.

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bigdaddy said:
That is why I am wondering. The LS is very low spin for a head and the x may not be necessary to bring that spin down a bunch. The launch monitor looked great at the store, but I think I went 100% the whole time.

I had gotten fit last spring at Golftec and the recommended 3 shafts for me. The Prolaunch Red, the Ahina 60 and the Black Tie. The fitter thought the Black Tie was a "perfect fit" for my swing. I just had a hard time swallowing $300+ for a shaft. The Prolaunch was a good alternative, but my swing has improved a bunch this year as had my strength (I was battling cancer most of last year...)

I think I may see a Black Tie in my future. I have heard last years model of the LS actually had the Black Tie as the stock shaft. Maybe I find a new old stock of that in a stiff and unscrew it and slap it in this years model as the adapters are the same. All posts online show it as a real deal shaft, not made for even though Matrix has a different designation for it.

Might be a good game plan if the stiff Kuro Kage doesn't work out.

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Click to expand...

Bkack tie is a serious shaft. I know I cant properly load it. Kk silver is a very low launching and low spinning shaft too

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I can handle a low spinning low launching shaft in a STIFF. I think the KK in an X may be too much. Likely in a stiff I will be fine.

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My swing speed is barely over 100 and I've used an X-flex for years. It's not just swing speed that determines flex. Tempo is a big factor as well. On your downswing, the shaft bows and should snap back at impact. If a shaft is to stiff it won't "catch up" and if it has to much flex it will snap through to soon. Don't match your swing to a shaft, find a shaft that matches your swing.
 
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