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Par 3's on tour, some just way too long?

it all comes down to layout for the pro's. A long par 3 is ok but too many hazards make it ridiculous, but, without sand or trees or elevation changes, a hole looks pretty bland. Deadly short-mid length par 3's are much more fun to watch the pro's tackle.

Personally, hitting a long iron or more into a green is no fun, intimidating and a score wrecker. I had the 'joy' of playing a 225 yard par 3 recently that was slightly up hill and guarded on 3 sides by sand. The pin was tucked behind a bunker and in a spot where the green was narrow and impossible for my 3w to hold. I just took my lumps and planned for an iron-wedge into the green. Playing a hole where I have 0 chance of hitting a GIR is not fun. The next time I play there, I will choose another tee box.

A hole that is long for the sake of playing long has lost something.
 
One course around here has a 215yd par 4 followed by a 210yd par 3. I use the same tee club on each.
 
I marshalled this during the Hope/Humana a couple years ago...was interesting to watch the pros hit their 6 irons into/onto it. It really made me appreciate their control of distance.
Average player is challenged, but not daunted by it.

http://www.pgawest.com/club/scripts/golf/View_Course_Hole.asp?CID=521&HNO=17&GRP=9415&NS=GOLF_P

I was pretty amazed at the number of pros who missed or were towaards the edges of this one, too

http://www.pgawest.com/club/scripts/golf/View_Course_Hole.asp?CID=521&HNO=7&GRP=9415&NS=GOLF_P
 
Depending on the tee, if you can't get there with a 6-iron or smaller, it's too long...or you are playing from the wrong tee. This goes for the high handicappers and pros. Par three's should never be about the distance.

Naturally this is only in ideal conditions, wind, rain, temperature of course plays a role...sometimes you need a bigger club and sometimes not, but that's a whole different discussion.
 
I personally can't do much with a 200-220 par 3. We've got a few on my normal rotation of courses. One is level and wide open at 195, I can reach it with a hybrid easily so it's not that bad.

Another is 220 with homes on the right and trees on the left. I have to hit a 4w to get it there and I usually end up in the bunker on the left.

Those are two opposite ends of the spectrum, I don't mind the wide open one and have hot the green quite a few times. The other is so chock full of hazards AND windows I've never been able to stick the green and never been close to a birdie.

A 240 I have no prayer, that's an extremely lucky perfect contact 4w or a good driver (not likely).

180 is honestly the longest I feel like I really have a shot at.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Castor Hades said:
Depending on the tee, if you can't get there with a 6-iron or smaller, it's too long...or you are playing from the wrong tee. This goes for the high handicappers and pros. Par three's should never be about the distance.

Naturally this is only in ideal conditions, wind, rain, temperature of course plays a role...sometimes you need a bigger club and sometimes not, but that's a whole different discussion.
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Seriously? A 6 iron? I have a hole on the normal course I play with water on the right side. It plays 200-215.
I hit the green about 25% and the other 25% I end up right off on the left side because that is where I aim due to the water.
That is using a 4 iron. And I am by no means good.
 
Barberakb said:
Seriously? A 6 iron? I have a hole on the normal course I play with water on the right side. It plays 200-215.
I hit the green about 25% and the other 25% I end up right off on the left side because that is where I aim due to the water.
That is using a 4 iron. And I am by no means good.
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My maths isn't great but where does the ball go the other 50% of the time, or do I not wanna know? Lol.
 
Barberakb said:
Seriously? A 6 iron? I have a hole on the normal course I play with water on the right side. It plays 200-215.
I hit the green about 25% and the other 25% I end up right off on the left side because that is where I aim due to the water.
That is using a 4 iron. And I am by no means good.
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The original question was if the par 3's can be too long these days, for me reaching the green for a birdie putt is a key ingredient in this game, courses with too long par 3's should think about it and have the tees places accordingly.

As said, the par 3's shouldn't be about the distance, the challenge should be the green and the surroundings.

I'm not a big hitter, and 180+ yard par 3's are too long to my taste.
 
The thing is that pros can hit 230yrds with a 3 iron , so while it's far for us, it's still an iron for them. That said, I played the blues at my local course last weekend and par'd the 215yard par 3 with my 5w (stiff headwind) and a 2 putt. I don't think it's too far - it makes Luke Donald sound like a whiney Brit.
 
Now now, no need for that. If I said that an American player sounded like a whiny yank that'd not go down well would it? No one disagrees that the pros can hit irons far and well but even they struggle with long par 3's. Take the hole at Sherwood last weekend, it was brutal on the day the wind was blowing and there was no bail out area.
 
SaffaClint said:
Now now, no need for that. If I said that an American player sounded like a whiny yank that'd not go down well would it? No one disagrees that the pros can hit irons far and well but even they struggle with long par 3's. Take the hole at Sherwood last weekend, it was brutal on the day the wind was blowing and there was no bail out area.
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All I can think to say, that's why they get paid to golf and we pay to golf.

Fwiw, par is meaningless, it's just a number.
 
blugold said:
All I can think to say, that's why they get paid to golf and we pay to golf.

Fwiw, par is meaningless, it's just a number.
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Totally agree. The pros reach many par 5's wit mid-irons and I come up short on many par 4's with driver/3 wood. A hole of 240 is a difficult par 3 and a 288 yard hole is an easy par 4. Just do your best and move on.
 
SaffaClint said:
My maths isn't great but where does the ball go the other 50% of the time, or do I not wanna know? Lol.
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About 40% short front and 10% in the water
 
I couldn't care less if you said an American player sounded like a whiny yank. Some of them are.
 
They could play a 300 yard hole and call it a par 3 for all I care. They all have to play these holes, and they're playing from the farthest tees. I like to see these guys challenged. It makes it that much more fun when they pull something great off. I'd rather watch them play a 230 yard par 3 than a 130 yard par 3. They hit into greens at the shorter distances all the time. Spice it up a little.
 
Castor Hades said:
Depending on the tee, if you can't get there with a 6-iron or smaller, it's too long...or you are playing from the wrong tee. This goes for the high handicappers and pros. Par three's should never be about the distance.

Naturally this is only in ideal conditions, wind, rain, temperature of course plays a role...sometimes you need a bigger club and sometimes not, but that's a whole different discussion.
Click to expand...

Just wondering how this would be controlled for pro course setup? Tim Clarke was the shortest on tour last year, do you base it off of his distances?
 
Aren't long par 3's designed with the intention of testing your ability to hit a long iron?
 
Amateurs shouldn't be expected to hit long irons 220+
 
blugold said:
All I can think to say, that's why they get paid to golf and we pay to golf.

Fwiw, par is meaningless, it's just a number.
Click to expand...

That's the overall theme to this. They get paid because they're really good and should be able to perform pretty much every shot.

On another note, it goes with the character of the course. At my second home course in San Antonio, the first 6 holes are relatively easy and short, and then #7 is a 200-yard (240 from the tips) par 3 followed by a 462 yard par 4. Adds character to the course.
 
+200 yard par 3's are nothing new and not a sign that architects are getting out of control. My club was designed in 1915 and features a 235 yarder from the Whites. Other courses with similar distance par 3's (most if not all of these are from the White, or Middle, tees):

Rivera, #4, 225 yards from the Whites
Yale, #9, 213 yards from the Whites (widely considered one of the best par 3's ever)
Oakmont #8, 225 yards (288 yards from the Green tees!)
Cypress Point, #16, 225 yards (probably one of the most famous holes ever)
Fishers Island, #5, 207 yards
Winged Foot East, #17, 205 yards (albeit downhill)
Old MacDonald, #12, 205 yards (I know it's a newer course, but it's built to model CB's older courses)
Aroniminck, #8, 205 yards
Merion East, #17, 208 yards
Pine Valley, #5, 219 yards (widely regarded as one of, if not the best, course in the world)
Royal County Down, #4 (202 yards) and #14 (202 yards), both from the most forward tees for Men
Carnoustie, #16, 250 yards (I've heard this is a VERY difficult hole)

You guys get the point. Anyways, I put this list here to show that long par 3's have long been part of the game and course architecture in general. Almost all of these courses are ranked in the top 100 in the world (Yale and Old MacDonald are not, but are ranked in the US top 100), so they're certainly not being dinged for their longer par 3's. They test another aspect of your golf game, just like the shorter par 3's test other aspects.

I disagree with Luke that these longer holes aren't fun or imaginative. To be fair, he said +240 yards, but I'm juxtaposing what that would be for amateurs. At any rate, sure longer par 3's can be not fun or imaginative, but there are many on that list that are some of the most interesting holes in golf.

As far as what is too long, that's a good question. How did these guys back in the day play these longer holes and what would be a comparable distance by today's standards? I think it depends on how the hole is designed in general. More distance can probably be added if it's downhill with a generous lay up area, while factors like uphill/forced carry/green size/hole width affects an acceptable length.
 
Sergio had a hole-in-one on a 236 yard par 3 today.
 
I think the MAX for a par 3 should be 250, even from the back tees. At that point almost everyone has at least a hybrid-3 wood to reach depending on elevation, wind, conditions, etc.
 
I love my home club, but the Par 3s are killer!!

#7 - 210 - 190 carry over a MASSIVE gulch. Either a 5 or 7 wood for me. Tees were up (thankfully) over the weekend and it played 190. I hit 4 iron and was so happy!

#10 - 225 - I pull out 3 wood and hope for the best

#14 - 200 if the flag is in the back, usually a 7 wood

#17 - 140 - but elevated and literally have to hit the shot between two overhanging trees like a field goal, our signature hole

These holes can destroy a round
 
at my club we have a 90yard par 3 (SI 18) the tee is well below the green and it has a sloping green. It is a great hole with bunkers protecting it in front and the sides. If you miss the green then you have to hit a good shot to make par. This is what par 3's are all about.
 
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