Winter Rules - Yay or Nay?

[amsmith61]

Playing in a tournament aside - I don't have any problems with someone moving ball slightly because of standing water, mud or leaves during a normal round. Rocks and roots - again unless it is a tournament, I have no problems taking a drop within a club length. Our summers are short and there is no sense in someone getting injured or ruining equipment because of hitting it off roots or rocks.

 

[captaincaution]

I would disagree with this. The Rules state that local rules can only be instituted by the committee. That can be stretched to mean the course management, but I don't read it that way. I played in a tournament men's club for 22 years, and I can think of some 3 times when the committee invoked the preferred lies local rule, and that was for competitions. If they don't feel that it's needed to be fair to a full 144 player field, then why should I feel that way unless the conditions are at least as bad as what they were for those tournaments?

I agree with you for a tournament. For everyday play, there isn't a committee, and the course decides what local rules are in effect for the day.

The whole handicapping system is hogwash if a player gets to decide if he's playing by winter rules on a given day.

 

[Fourputt]

I'm not sure I'm getting the point you're trying to make here

Just that I won't play winter rules just because it's the off season like so many seem to just automatically do. I play by the rules year round. I've played when it's 40° and spitting snow and still played by the rules. Nobody is going to tell me that I have to play preferred lies, even in a couple of money games I occasionally play in. The difference in actual score is insignificant, so I don't do it. I just don't enjoy golf that way.

That's just me. It's how I'm wired.

I agree with you for a tournament. For everyday play, there isn't a committee, and the course decides what local rules are in effect for the day.

The whole handicapping system is hogwash if a player gets to decide if he's playing by winter rules on a given day.

My course doesn't. They have never in the 35 years I've played there posted any such notice. They leave it up to the players to decide what kind of golf they are going to play.

From an actual discussion with a USGA Rules instructor at a rules workshop: He told me that in any informal group of players, they are in effect their own committee, and can makes such decisions as they suit themselves as long as it doesn't come to making changes to the course. If your group chooses to invoke preferred lies or to ignore them, that's up to them. While not an official stance, this is how the both the USGA and the PGA of America view it.

Obviously, if handicap posting is involved, then there are other considerations. But even when preferred lies rule is invoked, the player is still the one who decides to partake of it or not. The player always has the right to play the ball as it lies except in a situation where play is prohibited for protection of the course or the environment.

 

[Mark_UK]

Winter Rules - Yay or Nay?

Just that I won't play winter rules just because it's the off season like so many seem to just automatically do. I play by the rules year round. I've played when it's 40° and spitting snow and still played by the rules. Nobody is going to tell me that I have to play preferred lies, even in a couple of money games I occasionally play in. The difference in actual score is insignificant, so I don't do it. I just don't enjoy golf that way.

That's just me. It's how I'm wired.

But if the course has winter rules in operation, then you are playing by the rules. If you are on the green and you have a clump of mud on the ball, do you mark the ball and clean it before hitting the putt? Of course you do. It's madness not to take the oppurtunity to clean a clump of mud of your ball on a full shot if the rules permit. I agree with your first line, if winter rules aren't in force at the course I'm playing, like at your course, then of course I won't lift clean and place. But as I said earlier, the rules of golf are there help as well as hinder. I'm gonna take advantage of a rule whenever it has the potential to help. Just like I'll take advantage of any local rules that allow a drop from a path, or allow me to move a stone from a bunker.

 

[Fourputt]

But if the course has winter rules in operation, then you are playing by the rules. If you are on the green and you have a clump of mud on the ball, do you mark the ball and clean it before hitting the putt? Of course you do. It's madness not to take the oppurtunity to clean a clump of mud of your ball on a full shot if the rules permit. I agree with your first line, if winter rules aren't in force at the course I'm playing, like at your course, then of course I won't lift clean and place. But as I said earlier, the rules of golf are there help as well as hinder. I'm gonna take advantage of a rule whenever it has the potential to help. Just like I'll take advantage of any local rules that allow a drop from a path, or allow me to move a stone from a bunker.

I've played mud balls many times, and it rarely has any noticeable effect on my shot. I've never played a course where they had declared or posted that winter rules were in effect. I don't even like the phrase "winter rules". Too many people think that it means tee your ball up on the nearest perfect lie. Even on the very rare times when the tournament committee did invoke the rule, we only got one scorecard length (about 8"), not nearer the hole, to place the ball, and in the fairway only. If you didn't find a perfect lie in that space, then you took what you could get.

The preferred lies local rule exists to cover the the problem of fair play if the course is such a dreary mess that normal play is impossible for closely mowed areas. It shouldn't be invoked just because of the possibility of the ball plugging in the fairway. That is already covered under a rule. This local rule should be invoked only on specific occasions, not as a blanket rule for several months. In my opinion, if conditions are so bad over a lengthy period that play is seriously affected, then the course should be closed for it's own protection.

It doesn't matter that you are allowed to improve your lie, you still aren't required to, and I choose not to unless it is a competition and the rule is instituted by the tournament committee.

 

[thewitt]

I think courses often invoke this just "because" and should not.

Play it down.

If the ball plugs, there is relief under the rules for that.

I particularly hate it when the Pros play lift-clean-and-place because there might be a chance they pick up a little mud on the ball.

I played a mud ball a couple of weeks ago in my normal round. Ball landed in a particularly wet spot in the fairway where the sprinkler was running overtime - in a drought condition. Most of the course is dry and hard as a rock, but where the sprinklers run, the fairways can be soft and mud is likely if you land there.

Play lift-clean-and-place in these conditions? Of course not.

Play it down unless the course conditions become unplayable. Not because there might be a chance to get some mud on your ball in the fairway.

 

[Borss]

The only lie I always improve is when there are rocks or gravel. I don't have a sponsorship and replacing clubs is expensive.

 

[Fourputt]

The only lie I always improve is when there are rocks or gravel. I don't have a sponsorship and replacing clubs is expensive.

This is one of the most common rationalizations I see when this topic comes up. It's perfectly fine if you don't want to hit from rocks, but really, take the ball unplayable penalty under Rule 28. After all it was your swing that put the ball in that lousy lie, so man up and add a penalty stroke for the privilege of moving your ball.