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What do you WANT or EXPECT out of a fitting?

Nippon Shafts
Six4three5

Six4three5

Tour Star...Layin' Up!
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I did a search and the threads on the subject didn't really cover what I want to. With a lot of THPers getting fittings recently, myself included I couldn't help but notice it seemed as if some, again myself included came away a little disappointed so to speak.

The two things I noticed from recent threads and for myself it's usually 1 of 2 things. Either the fitter doesn't really engage with you and provide the hard numbers you were looking for and why each club was giving the characteristics it was or the fitter/pro tries to give a lesson and fix what he thinks needs to be fixed instead of providing you specs of clubs that fit your current swing.

Take mine for instance, I had my fitting, hit off the Mizuno shaft optimizer and it recommend extra stiff shafts, I've never swung extra stiff, but I wanted to know why it provided extra stiff. Instead I just got to hit about 5 or 6 extra stiff iron shafts and was told to with what one felt best. While yes I agree what feels the best will give the most confidence, but I want to know what optimal numbers should have been, should I have been looking for a higher launch, more spin, etc.

On the other side I'm going to use Johnny Mojo as my guinea pig. If you have caught his thread it sounded as if the fitter did everything but fit him. It only confused him and it seemed as if instead of fitting clubs to his swing he tried correcting what he thought needed to be corrected on him.

So I ask my THP community, what do you WANT or EXPECT from a club fitting?
 
I expect an introduction, a warm-up, and then a base line with my 6 iron/7 iron or whatever they are set up to fit with. Then I expect to try a few different club models based of what I'm interested in (design, looks, etc), with various shafts selected from my baseline numbers. Then when I think I have what I need, I'd like to try the ideal set up with one stiffness level softer/harder than the ideal set up just to be safe. If doing a full bag fitting (or most of the bag), I'd split it up over two visits - maybe irons and wedges one day, then hybrids/woods/driver on another. I spent 4 hours at my last fitting and was really out of it by the end and will definitely split up fittings next time.

On the finished product I want to see the numbers - each clubs total weight, swing weight, loft, and lie - just to verify that I'm getting what I'm paying extra for.
 
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I think people expect too much after reading the stories from some of the really big or high end places. Not saying that is the case in the instances you mentioned by the way. Just in general.

I also think people have an unrealistic impression of what they can accomplish through things like shaft changes. Or they give too much credit to a shaft change as the reason they saw big differences in launch numbers.

Trackman and dozens of shafts is great. Probably 100% unnecessary for the majority of people imo.

I don't know. The controlled environment makes a 1 hour fitting a less relevant than its made out to be in many instances.
 
Hawk said:
I think people expect too much after reading the stories from some of the really big or high end places. Not saying that is the case in the instances you mentioned by the way. Just in general.

I also think people have an unrealistic impression of what they can accomplish through things like shaft changes. Or they give too much credit to a shaft change as the reason they saw big differences in launch numbers.

Trackman and dozens of shafts is great. Probably 100% unnecessary for the majority of people imo.

I don't know. The controlled environment makes a 1 hour fitting a less relevant than its made out to be in many instances.
Click to expand...

I agree with this 1 million percent.
 
I tend to think that it's not rocket science. If the person being fit has a repeatable move which should only take a handful of swings to determine, then a fitter that knows and understands the process SHOULD be able to take the customer through a series of options that would help to find the best possible, or at least better equipment to use in conjunction with that swing etc.

We discuss getting fit and the absolute need for it in order to get the most out of our equipment. If its unnecessary for the majority, then why is it brought up so often as something that should be done when starting the game or getting new clubs?

JM
 
I tend to think that a fitting should include a baseline and then a concise testing of 3-4 shafts that fit the profile that the fitter feels is best. Don't have to hit every shaft in the catalog, but I appreciate doing a bit of due diligence.

Hawk can you expand a bit on what you mean? I know a lot of people here recommend a fitting to get the most out of their equipment, but you think it's not as relevant for the masses? Just wondering for the sake of convo
 
Lol, didn't see JM's post basically asking the same thing. Sorry about that.
 
Sure will. Lemme get this baby to bed and I will be back.
 
I WANT hard numbers for different heads and for different shafts and I EXPECT that it won't turn into a lesson. Yes, I know my swing sucks...good thing I'm not on Tour.
I've yet to find a place that offers what I want or expect for less than $400 so I will continue to self-fit and struggle because of it haha.

While I agree that some golfers put waaay too much emphasis on shafts and what they can do I think it's just that they are doing things in the wrong order. If you simply cannot attain good results when hitting a driver a shaft change isn't going to magically change it. But if you find a driver that works for you and then swap shafts in order to obtain either better numbers, a better flight, or both it can work wonders.
 
I've never had a specific club fitting with all the options available these days. If I was looking for equipment, the things I want and expect are to hit balls outside with all the available shaft/head options and let me narrow down the options on my own based on what I see and feel. After that a fitter can do what they do and help me out and make suggestions.
 
I think hitting balls outside is a huge thing for me. Hitting into a net with a laptop telling me where the ball went just doesn't do it for me at all.
 
I want consistency, I want close or better than I currently have, I want someone that listens to what is important to me, I expect them to deliver and not over complicate it.
 
I will add though that it does put a fitter in a tough spot if a guy comes in with a really inconsistent and non-repeatable swing. Is he supposed to recommend a club or shaft based on the 1 or 2 good results out of multiple swings?
 
I have been thinking about this since I have one tomorrow and here are my thoughts... I want consistency, improvement where it is needed and since it has been so long since I have been fit, I want that feeling of knowing I am playing the beast possible equipment for me and to have one less doubt within my game


Proud Member of #TeamParadise
 
I'm just hoping to leave my fitting with a good amount of confidence that the clubs I'm going to end up playing are the clubs that are best for me.
 
I don't want much.

A fitter who: shows up on time, gives me his attention for that time frame, and answers my question.

I don't think that is too much to ask. I can deal with not walking away with a sheet of numbers, if the choices or recommendations are explained well enough.
 
Ok, sorry about that. There's a few reasons I say what I said. First of all, for most people shafts don't make the big difference they think they do, though for others they do. A lot of that is based on the repeatability of the swing, the soundness of the swing, and when/how they are releasing the club.

If you're a swiper that tosses up fades with a bunch of spin, nothing is going to change that. You might see some slight differences, but the reality is that you're going to have high spin numbers whether you put a Black Tie or a Pro Launch Blue in there.

I'm not saying fitting is bad. I'm saying that people think a fitting is going to get them to this magical place of perfect launch conditions and it's just doesn't happen that way for most. For a guy with a textbook swing, yea they can narrow things down a little to get things as close to ideal as possible. A guy with a semi-repeatable swing with a multitude of flaws? Not really, though if they are smart they can plan for misses and pick some things to help them there.

Should you play the right flex and length and lie angle? Absolutely. Does it matter if you're playing a PXI or a KBS Tour or DG XP? Imo, probably not. Of course they feel different, but the reality is that you can fit a profile pretty easily. I'm a guy that tosses up lower spin balls with an early release. Give me something soft feeling that will help me get height. In the last week I've tested three completely different weight shafts, two graphite (60g and 85g) and one steel (102g) in different 8 irons. The differences were minimal. Hundreds of RPMs of spin. 1mph of ball speed. A degree of launch or two. That translates to basically nothing in terms of yards. I will say I like the way two of them feel much more than the other, which is why I'd rank them above the one, but that's not fitting.

Then, we come to the location, which for the vast majority is inside or on a mat somewhere. Hitting the ball in a situation that is completely foreign to what golf really is. Anybody can swing out of their shoes on a sim, because it doesn't matter where the hell the ball goes. Get them outdoors and that may change quite a bit. I know it does for me. Mats hide flaws (if you let them, which many will do). Swings are different when a person has to deal with the results.

That said, I'm not saying it's bad. I'm just saying that we have the expectation that we 1) need to know the numbers 2) need to get the perfect numbers 3) need to hit a bunch of shafts and heads and somehow one of those combos is going to deliver big results. The truth is, people probably shouldn't pay attention to the numbers because they forget about their misses and start chasing perfection. Again, this is more geared towards 'average' players, but if you're hitting the same iron head and pop in a somewhat similar shaft and suddenly see 7mph more ball speed - that's not fitting. That's just a coincidence or you're finally getting your timing right.
 
The biggest thing is engagement and interaction. We're seeing a fitter because we know that we want to improve our gear, but want to know what would be the best next step, or some alternatives, to make that happen.

It starts with some questions: "Where's your game at right now?" "What's your handicap? Your biggest miss? Best shot shape? What club are you hitting for 150 yards?" Even though this is mostly irrelevant for the actual fitting, that level of engagement builds some confidence that they're trying to fit you not to overhaul your swing or your game, but to give you some new gear to make it better.

From there, during the hitting process, I think the periodic "How did that last shot feel? Good? Because it looked like this:" then the hard data. If there's a ball fitting or you're hitting the fitted ball, saying it's more or less spin than your baseline, or a comparison between what clubs they're hitting now and what's in their bag is always good.

The fittings that seemed to have produced the most happy customers, that I've read, have involved engagement and interaction. The ones with the least satisfaction seem to have had a lack of interaction. Right now that's what I'm looking for the most in a good, comprehensive fitting.
 
Thanks hawk. That's a great explanation. It makes a lot of sense and I appreciate you taking the time to type that out
 
Makes perfect sense the way you explained it Hawk. Thanks for taking the time.

JM
 
People expect way to much from fittings IMO and also expect way to much from shafts to fix their flights and stuff. When I go I want to hit stuff on a monitor get a couple one or 2 shafts with good numbers and then go hit them outside to see what they are doing. Because I don't always trust what the monitor is saying. I like a good dialogue with the fitter talking about what he's seeing and what I'm feeling. I like learning from them. They see a lot and should know a lot as well. I've even learned some great tips while getting fittings. I don't go into a fitting and expect much anymore because I've had enough to know what to expect for the most part but if I get numbers and find a combo that works for me and learn something about myself and my numbers I'm usually happy.
 
Hawk said:
Ok, sorry about that. There's a few reasons I say what I said. First of all, for most people shafts don't make the big difference they think they do, though for others they do. A lot of that is based on the repeatability of the swing, the soundness of the swing, and when/how they are releasing the club.

If you're a swiper that tosses up fades with a bunch of spin, nothing is going to change that. You might see some slight differences, but the reality is that you're going to have high spin numbers whether you put a Black Tie or a Pro Launch Blue in there.

I'm not saying fitting is bad. I'm saying that people think a fitting is going to get them to this magical place of perfect launch conditions and it's just doesn't happen that way for most. For a guy with a textbook swing, yea they can narrow things down a little to get things as close to ideal as possible. A guy with a semi-repeatable swing with a multitude of flaws? Not really, though if they are smart they can plan for misses and pick some things to help them there.

Should you play the right flex and length and lie angle? Absolutely. Does it matter if you're playing a PXI or a KBS Tour or DG XP? Imo, probably not. Of course they feel different, but the reality is that you can fit a profile pretty easily. I'm a guy that tosses up lower spin balls with an early release. Give me something soft feeling that will help me get height. In the last week I've tested three completely different weight shafts, two graphite (60g and 85g) and one steel (102g) in different 8 irons. The differences were minimal. Hundreds of RPMs of spin. 1mph of ball speed. A degree of launch or two. That translates to basically nothing in terms of yards. I will say I like the way two of them feel much more than the other, which is why I'd rank them above the one, but that's not fitting.

Then, we come to the location, which for the vast majority is inside or on a mat somewhere. Hitting the ball in a situation that is completely foreign to what golf really is. Anybody can swing out of their shoes on a sim, because it doesn't matter where the hell the ball goes. Get them outdoors and that may change quite a bit. I know it does for me. Mats hide flaws (if you let them, which many will do). Swings are different when a person has to deal with the results.

That said, I'm not saying it's bad. I'm just saying that we have the expectation that we 1) need to know the numbers 2) need to get the perfect numbers 3) need to hit a bunch of shafts and heads and somehow one of those combos is going to deliver big results. The truth is, people probably shouldn't pay attention to the numbers because they forget about their misses and start chasing perfection. Again, this is more geared towards 'average' players, but if you're hitting the same iron head and pop in a somewhat similar shaft and suddenly see 7mph more ball speed - that's not fitting. That's just a coincidence or you're finally getting your timing right.
Click to expand...

I will say this, as a means to prove your point, nothing else.

I had Nippon 950s in my Nike irons last summer. They were a stiff flex.

I was seeing high launch angles and a peak height of +140'. And an early release. My instructor threw a DGx100 into a iron head. Peak height went down but it was still way above optimal. We have been working on holding that wrist angle. Amazingly, I was closer to peak height and optimal spin.

Was that a fitting? Instruction? Both? Dumb luck?

Unfortunately I lean towards dumb luck.
 
I think expectations vary depending on the type of place you're going to and what you pay. If you're going to a (pricey) place that has all the high tech goodies to get all the information you could imagine, you're going to expect to take longer, hit more options, and have a lot of information given to show what's happening and what you should go with. If you're going most places the average golfer is going to get to, checking loft/lie/length, different flexes of shafts, and maybe feeling some different size grips is probably all that fits the bill. I think you need to have an idea of what the facility has available and understand the limitations of what can be done because of that. It is important to let the fitter know up front if you'd like to hit some different oem's clubs or even different head profiles. Trusting and communicating well with the fitter I think goes a long way. As long as you let the fitter know what you're wanting to get, and he is asking questions to help get you where you want, you'll have a positive experience.

That's at least how I see it and what I would want going in to a fitting. I would love to go into a high tech fancy shmancey place sometime, but I also enjoyed my low tech fitting I went through when I was fit last.
 
I honestly have no idea.
 
for me I got everything and more from my fitting. If you read my write up that is what I was looking for. But finding the right person I know helps.
 
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