Golfers Tracked by GPS to Speed Play as Rounds Near 4.5 Hours

[mikeg_74]

Without copying the whole post I think very well said and great points. People are under a false illusion with the logic in thinking that the negative issues within the game are the reaons masses more are not playing it. Truth is most of the negaitives only mean something to those who are playing and most people who dont play and never played dont even know about them. There are many other important reasons as you said.

But i still dont know why the golfing population feels as though everyone has to play golf. Almost like as if golf should be forced down peoples throats to get them to come. It is a passtime and a hobby and a desired recreation just as is any other unnecessary recrteation the general population choses to spend the time and money to do if they want to and if they can.

People involved in any such recreations should try to advocate for them so they dont die off and i do understand that. But this miguided logic with golf that every household should consist of a golfer is rediculous. I mentioned earlier it already is (even if on the decline) probably still the most popular recreation there is. There are far more households with golfers than probably any other "time and money consuming" type of recreation. A recreation that is one of time and money will always be subject to current economy status and also a plain and simple general interest in it.

I think the reason for the alarm is the financial impact it's having on revenues. People managing courses aren't taking in the $$ they used to and are scrambling to recapture the lost revenue. I agree golf isn't for everyone. While I welcome people to learn and enjoy this game, do it within the rules & don't look for the easy way in. If I take up skiing, surfing, cycling, etc. I don't expect a different set of rules or conditions so I can say I participate or make it easier. Like I said earlier we have grown into an instant gratification bunch, & we know golf requires patience & kicks your butt as much as it provides joy.

 

[Vegan702]

I see a lot similarites in golf as I do poker. After poker got popular on TV we would get a ton of people sitting at the table who thought they were poker pros. They take a lot of time to make decisions about their hand, want to stare you down to try and get a read on you, want to showboat constantly only to make a bone head play and look like a fool. Everybody sees it on TV and wants to be like them. In the mean time all they have done is slow the game down so we see less hands per hour and irritate the rest of the table. In golf it is the same way, you will get people out on the course who watch golf on TV and think because they see the pros discussing every shot with their caddy, taking numerous practice swings, walking back and forth on the greens to try and read a putt, that it is OK. Mean while watching these guys for 18 holes all that happens is they chunk the ball down the fairway, blow the putts 15ft past the hole or leave 15ft short and they repeat this over and over and over for 18 holes. I am fine with taking your time but if you have groups behind waiting on every shot when there is room ahead of you, pick up the pace and maybe only take 1 or 2 practice swings before every shot if you need a practice swing, spped up your green reading or puttings, etc so you don't back up the whole course. Practice on the range not on the course. It is good to have the fish at the table for their money as it is good to have them on the course as it helps keep fees lower, but speed it up a little please.

 

[BallJazz]

Very true, didn't think of that.

Championsgate has GPS and has been known to send message to groups that fall behind. It also displays how far behind a group is in relation time started. I'd think this data would be more than enough to draw conclusions on why groups are slow

Cart GPS systems only show that groups are slow, not why. A tracker on every player is exponentially more valuable.

 

[rollin]

"Forputt" i dont hink a lot of your responses to my posts are views I am not in agreement with. I certainly would never say we should burry our heads and ignore problems. They will all only get worse if we took that road. I dont want 3 hr 9's and 6 hr rounds just as much as anybody. But those are not the norm at most places. People talk of the 4 and1/2 hr round like its the 6hr round and a lot of them are never even in 5 to 6 hr rounds on a regular basis. Some even feel (as been said) 3 hrs is plenty and i'm sure there are others too.

My dad and uncles who played in the 70's always talk of how it wasnt much different. 5hr rounds etc. I have heard others make mention from time to time as well and even some on here have done that too but i guess that all depends on what parts of the country/world one is from.

Pace is a problem and things must be done to prevent the problem and mostly by the players themselves as you say. If all rounds always took 6hrs on a constant basis it would kill the sport. But the sport imo isnt on the decline because the average is 4:40 vs if it was 4:10. If thats even corrct perhaps on wekends i guess. but I dont think that in itswelf is what will get the masses playing. Its a problem but not the end all be all to getting the masses involved. Too many other reasons exist.

 

[sposey013168]

I like a nice pace of play, but I think ideas of making courses easier is not the answer, and example we have a couple local courses in the springfield area that are not hard courses and guess what they have some od the longest rounds in the area.

 

[mikeg_74]

I see a lot similarites in golf as I do poker. After poker got popular on TV we would get a ton of people sitting at the table who thought they were poker pros. They take a lot of time to make decisions about their hand, want to stare you down to try and get a read on you, want to showboat constantly only to make a bone head play and look like a fool. Everybody sees it on TV and wants to be like them. In the mean time all they have done is slow the game down so we see less hands per hour and irritate the rest of the table. In golf it is the same way, you will get people out on the course who watch golf on TV and think because they see the pros discussing every shot with their caddy, taking numerous practice swings, walking back and forth on the greens to try and read a putt, that it is OK. Mean while watching these guys for 18 holes all that happens is they chunk the ball down the fairway, blow the putts 15ft past the hole or leave 15ft short and they repeat this over and over and over for 18 holes. I am fine with taking your time but if you have groups behind waiting on every shot when there is room ahead of you, pick up the pace and maybe only take 1 or 2 practice swings before every shot if you need a practice swing, spped up your green reading or puttings, etc so you don't back up the whole course. Practice on the range not on the course. It is good to have the fish at the table for their money as it is good to have them on the course as it helps keep fees lower, but speed it up a little please.

I 100% agree etiquette is hard to teach and too many are playing on the course and not understanding the little nuances of how to get around the course efficiently and still have a good time. Too many want to replicate what the TV showed them, and that's fine, but understand you can't do this and ignore the others on the course. Part of the solution is playing from the right tee boxes, the other is if you have newer players who are not consistent, have them drop up by the guys that are in play instead of looking for balls, re-teeing on OB shots, etc.. Plenty of other ways to increase speed of play, but again this isn't the reason golfers are not playing this game.

 

[rollin]

I see a lot similarites in golf as I do poker. After poker got popular on TV we would get a ton of people sitting at the table who thought they were poker pros. They take a lot of time to make decisions about their hand, want to stare you down to try and get a read on you, want to showboat constantly only to make a bone head play and look like a fool. Everybody sees it on TV and wants to be like them. In the mean time all they have done is slow the game down so we see less hands per hour and irritate the rest of the table. In golf it is the same way, you will get people out on the course who watch golf on TV and think because they see the pros discussing every shot with their caddy, taking numerous practice swings, walking back and forth on the greens to try and read a putt, that it is OK. Mean while watching these guys for 18 holes all that happens is they chunk the ball down the fairway, blow the putts 15ft past the hole or leave 15ft short and they repeat this over and over and over for 18 holes. I am fine with taking your time but if you have groups behind waiting on every shot when there is room ahead of you, pick up the pace and maybe only take 1 or 2 practice swings before every shot if you need a practice swing, spped up your green reading or puttings, etc so you don't back up the whole course. Practice on the range not on the course. It is good to have the fish at the table for their money as it is good to have them on the course as it helps keep fees lower, but speed it up a little please.

Hey FWIW and another topic but I dont hink they should allow those guys to wear galsses and hoods and hats to cover up everything. Kind of defeats the prupose of a pocker playerand term "poker face" imo isnt that supose to be part of it . Sometimes it looks like a bunch of monks or grim reapers sitting there. And whatever happened to the days of wearing a sport coat and dressing like gentlemen while in a casino. I'm too old fashion i guess

 

[dhartmann34]

Interesting concept....I'm not sure finding the bottlenecks will immediately improve the round speed, but I think it could certainly lead to a lot of suggestions that would help. I think skill level at times has a bit to do with the amount of time it takes to play a round of golf. I've seen a few articles that have talked about different times for different handicaps...which obviously is pretty insane and would probably never be able to get done. But at least folks are trying to come up with ideas.

Honestly, at least in my neck of the woods and I'm assuming in most others, life has gotten so busy and fast. People want something now and don't want to wait. It's led to a lot of folks not playing golf....or spending their 'golfing' time at the range or the new rage TopGolf. Although when I get out on a weekend around here, it sure doesn't feel like no one is playing....But I don't see the course much during the weekdays either.

 

[BallJazz]

I wonder how many people really believe that if golf never took any more than 4 hours (even 3:50 i dare to say) that masses of people will then flock back to golf courses and masses of new people will take up the game? lets be honest, thats is a pipe dream. There would probably be a very small percentage of existing players who left the game come back and perhaps some more rounds played by those who currently play but it would not be enough to equate to any measurable significance imo. For people who dont have the time, that is still a lot of time one must put aside to play.

The masses are not going to all of a sudden show a passion for golf because of this. The pace problem is a huge issue but its really only a huge issue within the existing golfing population. It is not why millions more people are not playing. No matter what, golf takes a good chunk of time to play. If the average round played is 4:40 (and i think thats high) plus the time to get to the course and check in etc plus the time to get home That 4:40 becomes 5:40 or 6 hrs in total. If all of that took 45 minutes to 1 hour less it will be much better for the current players but it will never be enough to create any large meaurable influx of the masses imo.
Most people who dont have a 6 hour window from home to back home they are also not going to have a 5 hr one. It just isnt going to matter much for that purpose. It is still a big chunk of ones day no matter what.

Even if it doesn't bring people back (which is your assumption), it could have a significant impact in the total number of players simply by lowering the rate of attrition.

According to the data in this article there were 24.5 million players at the start of 2013. 2013 saw 3.7m (15.1%) new players, while 4.1m (16.7%) left the game, for a net loss of 400k players. If the USGA can make recommendations that lead to a reduction in the rate of attrition to 13.7% (a 3 point drop), that would mean over 1m more golfers in 3 years.

It sounds like the purpose of this study is to ultimately affect the second half of the equation. I'm sure other efforts are being made to bring in new players as well. I'm encouraged by this approach and think the USGA should be given some credit for once.

 

[TripleBogieTim]

I like the fact that they are collecting data and trying to do something about it....I really have no problem with golf taking 4 hours or so per round, as others have said, I do have a problem with the hit a ball wait 10 minutes and hit another ball approach.

If I have to wait at every tee box then something is wrong.

I played my home course Wednesday evening and the rough in several places is ankle deep!! This is thick Bermuda round too.....HELL, the US Open rough is about the same...if the PGA tour guys play 1 or 2 inch rough on a normal basis then why are we playing 5-6 inch rough??????????

Nothing is worse that hitting a decent tee shot just along the edge of the fairway, drive up to where the ball was and it trickled just into the rough....then spend 5 minutes trying to find a ball that is 1-2 feet off the fairway!!! We had 2 in our group last weekend that only were found because someone stepped on the ball...both were less than 5 feet off the fairway.....ridiculous for a public course.

I'm not sure what this data will provide but at least it's a start. I also wonder how many of these pocket GPS are going to end up lost.

I suppose it would have been too forward thinking to use golf courses with GPS enable carts to trajectory rounds around d the country. But it is the USGA

I wondered that too Freddie, I mean at the Lake Charles Invitational they gave JB a cart that had the screen programed so he could see the pace of play of all of the THP groups....and everyone of us came in UNDER their recommended pace of play.

 

[tahoebum]

I think cost and difficulty of becoming proficient at the game are a bigger issue than pace of play. Fast players are not the ones quitting the game, IMO. The ones I know find a way to play early or late in the day when they can play faster. Some fast players like myself wind up joining a private club where the pace of play is 4 hours even during peak weekend hours. I never considered giving up the game during the 15 years I played mostly slower public courses, Although I certainly played fewer rounds and avoided the slowest courses.

 

[Brianbigoats]

A local course i play at has GPS that show how ahead or behind pace you are it is very cool

 

[rollin]

A National Golf Foundation survey in 2012 showed that 58 percent of avid golfers said 4 hours and 30 minutes is “too long.” That’s eight minutes longer than the average time the group found for a round on public U.S. courses.

The above is quoted from the OP quote. The study showed the ave round played on public u.s. courses is 4:22 in 2012.
This is not the 5 and 6 hour rounds many talk of. They are the not the norm.
And being this is an average it would suggest that for every round played at 5hrs there is one also played at 3:44. And this is on public courses to boot. This is not the over exaggerated logic that everyone is taking 5 to 6 hrs to complete rounds everywhere on a daily basis. Nor does it suggest you will be in for 2.5 to 3hr 9hole rounds

So this whole logic that masses will flock to golf courses if this average comes down some is just not valid. We must eliminate the extra long rounds for sure but the problem as a whole on average is just not there where many are placing it. Lets not allow it to get there but most are simply unhappy, complaining and claiming they cant play because they don't think anything over 4 is acceptable. Right or wrong its not even close to those who must endure the 5 to 6 hr round. But again that is not the norm. It does take a long time to golf period. 4:22 ave hours plus travel etc is a long time but that doesn't mean its so very wrong. And it certainly doesn't mean masses will hop aboard if that went down 10 or even 20 minutes. Most who don't or never played are not even aware of the 5 to 6 hr rounds. Ask anyone who doesn't play how long they think golf takes and most I bet most will say about 4 hrs or so and they still don't play. And sometimes its because they don't have that kind of time anyway.

Golf does take time to play it and it takes a lot of time from ones day even if pace is good. I'm not saying we don't have pace problems and they do need to be addressed but on average our pace issues only mean something to us who currently play. The masses who don't play because of time are not swarming in if we drop our average to 4:10 or even 4:00 from the now 4:22

 

[Fourputt]

A National Golf Foundation survey in 2012 showed that 58 percent of avid golfers said 4 hours and 30 minutes is “too long.” That’s eight minutes longer than the average time the group found for a round on public U.S. courses.

The above is quoted from the OP quote. The study showed the ave round played on public u.s. courses is 4:22 in 2012.
This is not the 5 and 6 hour rounds many talk of. They are the not the norm.
And being this is an average it would suggest that for every round played at 5hrs there is one also played at 3:44. And this is on public courses to boot. This is not the over exaggerated logic that everyone is taking 5 to 6 hrs to complete rounds everywhere on a daily basis. Nor does it suggest you will be in for 2.5 to 3hr 9hole rounds

That is an average round. That means it includes 5 weekdays and Saturday and Sunday. Weekdays inevitably play faster on most courses than weekends because the load is lighter. Those 5 weekdays are going to skew the numbers to make them look a lot better than they really are.

Since my retirement 7 years ago I've played both weekday and weekend rounds, and the weekday rounds would average out to at least 20-30 minutes less than those on the weekend. If they want to gather statistics which have relevance to the players who are the real target of this issue, then they need to gather weekday and weekend stats separately. I can guarantee that the difference will be enlightening. Weekends are what are most available to the family man or woman, and that means that this is when they have to take care of all of the familial responsibilities on those two days, and then still find time to recreate. A four hour round is going to look more attractive than a five hour round, pure and simple.

 

[rollin]

That is an average round. That means it includes 5 weekdays and Saturday and Sunday. Weekdays inevitably play faster on most courses than weekends because the load is lighter. Those 5 weekdays are going to skew the numbers to make them look a lot better than they really are.

Since my retirement 7 years ago I've played both weekday and weekend rounds, and the weekday rounds would average out to at least 20-30 minutes less than those on the weekend. If they want to gather statistics which have relevance to the players who are the real target of this issue, then they need to gather weekday and weekend stats separately. I can guarantee that the difference will be enlightening. Weekends are what are most available to the family man or woman, and that means that this is when they have to take care of all of the familial responsibilities on those two days, and then still find time to recreate. A four hour round is going to look more attractive than a five hour round, pure and simple.

Very much agreed and I would add.
With all said above the weekend worrier and casual weekender is the cause of pace issues on the weekends. If thats when the biggest problems pop up then it is the very people we are trying to lure to the sport who are the ones causing the problem in the first place. 42% percent (close to half) of avid golfers don't even think 4n1/2 is considered too long. It would then stand to reason that even more than that percentage of the casual weekenders don't view it as a problem or even longer than that as a problem. That's just too many people who don't see the issue.

I'm sure just about anyone (with few exception) would feel 5 or more is too long. But if those rounds are mostly happening on weekends then it is those very people we are trying to recruit more of who just don't care and are causing the issue. We want more of the masses golfing but then we don't want them to take too long. If majority of them don't care and cause it all in the first place then the more who play, the worse things will get. It unfortunately can be a catch-22 situation.

 

[Tadashi70]

Cart GPS systems only show that groups are slow, not why. A tracker on every player is exponentially more valuable.

Can you give me examples of specifics that the pocket gps will track that a cart won't. And how that data will assist in speeding up play.

 

[Fourputt]

Very much agreed and I would add.
With all said above the weekend worrier and casual weekender is the cause of pace issues on the weekends. If thats when the biggest problems pop up then it is the very people we are trying to lure to the sport who are the ones causing the problem in the first place. 42% percent (close to half) of avid golfers don't even think 4n1/2 is considered too long. It would then stand to reason that even more than that percentage of the casual weekenders don't view it as a problem or even longer than that as a problem. That's just too many people who don't see the issue.

I'm sure just about anyone (with few exception) would feel 5 or more is too long. But if those rounds are mostly happening on weekends then it is those very people we are trying to recruit more of who just don't care and are causing the issue. We want more of the masses golfing but then we don't want them to take too long. If majority of them don't care and cause it all in the first place then the more who play, the worse things will get. It unfortunately can be a catch-22 situation.

I don't see it as "don't care". I see it as "don't know" how to do any different. It was already bad when they came into the game and in many (if not most) cases they don't know that there ever was a faster pace. They don't know that holding a bull session in the middle of the fairway is not how they are supposed to do it, because they have never had a proper example to follow. Every round they have ever played has been slow with lots of time spent waiting, so they haven't learned any pace of play etiquette. On the rare day that they aren't being held up, they still follow the same bad habits and end up being the holdup. It is necessary to educate before you can even begin to move in the right direction.

 

[Fourputt]

Can you give me examples of specifics that the pocket gps will track that a cart won't. And how that data will assist in speeding up play.

How much time is spent beating the rough looking for balls for one. I don't mean out in the trees, but just in what the course considers to be manicured or mowed rough. 1/2 inch of cut height can make a big difference, as can a slight increase in fairway width.

 

[Rhyno]

I feel like they should have made this an app do anyone could download it.

 

[beeDoubleU]

I feel like they should have made this an app do anyone could download it.

Great point. It's hard to believe someone hasn't done that yet.

Sent from my LG-MS770 using Tapatalk

 

[rollin]

I don't see it as "don't care". I see it as "don't know" how to do any different. It was already bad when they came into the game and in many (if not most) cases they don't know that there ever was a faster pace. They don't know that holding a bull session in the middle of the fairway is not how they are supposed to do it, because they have never had a proper example to follow. Every round they have ever played has been slow with lots of time spent waiting, so they haven't learned any pace of play etiquette. On the rare day that they aren't being held up, they still follow the same bad habits and end up being the holdup. It is necessary to educate before you can even begin to move in the right direction.

education, awareness, and understand things is surely the biggest flaw of all. I do love your term "bull session" That made me laugh.

How much time is spent beating the rough looking for balls for one. I don't mean out in the trees, but just in what the course considers to be manicured or mowed rough. 1/2 inch of cut height can make a big difference, as can a slight increase in fairway width.

if the issue is due to the ignorance of the masses towards the situation as you say (and I agree) then in all honesty why should we tame down the golf courses? The fix must come from a education and example geared towards a general awareness that there is actually a problem. You pretty much are saying this and I would agree and with that. The issue is the person not the golf rough or fairway width. I play in those situations and do not take 5 hrs ever (with no one in front) and I'm not real good at golf shooting 90 and 100.

I don't always want the easiest rough and wide fairways just because too many others don't understand pace. Its only late spring and early summer the rough even gets that thick anyway in the northeast. Early spring then mid to late summer and certainly the autumn its not the case anyway as even if its taller its not as thick. I want to play the intended designs of the course and experience the different times of the year on them. Those ignorant to the situation will still be just as ignorant to it all no matter what we do to the courses. Lets not imo change our golf but as you say lets educate them as that is the only real answer. How to do that? I don't really know.

 

[Fourputt]

education, awareness, and understand things is surely the biggest flaw of all. I do love your term "bull session" That made me laugh.



if the issue is due to the ignorance of the masses towards the situation as you say (and I agree) then in all honesty why should we tame down the golf courses? The fix must come from a education and example geared towards a general awareness that there is actually a problem. You pretty much are saying this and I would agree and with that. The issue is the person not the golf rough or fairway width. I play in those situations and do not take 5 hrs ever (with no one in front) and I'm not real good at golf shooting 90 and 100.

I don't always want the easiest rough and wide fairways just because too many others don't understand pace. Its only late spring and early summer the rough even gets that thick anyway in the northeast. Early spring then mid to late summer and certainly the autumn its not the case anyway as even if its taller its not as thick. I want to play the intended designs of the course and experience the different times of the year on them. Those ignorant to the situation will still be just as ignorant to it all no matter what we do to the courses. Lets not imo change our golf but as you say lets educate them as that is the only real answer. How to do that? I don't really know.

I personally think that some courses have been made difficult just because they think that they are the next thing to the US Open and can't get past the ego trip. I'm not talking about eliminating rough. I'm just saying that it doesn't have to be a three inch deep mass of tangled pea vines to serve the purpose. Two inches is plenty of rough to get the job done and give headaches to the typical golfer, but it will still let the player find his ball without a 4 minute search, and get a club on the ball when it is found.

Every time I mention this you freak out like I'm asking for no rough at all. I don't know what you are used to, and since I've never seen you never mention where you are located, I can't even estimate the sort of conditions you might be used to. In my home area in Colorado, most public access daily fee courses keep the rough at a manageable level - that includes some really nice layouts costing upwards of $100 to play. The manicured rough is long enough to affect the shot but not so long that balls are constantly lost, or that a player can't advance the ball reasonably.

My home course has decent rough. Between mowings it can get just long enough to be on the edge of too much, but it never quite gets there. Our native rough is virtually unplayable, but it's also well off the fairway, and it takes a bad shot to get into it. When you hit a really poor shot you should have to pay a price for it, and you will. The guys I play with still don't lose a lot if time because when we get near the really tall stuff, we know to play a provisional and don't spend much time looking for a ball which is unlikely to be playable anyway. But for just a slightly bad shot into the mowed rough, you should usually only have to pay a slight penalty, and you shouldn't be risking a lost ball 5 feet off the fairway.

 

[rollin]

I personally think that some courses have been made difficult just because they think that they are the next thing to the US Open and can't get past the ego trip. I'm not talking about eliminating rough. I'm just saying that it doesn't have to be a three inch deep mass of tangled pea vines to serve the purpose. Two inches is plenty of rough to get the job done and give headaches to the typical golfer, but it will still let the player find his ball without a 4 minute search, and get a club on the ball when it is found.

Every time I mention this you freak out like I'm asking for no rough at all. I don't know what you are used to, and since I've never seen you never mention where you are located, I can't even estimate the sort of conditions you might be used to. In my home area in Colorado, most public access daily fee courses keep the rough at a manageable level - that includes some really nice layouts costing upwards of $100 to play. The manicured rough is long enough to affect the shot but not so long that balls are constantly lost, or that a player can't advance the ball reasonably.

My home course has decent rough. Between mowings it can get just long enough to be on the edge of too much, but it never quite gets there. Our native rough is virtually unplayable, but it's also well off the fairway, and it takes a bad shot to get into it. When you hit a really poor shot you should have to pay a price for it, and you will. The guys I play with still don't lose a lot if time because when we get near the really tall stuff, we know to play a provisional and don't spend much time looking for a ball which is unlikely to be playable anyway. But for just a slightly bad shot into the mowed rough, you should usually only have to pay a slight penalty, and you shouldn't be risking a lost ball 5 feet off the fairway.

Not freaking out in the slightest bit. No worries there at all.
One of the problems with written communication is that the intended tone and meaning of the writer can easily be misunderstood especially when some disagreement enters the content.. If we had this conversation in person I assure you it has not been one with any kind of heated arguing on my part at all as that is not how I'm feeling when writing these comments and not how I am taking any of it from you either. I am truly in the mindset its just a friendly respectful debate. In fact until you mentioned me getting freaked out I didn't even think this was any kind of heated argument at all. Trust me its truly not meant to be that way. I don't even disagree with much of what your saying.

 

[jdb1911]

I'm not sure what this data will provide but at least it's a start. I also wonder how many of these pocket GPS are going to end up lost.

I suppose it would have been too forward thinking to use golf courses with GPS enable carts to trajectory rounds around d the country. But it is the USGA

I agree. One of the courses local to me in Long Beach, CA. Skylinks golf course tracks your round on the cart and tells you if you are behind or ahead and by how many minutes. It's a great idea because you notice it everytime you are getting yardage. I love their carts because it also ticker tapes sports scores like the bottom of espn. I have only seen one other course with this sort of set up in Southern California.

 

[Tadashi70]

How much time is spent beating the rough looking for balls for one. I don't mean out in the trees, but just in what the course considers to be manicured or mowed rough. 1/2 inch of cut height can make a big difference, as can a slight increase in fairway width.

Rough that long on public or resort course is rare in Florida. Maybe after some serious rain but for the most part off fairway drives are easy to find. I just don't see any specific details being taken from the personal gps.

I think most slow play is three guys watching he other guy hit and then switching to the next guy. Most don't at ready golf and that's what slows up play. Or the high cap. acting like he is in the us open or in tour. It just don't take that long to get yardage off the cart or GPS, choose a club and swing.