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Shots from under 50 yards - how many do you need?

Veryslowsnail25

Veryslowsnail25

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This question occurred to me a while back when watching the Scottish Open and seeing the pros get very creative with some of their chip/pitch shots, bouncing some in or varying the trajectory with different clubs. I think I'm like most amateurs between 10 and 20 in that for the most part, my distance control on the full swings is ok - nothing fantastic, but it generally goes the same length, just not always in the right direction! However, I really find the half, 3/4 swings and other shots trickier to judge, say from 100-50 yards. Anything below 50 yards, I'll use my 58* and I think I've got pretty decent control from there with various shots.

Really, my question is: around the green (from under 50 yards) do you vary the types of pitch/chip shot you use to get different trajectories/rollouts/spin etc? If so, how do you go about doing it and is it something particularly worth practising? Additionally, would you recommend the Pelz clock method or going for 1/2, 3/4, full swings?

Thanks, interested to hear all your thoughts!

P.S. sorry if this is in the wrong place - first thread here!
 
http://www.thehackersparadise.com/forum/showthread.php?25644-Dave-Pelz-s-Short-Game-Bible

That's a great thread if that is something you may want to try. I used this to really get started in working on my short game. The book is excellent overall, but it can get down in the weeds a bit.

Another great thread is
http://www.thehackersparadise.com/forum/showthread.php?26259-Short-Game-Shape-Up-JB-Goes-To-Work

Within this thread JB talks practice strategies, and some of the other THP'ers talk different practice methods as well.

To answer your question:
I'm working on gaming all the various shots you mention. But, I will normally fall back to the one I know I have the absolute best chance of getting close to the hole. I like to pitch the ball with minimal roll out.
 
I try to use the "get the ball on the ground as quickly as possible" theory. The sooner you do that, the easier it is to hit a decent shot for us inconsistent amateurs. It's a lot easier to get a decent result out of a 40-yard bump-and-run than it is a 40-yard 58-degree wedge. Sure, occasionally you'll knock the wedge stiff, but if you really keep track, you'll likely find your misses with always playing the high shot are worse.

Rather than adjusting my grip or swing, I usually just vary the club I'm using based on the situation.

As for technique, there's two major schools of thought I've seen - the Pelz "3x4" system, and the "feel" system. Personally, I'm a feel player. The Pelz system is too mechanical for me.

For a feel player, gravity is what is important. Your central nervous system is a gravity expert. You can predict with great accuracy how hard you need to hit the ball to get it over there. But you can only do so if you're using gravity. Once you take gravity out of the equation, your body doesn't know what to do. Beyond that, making an outstanding shot is a matter of solid contact and predicting the correct amount of roll out, both of which you also have to do in the Pelz system.
 
For me, I really try very hard not to leave myself that awkward distance. I started a few months ago laying up on par 5's to around 100 yards. That way I have a smooth sand wedge in. If I do happen to leave myself a shot around 50 yards or so, it will really depend on where the flag is and if I have to carry a trap or something. If it is wide open and the pin is in the middle to back, then I will usually hit a punch shot and let it roll up. I am better at that than trying to fly it a certain distance and stop quick.
 
I have three shots that I might try and hit from 50-60 yards, all with the 60º wedge. One is high that will stop where it lands. This has the least room for error and the hardest to judge, so it is the least used. Mostly just for when the hole is in the front of the green and there is nowhere short to land the ball. I think I just open the club and the stance a bit and make sure I'm hitting down through the ball so it gets up in the air. One is a lower shot with the old hop and stop. This is the one I use the most probably. It is the easiest to control and has a pretty good margin for error. You can be a little short or long and not get yourself into too much trouble. Pretty much just playing the ball back in the stance with the club face square and give it a good descending blow to make sure it spins. The last one is a release shot. Used mostly for a back hole. I'm just trying to get the ball to the middle and let it roll towards the hole. Hardest thing is to control the spin so it doesn't stop. I hit it the same as the last one, but try and maintain the swing speed throughout so it doesn't spin as much.

I adjust the back swing all the time to make a club go to different lengths. It just takes practice to get all the feels down and figure out what works best. You can even double the effect by adjusting your grip and choking down an inch or two. Doing both and you can turn one club (not just a wedge) into 3.
 
I have always exclusively used partial swimgs of my 58° from 50 and in. I have, however, been experimenting with various pitch and run shots lately dependening of how much green to work with, what length of grass is between me and the hole, etc. I have seen more pretty good results utilizing 9 iron and PW pitch and run shots instead of always going with LW.
 
from 90 and in i am using partial wedge shots 60* most of the time
 
T2GRN18 said:
http://www.thehackersparadise.com/forum/showthread.php?25644-Dave-Pelz-s-Short-Game-Bible

That's a great thread if that is something you may want to try. I used this to really get started in working on my short game. The book is excellent overall, but it can get down in the weeds a bit.

Another great thread is
http://www.thehackersparadise.com/forum/showthread.php?26259-Short-Game-Shape-Up-JB-Goes-To-Work

Within this thread JB talks practice strategies, and some of the other THP'ers talk different practice methods as well.

To answer your question:
I'm working on gaming all the various shots you mention. But, I will normally fall back to the one I know I have the absolute best chance of getting close to the hole. I like to pitch the ball with minimal roll out.
Click to expand...

Thanks, will definitely give these a read over the next couple of days!
 
wadesworld said:
I try to use the "get the ball on the ground as quickly as possible" theory. The sooner you do that, the easier it is to hit a decent shot for us inconsistent amateurs. It's a lot easier to get a decent result out of a 40-yard bump-and-run than it is a 40-yard 58-degree wedge. Sure, occasionally you'll knock the wedge stiff, but if you really keep track, you'll likely find your misses with always playing the high shot are worse.

Rather than adjusting my grip or swing, I usually just vary the club I'm using based on the situation.

As for technique, there's two major schools of thought I've seen - the Pelz "3x4" system, and the "feel" system. Personally, I'm a feel player. The Pelz system is too mechanical for me.

For a feel player, gravity is what is important. Your central nervous system is a gravity expert. You can predict with great accuracy how hard you need to hit the ball to get it over there. But you can only do so if you're using gravity. Once you take gravity out of the equation, your body doesn't know what to do. Beyond that, making an outstanding shot is a matter of solid contact and predicting the correct amount of roll out, both of which you also have to do in the Pelz system.
Click to expand...

I've always found the bump and run the one shot I really can't play, but I'd like to try to practise it. I imagine it'd be about a quarter swing with an 8 iron that carries half and rolls half, or am I way off?
 
After starting the thread I headed out to our local 9 hole course and had the first hole to myself for an hour so I did a bit of mucking around trying to gauge distances. Here's what I ended up with:

58* - 1/2 swing = 30 yards, 3/4 = 55/60, controlled full = 80
54* - 1/2 = 35, 3/4 = 55, controlled full = 90

The thing that I found really odd was that my half and three-quarter swings with both wedges were pretty much identical... Hopefully when I get the approach wedge (51*) I should be able to close a few gaps, notably 70 and 100.

I did also play around with the 1/2 swing by pushing the ball further forward and flicking the wrists a little to get a bit more check, with some success. Will definitely give StlCardsFan's hop and stop a go as well though, as that could be really useful.
 
Veryslowsnail25 said:
I've always found the bump and run the one shot I really can't play, but I'd like to try to practise it. I imagine it'd be about a quarter swing with an 8 iron that carries half and rolls half, or am I way off?
Click to expand...

The choice of club is dependent upon the situation. Here's a decent video that explains the basic idea:

 
For those interested in the "feel" method, check this out:

 
As far as how many shots do you need, I would say 3. You want something high, something medium with lots of spin, and then the bump and run. I only have 2 of these and have always struggled with a bump'n'run.
 
A lot of it depends on trouble or what is between me and the hole in general. If I need to carry a lot with no overhead obstruction, I use my 60* wedge and take it back to a a little less than half and expect a little roll out. If the shot allows I will pitch with my 52 and get it rolling asap. That is what I have been practicing the most. Working on not trying to be too cute with the chip and check method. I find that I leave that well short for a longer putt.
 
I like the Stockton principle that we want two shots around the greens - low and high (but not medium). I don't always execute it right, but that's generally my goal. From further out I am a big fan go the Pelz 3x4 (clock) system.
 
Within 50 yards I usually use my 56 and use a half swing that puts a nice low, high spinning trajectory on it. That's how I approach anything within 75 yards. When I am playing regularly (1-2 times a week) I know I can put that shot within 10 feet every time. Even when I am not playing as regularly, such as this year, I can still hit that mark most of the time. The putting...well that's another story. Some days I'm on and I hit everything within 10 feet and other days I two putt from there
 
From under 50 yards, I have a few shots to hit, depending on the conditions.
Everything from a high lob with my opened up 58* wedge to a brushed hybrid.
If I am close enough and the fairway is tight enough, I have started putting from the fairway on some.
Right now my favorite and most confident shot is a chip and short run with my 52* wedge. I have holed out 6 or 7 of those this year.
 
For me it depends on pin location, obstacles I Igbo have to carry. I agree with those with 3 shots, high, low and medium. I will use a 58* or my PW/9i to perform the three. My instructor is always reminding me to get the ball on the green and rolling as quickly as possible.
 
I like Dave Stockton's approach of only having two shots and learning to use them to different distances. A lot of it comes down to feel, learning how hard to hit different clubs to get them to the same yardage. That way if you have a yardage to get to the front of the green, you can use different clubs to get more rollout after you get on the putting surface. Some of this depends also on your equipment, specifically what wedges and what ball. I've recently switched to wedges that generate much more spin (IMO) so I'm a little more confident with flying a shot closer to the stated yardage than I was before and letting the ball check.

I think for a mid-to-high index player, it's a matter of simplifying your short game as much as possible. Ensure that if you are over a shot with a wedge in hand, the shot after this one is with the putter. Everything else is gravy after that.
 
Cheers all for the comments, it's really useful. Dunno about most people, but it love practising the short game so I'm excited to give all of these things a try :)
 
I liked how Stockton broke it down in his Unconscious Scoring book. There are two shots: High and Low. Once you master those then there are a bunch of variations to each of those you can use.

For me its about where I want the ball to land and whether I want it to roll or drop and stop. Depending on that its either hit it high or low.

Start with two shots and learn from there.
 
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