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Slow Play - How Long Does It Take You?

If I play as a single first thing in the morning, with no waiting I can be done with 18 in two hours (with a cart) 3 hours walking.

4 hours with my like minded fast playing buddies (4some with carts - sometimes quicker)

I like to play fast, I don't think golf should take longer than 4 hours.
 
Any round over 4 hours is too slow IMO (Unless the course is particularly spread out - poor design). A 4 hour round still leaves plenty of time for a foursome to play 18, look for balls, chat it up, smoke some cigars, and stop at the turn.
 
wadesworld said:
One problem is that people's definition of what constitutes slow play is different.

I do not consider myself a slow player. I laser my shot (if doing so) from the cart. I have my club pulled and I'm standing by my ball while I'm waiting. When it's my turn, I take my one practice swing and then hit. Most groups I play with, I'm out of the cart and have hit my tee shot before the rest even get up onto the tee. I go back to the cart, put the club away quickly and then am ready to move to the next shot. If it's cart-path only, I take 4 clubs out to my ball to ensure I have the right one. I try to be efficient in my cart movement and my planning. I move to the next tee before writing down scores.

With that said, while I certainly can play fast, I don't consider myself a super-fast player either. I'm going to take my one practice swing. I'm going to take some care lining up my 4-foot putt. I enjoy being out on the golf course, and as long as my group is keeping pace, I'm not going to run around at a breakneck pace just so I can sit and wait more. I am just as annoyed by the guy behind me demanding to finish 18 in 2.5 hours as I am the guy in front of me that's on a 5-hour pace. If the course is clear in front of me, I can generally finish in 3-to-3.5 hours, which I think is perfectly reasonable.

I don't really know that you can blame the PGA tour. Yes, they do often play slowly, but it's crazy to expect them to step up and "just hit it" when they've got tens of thousands of dollars riding on each shot, not to mention perhaps the difference between keeping their card or not. Where they could improve I think is in shot preparation. Often you'll see them waiting, and then once the green is clear, they'll start their discussion about what club to pull and the 2-3 stroke practice swing routine. If they would concentrate on doing all that while they're waiting, things would speed up considerably.

Honestly, I think it's a combination of things that lead to undue slow play. In no particular order they are:

1) Golf carts. Honestly I believe the game would be faster if more people were walking, not fewer. Cart path only days are HORRIDLY slow and even the 90-degree rule slows things down. The need to move from ball-to-ball is the biggest factor in slowing things down. When walking, both players can go straight to their own ball.

2) Players' reluctance to pick up. I play a lot of rounds at a low-cost course which attracts a lot of people new to the game of golf. I'm amazed at how often I'll see someone hit their 6th shot into a bunker, then hit 3 shots to get out of the bunker, and then still go putt. Or the infamous, "I'm going to reload" on the tee.

3) Players' general cluelessness. I see situations all the time where people are still sitting in their cart while the group in front is walking off the green. Or they'll go up to the green with their ball not yet on, and they'll only have one wedge. When they find out they have the wrong wedge, they have to go all the way back to the cart. And of course they'll hunt for that TopFlite like the fate of the world depends on it.
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A slow player is a slow player, whether they are walking, riding, flying or skipping.

Studies have been shown on both sides, but if you take players that understand the game, the golf cart will finish faster every time. And if you add in ANY distance between green and next tee, the time difference is not even close. For some reason every time it comes up, it turns into this thing where all the walkers know exactly how to play ready golf and the cart users are clueless. Take 16 golfers and put them out at the same time. All either clueless or all avid. The cart wins every time...I know this because we have done it. On average it was not very close.
 
I joined a private course to get away from slow play. It was either that or give up the game. At my home course I have had only one round over 4:10 in the last 5 years, that one took 4:20. Only about 1 in 10 weekend rounds takes more that 4:00 hours at my course. Typically an average foursome round is 3:30 - 3:45 and if I'm out playing with just my 9 year old daughter during the week who shoots about 65 for 9 holes, it takes about 70 minutes. Alone as the first one out on the course with a cart I consistently play in 95 minutes if I'm not rushing.

i do think that slow play is one of the main reasons golf is not a growth sport.

I would play more public or resort golf if everyone learned to play at a 4 hour pace, but I don't think that will ever happen. There are just too many clueless golfers out there who's preshot routine takes a minute or more. You don't need to be good at golf to be a fast player, just play ready golf and don't take so damn long before a shot!
 
What's funny is that if people are sort of berated to play fast by a forceful starter, they do. Perfect example is last year's IL Invitational. We were told we'd be invited to leave if we finished in over 4:20 and like magic everybody made it in at around 4 hours.
 
I had another round on Sunday that made me turn my head sideways who don't like to be "rushed". My dad and I paired up with two strangers, one of who was a very good but rusty golfer who didn't have anything over a 3 hybrid in his bag. The other was a self proclaimed "bogey golfer" who was obviously very new to the game, and struggled quite a bit. There were 3 groups waiting on the first tee, so I figured we were in for a long round. None of us made any attempt to play quick, since there was always a group in front of us. We waited a good bit on the front, but it opened up on the back and we only waited a few times. I assumed we were in for at least a 4:30 round, when I looked it had been 4:05. It just shocks me anybody but 4 very new people would struggle to maintain that pace. We were playing at about 6400 yards, and considering my dad hits it about 210-220, the beginner struggled to hit it that far and one of the guys had no woods or driver, I would hardly say we were teeing it forward.
 
Slow(er) play has forced a change in my golfing habits. My family size and ages dictates that I just do not have 4 hours or more to dedicate to one activity in a day as a rule. I play twice a week, but 95% of my golf is played during Twilight hours. During the summers here, I can go out as late as 19:00 and still have close to 3 hours to play at the height of summer. These days I go out around 18:00 and can get about 2 hours in. I do things like keep optic yellow balls in my bag to get an extra 20 minutes in from where I lose the ability to follow a white ball.


Playing in the evening is usually much faster for me. I am almost always playing alone. I can get 9 holes in 2 hours or less. Some days I will play two off the tee and track each ball separately to get "18" in. If there is slow play in front of me, I will usually drop balls and take practice shots to kill the time instead of nipping at their heels.


But when I go play during the day, I always set the expectation that it will take 5 hours. Sadly most of the time I am close to right about that. But in my experience, the level of play is directly related to the slowness. At some point in the round the courses I play are laid out where you can see a few holes ahead and can identify the group that is holding everyone up. I also get to watch golfers go past my back yard daily. Those roadblock groups are never made up of good golfers just taking their time. They are always made up of players that struggle to get the ball airborne, zig-zagging down a hole 50 yards at a time in some cases. And while I fully support people getting into this game and don't begrudge them playing, there also comes a point where you need to pick up your ball and move it forward.


If I blame anyone, I blame the marshals. I have never, not once, seen a marshall push people along. When they drive by me on a slow day, if I make a comment about it I inevitably get what amounts to a shrug as a response. If it is a league playing slow, they make it clear that they will never try and push a league.


As an extreme case, I was held up massively BY a marshall one time. He was going through the greens with a stamper tool designed to fix ball marks. He methodically went back and forth, hole after hole. I was held up as much as 5 minutes a hole waiting for him to clear. I lost track of the number of times I wanted to fire away at the green in frustration. I was too stubborn to skip a hole and play on, I admit that. After the round I made a very vocal complaint to the manager about this, and I haven't seen that guy on the course since so I suppose that did have some results. But these "marshals" don't care to do their job other than to mark your receipt at the first hole, and hang out in their golf carts - many times chatting with other marshals.


But in the end though, I think the real reason the courses are so slow is that the courses are losing money hand over fist and are so desperate to have anyone come play that they go to the extreme of not getting involved with the players unless there is no other option. The inmates have taken over the asylum, at least in SE Michigan.
 
Usually it's about 3:30 to 4 hours, which isn't too bad, but there are times or stretches of holes where it seems like we are just waiting and waiting.
 
Two big factors I forgot to mention:

1) Playing the wrong tees. Too many players are playing too far back

2) Courses causing slow play with their setup. If you're a $40 a round public course, you REALLY don't need 4" thick rough and 3 par 3's over 180 yards. A local course here has a par 3 which plays 195 from the whites, with bunkers on the right of the green and a deep ravine on the left. Needless to say, like clockwork, groups are always backed up on that hole since most groups are doing good to have 1 player out of 4 hit the green.
 
Great article- my home course has a few jogs in between holes and it takes me 3.5 at most to walk solo, in a group anything over 4hrs in carts is slow over 4.5 is super slow.

Playing the right set of tees would help most play faster, I see too many hitting long irons hybrids into average length par 4's.

Course design is also a factor having holes with forced carries or layups/second shots that are too long for most to pull off slows the game way down.
 
We played 18 holes in exactly 4 hours the other day. Very surprised when we were finishing up and I saw the time. Packed course, a slight wait on every hole, but nothing unreasonable. For the first time in ages we had a proper starter, actually announcing who was up, who was on deck, and who was in the hole. It definitely kept the pace off the first tee moving.

If we hit 4 hours for 18 holes here it is a miracle. Usually we are 2.5 hr 9's and 5 hour 18's, which is very frustrating. I just find it difficult to justify driving somewhere here for an hour or two hours, and then a 5 hour round, and then another hour or two travel back. The guys I play with also want to stop for a meal or drinks after the round too. Its not that I am trying to be anti-social, but a regular weekend round I don't want a 5-8 hour time committment.
 
wadesworld said:
2) Courses causing slow play with their setup. If you're a $40 a round public course, you REALLY don't need 4" thick rough and 3 par 3's over 180 yards. A local course here has a par 3 which plays 195 from the whites, with bunkers on the right of the green and a deep ravine on the left. Needless to say, like clockwork, groups are always backed up on that hole since most groups are doing good to have 1 player out of 4 hit the green.
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Big emphasis on this. For a non-tournament round, a course doesn't need super deep rough and the toughest pin placements you can find. Pin placements on the edge of a ridge isn't cool when people insist on putting out every hole!
 
My buddy and I walked 18 holes last weekend in 3 hrs and 30 minutes. We weren't trying to play fast, we just both walked to our balls and hit them. When my buddies and I play on the weekends and the course is crowded it almost always takes 5 hours which drives me crazy. In my opinion the biggest culprit is people looking for their damn balls for wayyy too long.

I understand balls are expensive, and I understand losing a ball is frustrating, but you hit it there and the ball is gone. Unless you're playing for some serious money, drop a ball, and get moving.

Another big problem I have is the way courses are set up. Unless you're hosting a tournament, there is zero reason for the rough to be so long. All it does is cause people to play poor shots out of it, and lose balls which they then spend 10 minutes looking for.

People waiting for par 5's to clear doesn't really bother me, because the last thing I want is to get hit into. However, the problem I do have with it is the strategy behind it is so dumb. You are not good at hitting your 3 wood off the deck, maybe you hit 1/50 close to the green. You are however pretty good at hitting a 7 iron, and it will give you another shot that you're comfortable with to set up a possible birdie, and a much higher chance at par.
 
wadesworld said:
Two big factors I forgot to mention:

1) Playing the wrong tees. Too many players are playing too far back

2) Courses causing slow play with their setup. If you're a $40 a round public course, you REALLY don't need 4" thick rough and 3 par 3's over 180 yards. A local course here has a par 3 which plays 195 from the whites, with bunkers on the right of the green and a deep ravine on the left. Needless to say, like clockwork, groups are always backed up on that hole since most groups are doing good to have 1 player out of 4 hit the green.
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Why should someone have to pay more for tough conditions. People want to feel like they get there money's worth
 
Tadashi70 said:
Why should someone have to pay more for tough conditions. People want to feel like they get there money's worth
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How is hacking through thick rough "getting their money's worth"? I would think that a well-maintained course with easier rough would be more popular as scoring and the experience itself would ostensibly be better.
 
Tadashi70 said:
Why should someone have to pay more for tough conditions. People want to feel like they get there money's worth
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I agree with him to some extent. Having public courses with high traffic have areas that conceal balls is just asking for slow play.
 
How long does it take? I recently played 45 holes with a cart as a single on a pretty open course. I averaged @2:15 per round and I was not racing at all. The question becomes harder to answer when you add in more players, a busier course, a hard course, etc. My expectation is usually in the 4:30 range.
 
I'm curious, why 9 hole rounds aren't more popular. If you don't have 4 hours to golf, why not take 2 hours to play 9? It's still golf, it still counts.

I don't believe that slow play is the #1 culprit for stagnant growth. Walking doesn't speed anything up, slow is slow.

I am not pointing fingers to anybody here with this last point. But too often players believe that their pace is the pace that everybody should abide to. Also, the course typically uses foursomes to determine the recommended pace of play, to go off as less than a foursome and believe that your group's pace is the benchmark, is not fair IMO.
 
blugold said:
I'm curious, why 9 hole rounds aren't more popular. If you don't have 4 hours to golf, why not take 2 hours to play 9? It's still golf, it still counts.

I don't believe that slow play is the #1 culprit for stagnant growth. Walking doesn't speed anything up, slow is slow.

I am not pointing fingers to anybody here with this last point. But too often players believe that their pace is the pace that everybody should abide to. Also, the course typically uses foursomes to determine the recommended pace of play, to go off as less than a foursome and believe that your group's pace is the benchmark, is not fair IMO.
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Because playing a 2:15 minute 9 holes is just as aggravating as playing a 4:30 18 holes.
 
Wadesworld- Completely agree with #1. I'm a decent golfer, and I average about 275 with my driver, but I never play from the tips. The biggest reason is just because I can hit it far, doesn't mean I'm going to everytime, and I have way more fun hitting PW-7 into a par 3 then I do hitting a 4 iron. Also, I do not hit my 4 iron like a 9 iron, and if you don't either, then MOVE UP.
 
Only speaking for myself, I have no problem with a 9 hole given a sub 3 hour window to prevent 18… it's just that $14 for 9 vs. $18 for 18 that makes me go !#@#$@.

LOL

Back to the slow play topic, playing solo walking two days ago, took 2:45, yesterday in a cart at a different course it was more like 2:25. When I play with a foursome it seems like it's rare to get under 4 hours.
 
Wake said:
Because playing a 2:15 minute 9 holes is just as aggravating as playing a 4:30 18 holes.
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I am not speaking towards the aggravation. But if it's simply the amount of time it takes to accomplish golf 18 holes, why not golf 9 and then spend the remaining hour sharing adult beverages with friends and colleagues.
 
I actually had a pretty eye-opening experience last weekend with regards to slow play (and it was all my own fault). I was playing with a buddy and we were a two-some with a cart, and ahead of us there was a three-some with two walkers and 1 in a cart. Naturally myself and my buddy were having to wait on the three-some ahead of us on most holes, and at the same time getting a little frustrated they wouldn't let us play through as they had couple holes clear ahead of them. Anyways, after being behind them and letting myself get frustrated that they wouldn't let us play through, I figured the round was in the 4+ hour range. I couldn't have been more wrong, checked the time after the round it we finished in under 3 hours (right around 2 hours and 45 mintues give or take a couple minutes).

Anyways, I know this isn't typical for everybody, but it was honestly a shock to me to realize that I was getting frustrated simply because I had to wait a little bit between shots. And it obviously caused me to exaggerate the time it was taking to play. Now having said that, I still think the three-some ahead of us should have let us play through since they didn't have anybody else in front of them, but I've realized that just because someone isn't letting you play through, it doesn't mean they are just a slow group because under 3 hours is definitely a reasonable time to play 18 holes of golf.
 
I don't think I'm too slow... I played 9 yesterday with my buddy. We were in a cart and I finished in just under 2 hours. He continued on to play a few more holes but I had to stop. We had to await on several holes for a 5 some that was slowish... and there was a 4 some in front of them so there wasn't really a way we could play through without hopping several holes ahead.

I thought we were running longer than we did because of the 5 some but it was because we had to wait for them... but it only added a few minutes to the round.
 
Wake said:
I agree with him to some extent. Having public courses with high traffic have areas that conceal balls is just asking for slow play.
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I agree if everyone is having the same issue but always seems to be a few groups only.
 
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