The biggest issue here is whether or not it is constitutionally legal to "imprision" a US Citizen without their consent for a non criminal incident.

With the understanding that Ebola is a physical condition, as it relates to mental conditions, one can be institutionalized if one is found to be an endangerment to themselves, and more importantly, to others. By some sort of extension, I would hope the same would apply to physical disease endangerment as well.

My concern with our approach to Ebola is that it appears certain assumptions are being made based on our current knowledge of the disease. From what I can gleam, there is still a lot to be confirmed regrading its transmission and treatment protocols. We should not be making decisions based on the perception that the chances are low. They may, indeed, be low, but low still denotes a possibility-a possibility that must be recognized regarding not only how we treat but who we treat as well. For all we know, the virus could be mutating. Even without such circumstances as Ebola, infection control under normal circumstance, is one of the most difficult concerns for a hospital to address.
 
The facts belie the science. Thousands of people are dying from the disease in Africa. It is getting transmitted, and it appears to be happening pretty easily.
I'm going to disagree with you. A lot of the people in Africa are getting infected when cleaning up after loved ones, or taking care of their bodies after death. We're talking third world countries where a number of amenities we take for granted are not available to them. Here in the US, most (a large majority) people will seek treatment when they are not at their most infectious which means bodily fluids will be contained in a hospital setting with proper precautions taken. Additionally, if people die, family members will not be dressing the body for burial, which also presents a HUGE infection potential.

You can't compare there, to here. It just isn't possible and is pretty well borne out by the fact that while several people have been treated in the US for this infection, only one has died. We're doing things differently here, and that matters.
 
The facts belie the science. Thousands of people are dying from the disease in Africa. It is getting transmitted, and it appears to be happening pretty easily.
That's where location matters.

The disease isn't more or less transmittable.

But the health care is worse, living conditions are worse, how they handle death and sickness are worse.

If you or I step in Vomit, or fecal matter, generally not a big deal, we have shoes, socks, as barriers, and because of that don't have a lot of exposed cuts. if we touched something like that most people would wash they're hands.

That's not always the case in Africa.
 
Looks like both Dallas nurses are Ebola free which is something we all wanted and needed to hear. Sounds like early detection might be key in beating the virus.
 
With the understanding that Ebola is a physical condition, as it relates to mental conditions, one can be institutionalized if one is found to be an endangerment to themselves, and more importantly, to others. By some sort of extension, I would hope the same would apply to physical disease endangerment as well.

My concern with our approach to Ebola is that it appears certain assumptions are being made based on our current knowledge of the disease. From what I can gleam, there is still a lot to be confirmed regrading its transmission and treatment protocols. We should not be making decisions based on the perception that the chances are low. They may, indeed, be low, but low still denotes a possibility-a possibility that must be recognized regarding not only how we treat but who we treat as well. For all we know, the virus could be mutating. Even without such circumstances as Ebola, infection control under normal circumstance, is one of the most difficult concerns for a hospital to address.
We know quite a lot about Ebola, that's the reason why there are treatments already, and why Vaccines trials are beginning, and should be ready next year.

And Ebola is mutating, any and everything that reproduces mutates.

The vast majority of mutations are useless, and non beneficial.

Heck Transmission to Humans is technically a bad mutation. If you want to live, you don't kill your host. That's why Ebola is still around it lives in animals, the animals live with it. (Edit, human transmission isn't necessarily a mutation)

But, it would require a drastic change in order to cause ebola to spread more easily, extremely unprobable.

Ebola survives just fine the way it spreads now, because it's perfectly spread in its hosts through fecal matter and blood, because animals roll around in their own excrement and eat their dead.
 
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Bringing this back to the original quarantine issue...ebola is transmitted in Africa in different ways and at different level than here. More people are carriers and potential transmitters of the disease than just a patient at a clinic. Therefore there is a greater than normal risk of transmission to any US HC workers in Africa. IMO this heightens the justification for quarantine upon reentry to the US.
 
Bringing this back to the original quarantine issue...ebola is transmitted in Africa in different ways and at different level than here. More people are carriers and potential transmitters of the disease than just a patient at a clinic. Therefore there is a greater than normal risk of transmission to any US HC workers in Africa. IMO this heightens the justification for quarantine upon reentry to the US.

It is along this line where I find Hickox to to be grandstanding and irresponsible. There is a strong possibility that the unfortunate incidence of healthcare workers transmitting the disease in Africa has occurred. I'm sure that workers there receive continual counseling or advice to guard against this. Yet when assuming this same possibility here, she not only threatens lawsuit in NJ but she openly states that she will disregard any "voluntary" quarantine measures in Maine and promises to move about freely.

Sure, the chances of her being infected and therefore contagious are extremely remote. But I take all of this as a signal beyond merely her. More stringent measures have not yet been implemented here due to the assumed responsibility of the individual. Assumed, being the key word.

In Duncan's case, we have evidence of an infected individual lying so as to gain access to America. And in Dr Spencer's case, there are reports now that he lied about his travels. Now Hickox shows aother negative side to being human, defiance and arrogance. Otherwise responsible and caring individuals, displaying questionable behavior.

The disease by itself is virtually no threat to us here. But like most things, it is actually people and their flaws, who present the greatest risk.

From what I've seen, the CDC and government has been speaking to the facts of spread as they know them. But that they've been seemingly surprised by these incidents of deception and defiance, is ridiculous to me. In order to speak about such a subject wrt public safety, you must acknowledge any and all variables. Tops in my mind is the negative side to human nature. Their surprise, ever changing procedures, blaming of nurses not following protocol, steals my coincidence in them. I truly view their handling of this as sophomoric, reactionary and I fear, political.

In short, people are the greatest threat. Some are covering their tracks, some speak with an agenda. There should be no surprise there.
 
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Bringing this back to the original quarantine issue...ebola is transmitted in Africa in different ways and at different level than here. More people are carriers and potential transmitters of the disease than just a patient at a clinic. Therefore there is a greater than normal risk of transmission to any US HC workers in Africa. IMO this heightens the justification for quarantine upon reentry to the US.
Transmission human to human is the same. Expose rates are higher, transmission is the same.

You can get it from uncooked animal meat, that's the only way transmission is different. As far as humans are concerned.
 
Hmm, writing that reminder me of EHD, which is a hemorrhagic disease that deviated the deer population (white tail deer) around here past few years.

Interesting, I think mule deer were the carriers, but white tails died. (Midges are the carriers)

I wonder if there's ever been a human case of EHD. (Nope)
 
Just skimming thru this thread, I see many fear-mongering posts.

It reminds me of the 1980's and the fear of HIV and AIDS. People pulling their kids out of school because one of the new students is from Africa? Come on people. Jenny McCarthy and her anti-vaccine crusade has caused more illnesses and deaths over the past 8 years than Ebola will.

A few months ago I talked to a friend of mine who is a statistician who works on drug trials. At that time there were no drug companies interested in an Ebola vaccine because WHO and the CDC estimated there would only be 40,000 Americans infected with Ebola in the USA. . .that is about the number of people who will die in the USA THIS YEAR from influenza.

Now since the public has been whipped into a frenzy by near truths, half truths, and lies, every drug company in the world has started working on a vaccine or treatment for Ebola. Not for public health and welfare, but for profit. Drug companies know that Americans are scared by Ebola, so they see $$$.

Wake up people.
 
the-sky-is-falling.jpg
 
The New York doc is Ebola-free and released, and there are no known active Ebola cases in the US right now.
 
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That was scary, didn't think we'd survive that.

A 12 person outbreak (I believe 12) scary.

1 person died.



On a serious note, there are still people under watch. So we're not in the clear yet.
 
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That was scary, didn't think we'd service that.

A 12 person outbreak (I believe 12) scary.

1 person died.



On a serious note, there are still people under watch. So we're not in the clear yet.

I share your sarcastic tone...I previously edited my original statement to be less inflammatory. Even with the sound science behind it, it's going to freak people out that a disease that is so potentially dire has "escaped" the shores of Africa. I get that to a degree even if it gets run with in illogical paths.
 
Thank god we made it boys.


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Thank god we made it boys.


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No kidding...with 500+ posts in here I thought we were goners
 
There's just been to many things wrong with this panic.

It's tragic what's going on in Africa, but the panic it cause here... Man.

It's stupid, there was a big scare over Ebola, how many kids in the US will go in vaccinated this year? How many won't get a flu shot? How many kids in the US will starve to death? Be run over, or beaten to death? How many will be born with side effects from their parents drug habits, alcohol abuse, or smoking?

All those things effect us every day, but we do little to stop them. Then something like Ebola happens, or swine flu and there's a panic.

I don't know if we've seen so much of the other stuff we've grown insensitive to it, or if it's all media. I don't know.

But it's misplaced, it's sad to say this but in the long run what will save more lives, getting people in Africa food and clean water or coming up with a Ebola vaccine? And which one does Facebook ask me to donate to?

I hate placing priority on death, but Ebola can be controlled simply by educating people, and it would be relatively inexpensive.


I dunno, six of one half a dozen to the other I guess.
 
No kidding...with 500+ posts in here I thought we were goners

We have a local guy here who is a nationally renowned infectious disease specialist and "retired" from his practice to become one of the head medical directors for Americas blood centers.

He did an impromptu press conference here and it was pretty hilarious.

I will try to post it here later.

The basic gist was calm down people.


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We have a local guy here who is a nationally renowned infectious disease specialist and "retired" from his practice to become one of the head medical directors for Americas blood centers.

He did an impromptu press conference here and it was pretty hilarious.

I will try to post it here later.

The basic gist was calm down people.


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Was it Aaron Rodgers saying...R-E-L-A-X?
 
Pretty much except with big words and a guy who looks like an ewok with his massive beard.


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So not Rodgers, but quite a few Packers fans? :D
 
I share your sarcastic tone...I previously edited my original statement to be less inflammatory. Even with the sound science behind it, it's going to freak people out that a disease that is so potentially dire has "escaped" the shores of Africa. I get that to a degree even if it gets run with in illogical paths.
Maybe people will begin to understand that living in a third world country sucks ... nah, probably not.

Things we take for granted here - that are not available there - really, really matter.
 
The American Way.





 
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