Hitting Short Game Shots Off Hardpan/Tight Lies?

Hacker Charlie

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Anybody have any tips or strategys for hitting off hard usually bare lies? I practice it in our back yard with about 50/50 success failure. However practicing off it doesn't seem to translate for me to softer lies.

So lets here your thoughts on these difficult lies for the short game?

PS. Somebody tell me to just go buy a 49* and/or 56* Niblick and all my problems will be solved :laughing:
 
I'm no teacher, but I did play a course with nothing but hard pan last week end. About half way through I went to moving the ball way back in the stance and picking the ball rather than middle like most mid iron shots. It wasn't ideal, but made a lot of improvement to what I had been doing. I also added one club for length.
 
I love my 56* niblick and it helps cover a lot of player errors that can be made in your short game... but it isnt a fix all. There is a confidence and a touch that I am still missing. Its worth a shot and I imagine it will help you- but its still the indian and not the arrow.
 
i hate to be the bearer of bad news but whether or not the ground is hard, soft, tight or fluffy shouldn't really make too much of a difference. the goal is to hit the ball first then take your divot. try not to focus on the condition of the surface but on striking ball first.
 
i hate to be the bearer of bad news but whether or not the ground is hard, soft, tight or fluffy shouldn't really make too much of a difference. the goal is to hit the ball first then take your divot. try not to focus on the condition of the surface but on striking ball first.

^^^ this is exactly what i was thinking...
ive recently played a few crappy courses where even in the middle of the fw its like cement... if you can get all ball first without topping it... youre usually in a pretty decent spot
 
but its still the indian and not the arrow.

How dare you...It always has to be the arrow. If its not, what in the world can I possibly blame. It certainly cant be me.
 
i hate to be the bearer of bad news but whether or not the ground is hard, soft, tight or fluffy shouldn't really make too much of a difference. the goal is to hit the ball first then take your divot. try not to focus on the condition of the surface but on striking ball first.

I seem to get a lower trajectory on my chips and short pitches from it. Also maybe its all in my head, but my low bounce wedges definitley work better than my higher bounce wedges in that situatuion for me. I don't get as much of the "click" that I do from a softer, more fluffy lie, more of a thud.

And by 50/50 success rate, thats hitting my target, I'd expect on the course to have a much better rate since I'd be hitting more to an area, or location vs. trying to hit an object.

So if wedges don't matter so much, then whats the big deal about soles, bounce etc.?
 
i hate hardpan lies... i get a better result when i miss the fw and hit it in the first cut of rough
 
Anybody have any tips or strategys for hitting off hard usually bare lies? I practice it in our back yard with about 50/50 success failure. However practicing off it doesn't seem to translate for me to softer lies.

So lets here your thoughts on these difficult lies for the short game?

PS. Somebody tell me to just go buy a 49* and/or 56* Niblick and all my problems will be solved :laughing:

I play in high desert courses with tight lie fairways. I also struggled with the short game off these tight lies. I read about the niblicks and did some research on Cleveland's website. The 37* strong suit is for tight lies. I was so frustrated I thought I'd give it a try. Picked up a used 37* on ebay so there wasn't a big investment if I didn't like it. What a difference. It has totally changed my short game but I can also, if needed, hit it 125 yds. It has really helped my chipping. I now approach off the green lies with the confidence of getting up and down instead of " Oh, no, I've got to chip. Am I going hit it fat or skull it across the green."
I like the 37* so much I bought a 49* niblick to take the place of my 52* gap wedge. Most golfers on this site prefer the 42*/ 56* combo but I had already bought the 37* so I thought the 37*/ 49* combo would be good spacing. Plus I tend to hit a higher flight irons anyway. So I use the 37* for chipping and the 49* for pitching.
 
I may be in the minority, but I really don't mind playing hardpan type courses. I'm more of a sweeper/picker, rather than a driver/digger. I tend to sweep the ball and rarely take too much of a divot, so my divots are very shallow. But if the ground is quite hard I tend to play the ball back and focus more on keeping low and running. Kind of the links golf style thinking. Right or wrong, it seems to work for me.
 
water34 -- Your comments might be falling on deaf ears. It appears the OP doesn't think much of using clubs specifically designed to aid the short game. But I agree with you 100%

I play in high desert courses with tight lie fairways. I also struggled with the short game off these tight lies. I read about the niblicks and did some research on Cleveland's website. The 37* strong suit is for tight lies. I was so frustrated I thought I'd give it a try. Picked up a used 37* on ebay so there wasn't a big investment if I didn't like it. What a difference. It has totally changed my short game but I can also, if needed, hit it 125 yds. It has really helped my chipping. I now approach off the green lies with the confidence of getting up and down instead of " Oh, no, I've got to chip. Am I going hit it fat or skull it across the green."
I like the 37* so much I bought a 49* niblick to take the place of my 52* gap wedge. Most golfers on this site prefer the 42*/ 56* combo but I had already bought the 37* so I thought the 37*/ 49* combo would be good spacing. Plus I tend to hit a higher flight irons anyway. So I use the 37* for chipping and the 49* for pitching.
 
water34 -- Your comments might be falling on deaf ears. It appears the OP doesn't think much of using clubs specifically designed to aid the short game. But I agree with you 100%

What on earth are you talking about? I own more wedges than any other type club trying to find ones I like and can seem to use better than others, even own a chipper that I practice with from time to time! Don't know what I would have said to suggest that I don't like clubs that could aid in the short game. I'm all about practicing the short game! :D
 
My bad -- I thought in your first post you meant that recommending a club like the Niblick to you would be a waste of time, but I guess you actually meant you wanted more advice than just buying equipment. What helped me the most was practicing off my short-pile berber carpet while watching tv -- you can get in hours of practice without thinking about it. I always aim for a spot on the carpet in front of the ball, and try to be very aware of ball-first contact. But now that my wife has banned in-house chipping, my short game confidence has dwindled.
What on earth are you talking about? I own more wedges than any other type club trying to find ones I like and can seem to use better than others, even own a chipper that I practice with from time to time! Don't know what I would have said to suggest that I don't like clubs that could aid in the short game. I'm all about practicing the short game! :D
 
Well, first of all, you have to practice from hardpan just like any other lie.

But that notwithstanding, the first thing I do is to forgo any "bouncy" wedges and move up to a PW (if it has minimal bounce) or better still, a 9-iron or an 8-iron. These clubs usually have a relatively flat sole and insignificant bounce and together that increases the odds for solid contact. I play these shots from slightly farther back in my stance and I allow for a lower trajectory and a bit more run.

While it's certainly true that "ball first" is the way to go, to do that with a wedge - especially a wedge with a radiused sole and more than 5 or 6 degrees of bounce, is asking a lot and requires a perfect setup and perfect contact. By going to a flatter-soled club and eliminating the bounce, you're presenting a much larger striking area to the ball which will increase the odds of making solid contact (or solid enough) to get the ball from where it is to where you'd like it to be.


-JP
 
I almost bought a cheap "Tour Grind" wedge today. It had a very thin sole, and almost no or negative looking bounce (if there is such a thing). I may go back and get one next week!
 
i think you're on the right path charlie. find something that works for you that has little to no bounce, especially if you play a lot on hard pan.

good luck!
 
I almost bought a cheap "Tour Grind" wedge today. It had a very thin sole, and almost no or negative looking bounce (if there is such a thing). I may go back and get one next week!

Out of curiosity, have you thought about getting a wedge fitting done and find one that matches with yoru swing type? It may fix the problem.
 
Well, first of all, you have to practice from hardpan just like any other lie.

But that notwithstanding, the first thing I do is to forgo any "bouncy" wedges and move up to a PW (if it has minimal bounce) or better still, a 9-iron or an 8-iron. These clubs usually have a relatively flat sole and insignificant bounce and together that increases the odds for solid contact. I play these shots from slightly farther back in my stance and I allow for a lower trajectory and a bit more run.

While it's certainly true that "ball first" is the way to go, to do that with a wedge - especially a wedge with a radiused sole and more than 5 or 6 degrees of bounce, is asking a lot and requires a perfect setup and perfect contact. By going to a flatter-soled club and eliminating the bounce, you're presenting a much larger striking area to the ball which will increase the odds of making solid contact (or solid enough) to get the ball from where it is to where you'd like it to be.


-JP

I was going to correct TC's comments earlier about the difference ground makes vs. club selection, but you beat me to it. I play hardpan all the time, and you want to avoid any club with bounce on it, and accept the fact that the ball flight will be lower and run out more. This means no wedges other than my PW.
 
Out of curiosity, have you thought about getting a wedge fitting done and find one that matches with yoru swing type? It may fix the problem.

Honestly, no. How does a wedge fitting work? I always thought that I'm always too inconsistent due to experimenting too much for something like that?
 
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