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Official MLB Baseball Thread

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White Rhino said:
livan hernandez post season stats 7-3 3.97
andy pettite post season stats 18-9 3.90

not exactly what I would say are "right on par"
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Ummm, they were already posted up above. You forgot one great stat though.

Andy Pettite - Times caught lying and cheating - Once
Livan Hernandez - Times caught lying and cheating - Zero

hahahaha

Despite that I said earlier he had a chance at the hall, with this, he will never get in. If he does there are some serious voting problems based on how the voters are voting now.
 
Official MLB Baseball Thread

Pettite' nose- 1
Hernandez- 0


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thanks1974 said:
Pettite' nose- 1
Hernandez- 0
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True but Hernandez had more of the man girth going on. :D

How about this... who in MLB history has had a better pickoff move than Pettite?
 
Of course he has less man girth. You have to work out when taking the drugs man.

Posted from my BlackBerry using BerryBlab
 
JB said:
Ummm, they were already posted up above. You forgot one great stat though.

Andy Pettite - Times caught lying and cheating - Once
Livan Hernandez - Times caught lying and cheating - Zero

hahahaha

Despite that I said earlier he had a chance at the hall, with this, he will never get in. If he does there are some serious voting problems based on how the voters are voting now.
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JB, refresh my memory, when did Pettitte lie about taking HGH? I thought as soon as this came out Pettitte owned up to it and never disavowed taking them. As far as voting irregularities for the HOF there has always been a bias in the voting. Players that play in a a big market city always seem to get the nod when their stats are on the cusp of HOF entry. Small market players many times don't get the vote even when their stats surpass some already in the HOF. When a player no longer is eligible he is then at the mercy of an old timers committee. These guys are so bias it is not funny. They vote in old teammates or players they liked while shunning a player that was surly and unpopular. There are players in the Hall that should not be there and some who should be there yet are still ignored.

You are right about Pettitte though he is a borderline HOFer, yet playing most of his career with the Yankees and his excellent post season record may trump his use of HGH. The fact he came out and took his lumps from the media may soften the impact of the HGH test. Most of the voters probably would not vote for him if it were steroid use but for some reason HGH does not have the same onus as roids does to many.
 
Gus R said:
JB, refresh my memory, when did Pettitte lie about taking HGH? I thought as soon as this came out Pettitte owned up to it and never disavowed taking them. As far as voting irregularities for the HOF there has always been a bias in the voting. Players that play in a a big market city always seem to get the nod when their stats are on the cusp of HOF entry. Small market players many times don't get the vote even when their stats surpass some already in the HOF. When a player no longer is eligible he is then at the mercy of an old timers committee. These guys are so bias it is not funny. They vote in old teammates or players they liked while shunning a player that was surly and unpopular. There are players in the Hall that should not be there and some who should be there yet are still ignored.

You are right about Pettitte though he is a borderline HOFer, yet playing most of his career with the Yankees and his excellent post season record may trump his use of HGH. The fact he came out and took his lumps from the media may soften the impact of the HGH test. Most of the voters probably would not vote for him if it were steroid use but for some reason HGH does not have the same onus as roids does to many.
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He took performance enhancing drugs that were being talked about for years and NEVER came forward until he was named personally. He knew he did it. Had a chance to speak out about it and did not. Omission is the same as lying as far as that is concerned. I mean lets be real, Bonds never got caught by MLB, is he lying? McGwire never really got caught, but came forward, was he being completely honest? THey were all lying to the fans that had questions and to the game of baseball.

I disagree as far as HGH is concerned. I think most fans lump them in together. If that were the case Arod and others would be okay. ARod was not caught by MLB, and took his lumps when it was found as well. It comes down to fans "liking" Pettite
 
JB said:
He took performance enhancing drugs that were being talked about for years and NEVER came forward until he was named personally. He knew he did it. Had a chance to speak out about it and did not. Omission is the same as lying as far as that is concerned. I mean lets be real, Bonds never got caught by MLB, is he lying? McGwire never really got caught, but came forward, was he being completely honest? THey were all lying to the fans that had questions and to the game of baseball.

I disagree as far as HGH is concerned. I think most fans lump them in together. If that were the case Arod and others would be okay. ARod was not caught by MLB, and took his lumps when it was found as well. It comes down to fans "liking" Pettite
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I think you put words in my mouth. I said the voters may not consider HGH the same as steroids not the fans. Was't Pettitte's name and Arod's name both leaked at different times off the original testing that was not supposed to be released to the media or public. Pettitte took the HGH when he was rehabbing and I believe it was prescribed my a doctor. Most who took steroids took them to gain muscle mass quickly. Looking at Andy I think we can ascertain he did not take steroids. Yes you are right about Andy he came out right away ARod whenn he came out he had a lot of very iffy stuff in his statement that is still in question. Plus NYer's do love Andy and at the time many thought ARod was a big choke in post season. Although he showed them that he could be clutch in the post season last year. I am not sure Pettitte would make the HOF even if he had been drug free. If he had pitched in Seattle I doubt his name would even be seriously considered for the Hall.
 
Gus R said:
I think you put words in my mouth. I said the voters may not consider HGH the same as steroids not the fans. Was't Pettitte's name and Arod's name both leaked at different times off the original testing that was not supposed to be released to the media or public. Pettitte took the HGH when he was rehabbing and I believe it was prescribed my a doctor. Most who took steroids took them to gain muscle mass quickly. Looking at Andy I think we can ascertain he did not take steroids. Yes you are right about Andy he came out right away ARod whenn he came out he had a lot of very iffy stuff in his statement that is still in question. Plus NYer's do love Andy and at the time many thought ARod was a big choke in post season. Although he showed them that he could be clutch in the post season last year. I am not sure Pettitte would make the HOF even if he had been drug free. If he had pitched in Seattle I doubt his name would even be seriously considered for the Hall.
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As far as PEDs go, there is VERY little difference between steroids and HGH. They have very similiar effects on the body, metabolism, and muscle mass. They are both anabolic agents desgined to force your body to "build up". I understand the "healing" argument with HGH but the same could be made for anabolic steroids as well. One of the biggest advantages of steroids is that it allows you to lift more weight faster because it helps the muscles repair and heal faster... which is exactly the same as HGH.
 
Gus R said:
I think you put words in my mouth. I said the voters may not consider HGH the same as steroids not the fans. Was't Pettitte's name and Arod's name both leaked at different times off the original testing that was not supposed to be released to the media or public. Pettitte took the HGH when he was rehabbing and I believe it was prescribed my a doctor. Most who took steroids took them to gain muscle mass quickly. Looking at Andy I think we can ascertain he did not take steroids. Yes you are right about Andy he came out right away ARod whenn he came out he had a lot of very iffy stuff in his statement that is still in question. Plus NYer's do love Andy and at the time many thought ARod was a big choke in post season. Although he showed them that he could be clutch in the post season last year. I am not sure Pettitte would make the HOF even if he had been drug free. If he had pitched in Seattle I doubt his name would even be seriously considered for the Hall.
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How did I put words in your mouth. I did not once say "you said" or anything like that. I simply said what I feel is the absolute truth about Pettite. The fact is, he did teh exact same thing as others that have been caught and he is given a pass because he is loved by the fans. There is no other way about it. I dont want to hear that he took it for rehab only. Because we all know that that is a crock too. If it came out that Tiger Woods took it after his knee injury, he would be crucified by the media, the fans, and everything else.

Both ARod and Pettite were caught. Both immediately came forward and admitted they did it. One is considered okay and one is not. There is ABSOLUTELY no reason for this other than one of them is a fan favorite and one is not. Im not saying that ARod is better or okay. I think they are both shady and both broke the rules.

Pettite knew it was breaking the rules. He said so in his news conference. He chose to do it anyway. To me, there is no different doing drugs for rehab than doing it for any other reason. The fact is that they are both designed to get you on the field and playing at a high level. The guy lied by omission and cheated the sport. Why am I supposed to believe that the only time he tried them was once way back when for rehab? Who says? Him?

HGH and Steroids are both anabolic agents used to create muscle mass. The difference is one can be tested for. Andy cheated and got caught. Simple as that.
 
How did Mariano do today? I missed it.
 
JB you missed my point entirely, I was stating Pettite is one of the best post season, big game pitchers in recent history You let your hatred of the Yankees skew your comments again and brought up this drug crap.
 
White Rhino said:
JB you missed my point entirely, I was stating Pettite is one of the best post season, big game pitchers in recent history You let your hatred of the Yankees skew your comments again and brought up this drug crap.
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No I did not, but thanks for believing that you know what I was thinking. I said that I believe Pettite is not as good as most believe and the stats back it up. An ERA in the post season of around 4, is not the legendary status that most make his numbers out to be. As for the "drug thing", the guy is a cheater. He got caught. There is no other way around it. I dont care if he played for the Yankees, or any other team. He cheated plain and simple.
 
White Rhino said:
JB you missed my point entirely, I was stating Pettite is one of the best post season, big game pitchers in recent history You let your hatred of the Yankees skew your comments again and brought up this drug crap.
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You always assume its my hatred of a team that causes a jaded opinion. Couldnt the same be said for your rose shaded glasses that you have on when speaking of the same players being discussed? Why is one different than the other.
 
JB said:
No I did not, but thanks for believing that you know what I was thinking. I said that I believe Pettite is not as good as most believe and the stats back it up. An ERA in the post season of around 4, is not the legendary status that most make his numbers out to be. As for the "drug thing", the guy is a cheater. He got caught. There is no other way around it. I dont care if he played for the Yankees, or any other team. He cheated plain and simple.
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Having 18 post season wins is not good? The ERA is lower that the league average of the time he plays. I'd say it is pretty good. Never said I was reading your mind my friend, I said I thought you missed my point.
 
White Rhino said:
Having 18 post season wins is not good? The ERA is lower that the league average of the time he plays. I'd say it is pretty good. Never said I was reading your mind my friend, I said I thought you missed my point.
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You need to read my posts. I never said it was not good. In fact I said on numerous occasions it was VERY good. BUt I dont believe he is one of hte best ever in teh post season. I also believe that where he played, played a larger role in the thoughts of his success.
 
Ok, you can call me a grammar nazi...but this needs to be said.

It's spelled Pettitte.

[this is to everyone, not just one person]

:D
 
Floppy said:
Ok, you can call me a grammar nazi...but this needs to be said.

It's spelled Pettitte.

[this is to everyone, not just one person]



:D
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He lost a T when he cheated. haha
 
JB said:
He lost a T when he cheated. haha
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Riiiiight...

If anything he would've lost an "o", but he has none in his name. :D
 
as a mere bystander and one who could care whether or not baseball existed anymore, i must say it's quite entertaining watching the yankees fans defend their team to no end. i'm sure that none of you yankees fans like barry bonds either, so what gives? arod and peTitte (one big fat t just for you floppy) admitted to being drug cheats, you shouldn't be a fan of theirs at all, and it says a lot that you continue to defend them. baseball's been tainted in so many ways, it's not even worth an ounce of my viewership. i gave up on the game when the players decided to strike.
 
tcalloway1 said:
as a mere bystander and one who could care whether or not baseball existed anymore, i must say it's quite entertaining watching the yankees fans defend their team to no end. i'm sure that none of you yankees fans like barry bonds either, so what gives? arod and peTitte (one big fat t just for you floppy) admitted to being drug cheats, you shouldn't be a fan of theirs at all, and it says a lot that you continue to defend them. baseball's been tainted in so many ways, it's not even worth an ounce of my viewership. i gave up on the game when the players decided to strike.
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Well said.
 
wow, i dangled some yankee bait and none of the die hards bit. i guess i made a good point.
 
tcalloway1 said:
wow, i dangled some yankee bait and none of the die hards bit. i guess i made a good point.
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I think what it comes down to is Fan is short for Fanatic. People will defend "their" team to the end and feel insulted if people dont agree. In this case they assume its Yankee hating. At the same time anytime a fan points out Yankee hating, it si really the exact same thing they are doing just a complete 180. Bias is bias no matter which way it goes. My points about Druggy P, had nothing to do with the Yankees.
 
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