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JB said:
So Floppy, if that is your argument, what is your argument for Andy? Or how about Clemens? Giambi? Some used when they were yankees! The fact that they are known cheaters and liars says it all for support. People bash others for supporting the same type of people in other sports or with other teams.

Floppy, you yourself have jumped on different athletes for their actions, yet when it is a favorite of yours, you give them a pass. Tiger, Yankees, Kobe, etc...Yet when it was Lawrence Taylor (despite not ahving the facts) you jumped all over him. Yet it appears there is a whole lot more to that story and perhaps many passed judgement without the facts.

Im not comparing any of these crimes or excusing any, but the facts are teh facts. These players cheated not just the fans, but the game that made them what they are. They cheated the legacy of the sport to do nothing more than get paid. These were crimes against baseball, but they were also CRIMES. Some of these drugs were/are illegal.

Fans always want it both ways. They want to crucify players that cheat until it is one of their own, and then they get a pass. How was what Manny did worse than what Pettitte did? They both took drugs to get better and stay on the field? How is one worse than the other? They are not! I have said it before, Pettitte is giving a pass by many because of where he plays and the fact that he is considered a nice guy. There is no other way around it.
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I don't have a "case" for Giambi, Pettitte, etc. They cheated. I'm not going to back them up.

Kobe is not my favorite. I'm not even a fan of the NBA.
I didn't "jump" on LT. RAPE is RAPE... significantly worse than PED use.
Which athletes did I jump on? Enlighten me.
 
Floppy said:
I don't have a "case" for Giambi, Pettitte, etc. They cheated. I'm not going to back them up.

Kobe is not my favorite. I'm not even a fan of the NBA.
I didn't "jump" on LT. RAPE is RAPE... significantly worse than PED use.
Which athletes did I jump on? Enlighten me.
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I just said I am not comparing his crimes to that of the players. What I said was you jumped on him for his actions, but get mad when others jump on these players for their actions. Take a look at the LT talk in the Tomlinson thread and perhaps you will see what you said.

We can also go back to last year and your talk about the Lakers and Kobe. Im not saying that you dont have a right to your opinion. Of course you do, just as others do here. But to get upset with people because they think its disgusting that an organization seems to have a pattern of paying players that cheat past or currently seems wrong. Why cant someone have a choice in hating the fact that someone lies, cheats, and steals to get on top?
 
JB said:
Why cant someone have a choice in hating the fact that someone lies, cheats, and steals to get on top?
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I realize this is the baseball thread, but JB, you brought Tiger up in this thread in reference to cheating, lying, etc., and how someone can be a fan of their's.

So I ask this - What did Tiger do that was against the rules to get on top? Obviously, I can understand the dislike for the PED and steroid users, as they obviously enhanced their bodies and thusly their ability to perform at higher level.

But to equate lying to actual cheating is reckless, IMO.

It's misguided hatred.

I will NEVER care for Bonds, McGwire, Pettite, ARod, etc etc. because they DID cheat. Did they lie as well? Yes, and it's not like I'm condoning that by any means, but they were lying about cheating. haha. That's quite a bit worse to me than Tiger putting a "false" image out there.
 
NikeGolf said:
I realize this is the baseball thread, but JB, you brought Tiger up in this thread in reference to cheating, lying, etc., and how someone can be a fan of their's.

So I ask this - What did Tiger do that was against the rules to get on top? Obviously, I can understand the dislike for the PED and steroid users, as they obviously enhanced their bodies and thusly their ability to perform at higher level.

But to equate lying to actual cheating is reckless, IMO.

It's misguided hatred.

I will NEVER care for Bonds, McGwire, Pettite, ARod, etc etc. because they DID cheat. Did they lie as well? Yes, and it's not like I'm condoning that by any means, but they were lying about cheating. haha. That's quite a bit worse to me than Tiger putting a "false" image out there.
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So what you're saying is: You can lie and cheat, you can cheat without lying, you can lie without cheating, and you can not lie and not cheat. Did I cover all the bases?
 
JB said:
I just said I am not comparing his crimes to that of the players. What I said was you jumped on him for his actions, but get mad when others jump on these players for their actions. Take a look at the LT talk in the Tomlinson thread and perhaps you will see what you said.

We can also go back to last year and your talk about the Lakers and Kobe. Im not saying that you dont have a right to your opinion. Of course you do, just as others do here. But to get upset with people because they think its disgusting that an organization seems to have a pattern of paying players that cheat past or currently seems wrong. Why cant someone have a choice in hating the fact that someone lies, cheats, and steals to get on top?
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I haven't gotten upset with anyone that thinks cheaters are wrong. I got upset with the fact that ANYTHING I say in this thread gets manipulated and thrown out of proportion, mostly just because I'm a fan of a team that no one likes.

And I'm not sure why I keep getting words put in my mouth either.
 
NikeGolf said:
I realize this is the baseball thread, but JB, you brought Tiger up in this thread in reference to cheating, lying, etc., and how someone can be a fan of their's.

So I ask this - What did Tiger do that was against the rules to get on top? Obviously, I can understand the dislike for the PED and steroid users, as they obviously enhanced their bodies and thusly their ability to perform at higher level.

But to equate lying to actual cheating is reckless, IMO.

It's misguided hatred.

I will NEVER care for Bonds, McGwire, Pettite, ARod, etc etc. because they DID cheat. Did they lie as well? Yes, and it's not like I'm condoning that by any means, but they were lying about cheating. haha. That's quite a bit worse to me than Tiger putting a "false" image out there.
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The Tiger police are here. This may be a MLB thread, but this is a golf forum. Again, if you do not like how it is run, there are other places you can visit. Did I ever once say Tiger Woods broke the rules? No, I said he is a liar and a cheater.

Floppy said:
I haven't gotten upset with anyone that thinks cheaters are wrong. I got upset with the fact that ANYTHING I say in this thread gets manipulated and thrown out of proportion, mostly just because I'm a fan of a team that no one likes.

And I'm not sure why I keep getting words put in my mouth either.
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Please use examples if you are going to accuse others of these actions. Perhaps every one of your posts was in regards to defending players or making excuses for players that others disagree with. Nobody is questioning you having your own opinion, but many disagree.
 
Floppy,
Didnt you just do that exact thing to me when you said "comparing rape to PED". Yet in the post directly above that, I said I am not comparing the two.
 
JB said:
Floppy,
Didnt you just do that exact thing to me when you said "comparing rape to PED". Yet in the post directly above that, I said I am not comparing the two.
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Never said you did compare the two. I compared the two.
 
81372173.jpg



The REAL single season homerun champ.
 
hankaaron715-783928.jpg



The REAL all time homerun king.
 
JB said:
The Tiger police are here. This may be a MLB thread, but this is a golf forum. Again, if you do not like how it is run, there are other places you can visit. Did I ever once say Tiger Woods broke the rules? No, I said he is a liar and a cheater.
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Why did you jump all over me about what kind of forum this is? I said what I said in reference to this thread in a respectful manner.

Wow.

Anyway, Tiger cheated on his wife, not at the game. Obviously that's BAD as well but there is a big difference there.

Yes, some will not like him for that. It's everyones choice.
 
hmmm yeah its Maris of course but I can see it?


Floppy said:
First pic isn't showing up...but I hope it's Maris. :D

EDIT:


Fixed?

EDIT2: Nope. Fail of a picture. lol
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Sunday_Hacker said:
hmmm yeah its Maris of course but I can see it?
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I couldn't either until I copied the location and went to the web page to see it and got the cookie.

But it was the white square with a red x until then.
 
JB said:
You should try keeping my thoughts in context. It makes more sense that way. I forgot, i better let this go. The poor Yankee fans might start complaining again. I just love how if someone has a different point of view on a player it must be because they dislike a team. It makes no sense. As for sounding like another forum member....I think you need to check again. Standing behind a guy when he lies and cheats seems a little similar does it not?

I have a problem with liars and dishonesty. That is it!!!! Apparently some only have that problem when it is not on "their team".
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I am sure not going to complain JB, I am not sure what you are referring to there.. I respect the fact you are entitled to your opinion of all subjects. And I never stated just because you dislike a player you must hate the team. You said you hated the team which is why in my opinion, you have a slanted view. We can always agree to disagree on subjects and it seems baseball or the Yankees in particular is a subject you and I should not get into cause we are on such different sides of the fence. All i had said concerning Pettite for this duscussion was that he was a off to a good year which he is and then after Price was compared to him I mentioned about Pettite's success in post season play and his career versus Price being so young and not really having much of a body of work to look over. I never said he was the greatest of all time nor do I think he is, I just said he was a quality pitcher in big games. You then went off on the tangent about his being a liar and a cheat and not HOF material. I never mentioned or cared about that for this discussion. For the record, if he did cheat and take performace enhancing drugs, then no he does not belong in the HOF.

Now to the points made about people who have cheated the game while playing and it has been proven or they admitted to it. I believer very much like you and TC where it is a disgrace ( whether Yankee or not) and I think any accomplishments achieved during their careers should not be wiped from record books ( IE Bonds 73home run season, Big Mac's 70 home run season) I think if proven about Clemens, he should return the CY young awards. I think people who cheat at the game are losers and it is very much wrong. These players should be not considered status into he hall of fame.

I really do not watch baseball much anymore to really care about it. Yes I am a fan of the Yankees and have been since I was little and will be tll I die and I reamain loyal to the team just like I do with my Giants, and Knicks and Rangers. It is something that in engrained in NYers that you remain loyal to your teams. I respect others who do that, people from Boston and Philly and Chicago especially who kep their loyalties through life. That is not to say there are not others in other parts of the country who do not do the same thing and if I missed you or your town I am sorry. Alot of times, especially out here in LA I see very fickly band wagon fans and that bothers me. Either you are a fan or not!

tcalloway1 said:
rhino, do you have you horn down and you're kicking up some dirt, ready to charge? i think it should be ok for me to express my opinion concerning players who failed drug tests. why is it that we can strip medals from olympians for drug cheating yet guys like pettitte and a-rod still get to play? you have to admit, there's something wrong with that. i understand being a loyal fan and that's fine, but all i was saying is that these guys broke the rules, they shouldn't even be playing professional sports. they had their chance and blew it. what if you failed a drug test at work? i dare say you'd lose your job. just trying to put things into perspective. take the black and white pinstripe blinders off for a second and try to understand someone elses perspective.
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See second paragraph above my friend.
 
that's what i'm talking about rhino! i love the fact that you, and so many others, are loyal to your team, but guys who cheat, and have been caught, get no respect from me.

well said buddy.
 
So I have a slanted view because of how I feel, but fans of the team do not have a slanted view? Makes little sense to me. If Pettitte was still on the Astros, I would still think the guy is a piece of garbage for lying and cheating. The Yankees just have nothing to do with it. If you want to root for them, frankly, i dont care. Just like I am sure you dont care that I am a Rays fan.

As for a tangent, this is the MLB thread. Last I checked drug abuse and cheating has been a pretty hot topic in teh game over the last 5 years. I choose to think that players who cheat should not be supported. If you choose to support them or anybody else, that is their choice.
 
tcalloway1 said:
that's what i'm talking about rhino! i love the fact that you, and so many others, are loyal to your team, but guys who cheat, and have been caught, get no respect from me.

well said buddy.
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Nor should they!!! They are jackasses who disrespect the game.
 
JB said:
So I have a slanted view because of how I feel, but fans of the team do not have a slanted view? Makes little sense to me. If Pettitte was still on the Astros, I would still think the guy is a piece of garbage for lying and cheating. The Yankees just have nothing to do with it. If you want to root for them, frankly, i dont care. Just like I am sure you dont care that I am a Rays fan.

As for a tangent, this is the MLB thread. Last I checked drug abuse and cheating has been a pretty hot topic in teh game over the last 5 years. I choose to think that players who cheat should not be supported. If you choose to support them or anybody else, that is their choice.
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JB we are saying the same thing... I agree with you. Imagine that you and a Yankee fan agree!!! Get past the Yankee thing for a moment. JUst bcause you do not care for them des not mean I wish to fight or argue with you on every topic of baseball. We can co-exist in this world, really we can!
 
I am officially bowing out of this thread and will be here for moderation only.
Between the "trick photography" accusations
The conspriacy theories
The "it is bad except when its my team"
I never realized that fans of certain teams were not very thick skinned and I just have had enough with it. Enjoy it all, and please do continue to banter away about MLB.

Its just not for me anymore.
 
Anyways...time for the Yankees to kick some Red Sox butt now! I love watching Phil Hughes pitch...
 
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4-0 Yankees already!
 
ouch not no more!
 
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