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Brand Talk - Wilson Staff

SuperStroke
What's most interesting to me is that they branded their boxed sets as "Ultra" rather than re-naming their better players offerings. It seems like that would be a better way to distance themselves from that history. There's no doubt that their clubs are really serious, and that the only thing keeping them from being more of a presence is the Walmart stigma. So why didn't they (or don't they) re-launch their brand with a new name?
 
Honest question about the boxed set business.
Does it bother people that boxed sets are sold of Adams, TaylorMade, Callaway and Nike?
Why is Wilson the only boxed set that makes them look cheap when the above all offer and sell them too?
 
Bucketsofjoy said:
What's most interesting to me is that they branded their boxed sets as "Ultra" rather than re-naming their better players offerings. It seems like that would be a better way to distance themselves from that history. There's no doubt that their clubs are really serious, and that the only thing keeping them from being more of a presence is the Walmart stigma. So why didn't they (or don't they) re-launch their brand with a new name?
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Why would you ditch an iconic brand name whose irons have won more majors than any other brand?
 
Bucketsofjoy said:
What's most interesting to me is that they branded their boxed sets as "Ultra" rather than re-naming their better players offerings. It seems like that would be a better way to distance themselves from that history. There's no doubt that their clubs are really serious, and that the only thing keeping them from being more of a presence is the Walmart stigma. So why didn't they (or don't they) re-launch their brand with a new name?
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If you are my age (almost 50) or older, Wilson Staff really means something - those were the clubs (along with Hogans and Macgregors) that you wanted in your bag. It is quite a heritage and that might be why?
 
I've had a Wilson Staff club in each spot of the bag at one time or another and they've always been high quality. The problem is most golfers who aren't the equipment geeks we are think Wilson and Wilson Staff are the same. I had a lot of questions from my usual group (who all play Taylormade or Titleist) why I had D 100 woods and Hybrids or FG Tour / CI11 / DI11 irons or the FG Tour wedges in my bag. And my answers were always the same. They are insanely cheap on the used market and perform just as good as anything.

I look forward to checking out the new stuff. I just wish my local DSG or Golf Galaxy actually carried them.
 
JB said:
Honest question about the boxed set business.
Does it bother people that boxed sets are sold of Adams, TaylorMade, Callaway and Nike?
Why is Wilson the only boxed set that makes them look cheap when the above all offer and sell them too?
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Probably because most of us go to Wal mart a lot and always walk through the golf section every single time and see the wilson box sets
 
BMiles said:
If you are my age (almost 50) or older, Wilson Staff really means something - those were the clubs (along with Hogans and Macgregors) that you wanted in your bag. It is quite a heritage and that might be why?
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Truth. And don't forget they are number 1 in tennis, have made every NFL football since 1941, have the official ball of the Final Four, the official ball of NCAA soccer, the most iconic baseball glove ever (A2000), etc. The Wilson brand means something.
 
PhillyV said:
Probably because most of us go to Wal mart a lot and always walk through the golf section every single time and see the wilson box sets
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Walk through Costco or other places and see the other boxed sets lined up for cheap. I think people are using that as an excuse.
Walmart sells Titleist, TaylorMade and Callaway. They sell Samsung TVs, does that make the brand less cool?
 
JB said:
I dont agree with either of these actually. People absolutely buy what the pros use. In fact in just about every category, "most used on tour" is also most purchased at the store.

However I dont think no tour pros using the Wilson driver is a huge deal. How many Adams drivers were out on tour the last few years? Mizuno? Cleveland? Heck, even Cobra? 5-6 total between all of those brands?

People choose based on perception, whether that be tour or anything else. Im truly interested in the idea however that someone would go the cant wait to try it route with Nike, Cobra, Cleveland, etc on THP and not even care about trying the Wilson. So similar in all honesty.
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IMO, Mizuno still does nothing on drivers from a sales perspective because of a lack of exposure. While Cleveland and Cobra only have a few, those few get a TON of attention/TV exposure with the likes of GMac, Keegan, Fowler, etc.

We are discussing the brand and where they are headed - I'm simply giving my perspective as an educated consumer with no inside industry knowledge.

The reason I can get excited to try something based on photos is that brands prior performance either through first hand experience or THP'er feedback makes me want to see how much better they've made something. I simply don't have that history with Wilson personally.
 
JB said:
Honest question about the boxed set business.
Does it bother people that boxed sets are sold of Adams, TaylorMade, Callaway and Nike?
Why is Wilson the only boxed set that makes them look cheap when the above all offer and sell them too?
Click to expand...

Just came back from Sam's Club. Wish I could have known this quote would be here. They had a display unit in-store for Callaway. I feel like I am missing something.Perhaps it is because the other companies mentioned above already have great distribution in golf and Wilson doesn't to their degree.Consumers only see them in discount stores.
 
#Cookie said:
IMO, Mizuno still does nothing on drivers from a sales perspective because of a lack of exposure. While Cleveland and Cobra only have a few, those few get a TON of attention/TV exposure with the likes of GMac, Keegan, Fowler, etc.

We are discussing the brand and where they are headed - I'm simply giving my perspective as an educated consumer with no inside industry knowledge.

The reason I can get excited to try something based on photos is that brands prior performance either through first hand experience or THP'er feedback makes me want to see how much better they've made something. I simply don't have that history with Wilson personally.
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But THPer feedback was incredible about the brand.
FWIW, none of those guys listed play Cleveland drivers.

I too am discussing the brand. You mentioned that nothing moved the needle (generalization) that made you want to try it. You said you base it on tour use or THPer feedback. Wilson has little Tour use (although more wins than Cobra even recently) and the THPer feedback was outstanding. Just trying to understand, but think I figured it out.

In my opinion, I think it all comes down to marketing. Nobody wants to say that, but comparing the thoughts of Cobra vs Wilson on THP, there is no question it plays a huge role, especially when also looking at overall sales.

Bridgestone is another one that has no distribution and virtually no Tour use in metal woods (changing slowly). Yet THPers gave rave reviews so people checked them out. Trying to see why that does not take shape with Wilson.
 
I liked the enthusiasm shown in the video. I like that Wilson has upped their game in terms of making quality equipment. However, I see that as a baseline expectation rather than something that is going to out of hand make me switch gear. Every OEM makes good stuff. So they need to take it the next level. We have seen this in other industries...Vizio w/ TV's, Hyundai with cars, etc. People more knowledgeable than me have expertise in how to break through consumer perceptions and start taking market share.

I will say that I've observed that the two most recent club leaders (I think) have basically followed very similar formulas, with one fine tuning the approach to manage inventory better than the other. That seems to be a proven approach, though maybe not every company can follow it due to costs, etc. It does seem somewhat restrictive to build your brand around irons when people buy drivers and wedges so frequently.

I like what Wilson is doing on social media and their engagement with THP. I hope they do well.
 
For what it's worth, the THPers at #PersonalDistance were given a questionnaire where we got to offer suggestions for helping Wilson Staff. Among the many questions was an exercise where they listed different things you can do (greater retail presence, sponsor several mid-tier players vs. sponsor a small number of upper tier players, have more fittings, promotions and various other things) with a sample budget of what each of those things would cost. It was an interesting exercise, and gave us a glimpse into the things that they have to think about.

Keep in mind that no matter what you think of their brand, they are running a profitable unit in a time when other golf companies are really struggling.
 
Knowing a Wilson makes boxed sets for wal-mart doesn't bother me in the slightest. It does, however, make me more cautious when shopping for used clubs, to know whether I'm getting their "premiere" line, or just their 'boxed set' line.

~Rock
 
JB said:
But THPer feedback was incredible about the brand.
FWIW, none of those guys listed play Cleveland drivers.

I too am discussing the brand. You mentioned that nothing moved the needle (generalization) that made you want to try it. You said you base it on tour use or THPer feedback. Wilson has little Tour use (although more wins than Cobra even recently) and the THPer feedback was outstanding. Just trying to understand, but think I figured it out.

In my opinion, I think it all comes down to marketing. Nobody wants to say that, but comparing the thoughts of Cobra vs Wilson on THP, there is no question it plays a huge role, especially when also looking at overall sales.

Bridgestone is another one that has no distribution and virtually no Tour use in metal woods (changing slowly). Yet THPers gave rave reviews so people checked them out. Trying to see why that does not take shape with Wilson.
Click to expand...

They did play Cleveland drivers with the Classic, assuming they likely moved to Srixon but they definitely brought exposure to Cleveland when the wood grain model hit the market a few years ago.

I acknowledged earlier in this thread that the Wilson clubs did receive great feedback but because of the fact that so few are gaming those clubs, those threads don't stay active and therefore in the forefront of my mind when pondering equipment. Generally speaking, same goes for the pondering thread - not much Wilson action in there.

I've hit the M3 driver and it was a straight rocket just loud as all get out...but performed really well.

I do however also agree to the marketing aspect. #seriously doesn't have me wanting to run out and seek their equipment to try.
 
Wilson introduced a new global Marketing manager, Anna Guelzim, last January. Perhaps it is just taking time to get her plan together.She was at Adidas prior to this stop. I imagine that the team sports and tennis get most of the money.
 
JB said:
In my opinion, I think it all comes down to marketing. Nobody wants to say that, but comparing the thoughts of Cobra vs Wilson on THP, there is no question it plays a huge role, especially when also looking at overall sales.
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Just my two cents...

I think Bridgestone came up with a brilliant idea in the industry - they have a method of providing a no charge customized service for the least expensive segment of their product line (i.e., consumers are likely to come back frequently to repeat the experience). That builds a bond with the company. Not sure if that counts as marketing or not...

Cobra...I don't get the impression they are necessarily killing it in terms of market share (though I don't literally know) on clubs. They certainly have created an identity which gives themselves a presence with a particular segment of consumers. And they've done a nice job of tying that in to ancillary products, such as scripting. So yes, marketing is more central here but I'm not sure how much it has lead to golf club sales.
 
JB said:
Honest question about the boxed set business.
Does it bother people that boxed sets are sold of Adams, TaylorMade, Callaway and Nike?
Why is Wilson the only boxed set that makes them look cheap when the above all offer and sell them too?
Click to expand...

I think it is because a lot of people go to Wal-Mart and if going through their sporting goods see the Wilson set, and right or wrong label them as cheap. Like I mentioned earlier I feel I made a mistake in not taking them serious when I was looking at irons. I really want to change that this year looking at the D200 iron set that you have talked very highly about.
 
#Cookie said:
They did play Cleveland drivers with the Classic, assuming they likely moved to Srixon but they definitely brought exposure to Cleveland when the wood grain model hit the market a few years ago.

I acknowledged earlier in this thread that the Wilson clubs did receive great feedback but because of the fact that so few are gaming those clubs, those threads don't stay active and therefore in the forefront of my mind when pondering equipment. Generally speaking, same goes for the pondering thread - not much Wilson action in there.

I've hit the M3 driver and it was a straight rocket just loud as all get out...but performed really well.

I do however also agree to the marketing aspect. #seriously doesn't have me wanting to run out and seek their equipment to try.
Click to expand...

Ill just say agree to disagree. Many brand threads die quickly yet some say they are excited to hit those. While Cobra gets a lot of love on THP, they are not selling a whole lot of equipment right now (I hope that changes for most brands). Yet the threads stayed active in part because THPers were engaged and hitting them during and prior to the Morgan Cup. The same could be said for Bridgestone equipment which has even less sales than Wilson in a huge way in club sales in the US.

Nike, Mizuno, Adams, Cleveland and the list goes on of brands that do not have a large tour presence, have threads that are not crazy active and all of them had posts that said people wanted to hit them due to THPer feedback. Wilson does not get that same line of thinking and I am genuinely curious, but think I found my answers in reading here. It goes along with a lot of my thoughts about gear and why I keep most of it inside. Perception is not always reality, but its a good baseline for what I do for a living.

Im not a betting man, but I would venture to say that the Wilson and Bridgestone threads stay pretty active this year on THP, the feedback on the clubs will be fairly top notch and yet people will still shy away from testing them out for a number of reasons.
 
JB said:
Ill just say agree to disagree. Many brand threads die quickly yet some say they are excited to hit those. While Cobra gets a lot of love on THP, they are not selling a whole lot of equipment right now (I hope that changes for most brands). Yet the threads stayed active in part because THPers were engaged and hitting them during and prior to the Morgan Cup. The same could be said for Bridgestone equipment which has even less sales than Wilson in a huge way in club sales in the US.

Nike, Mizuno, Adams, Cleveland and the list goes on of brands that do not have a large tour presence, have threads that are not crazy active and all of them had posts that said people wanted to hit them due to THPer feedback. Wilson does not get that same line of thinking and I am genuinely curious, but think I found my answers in reading here. It goes along with a lot of my thoughts about gear and why I keep most of it inside. Perception is not always reality, but its a good baseline for what I do for a living.

Im not a betting man, but I would venture to say that the Wilson and Bridgestone threads stay pretty active this year on THP, the feedback on the clubs will be fairly top notch and yet people will still shy away from testing them out for a number of reasons.
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I am genuinely curious what you believe these reasons to be?
 
JB said:
Ill just say agree to disagree. Many brand threads die quickly yet some say they are excited to hit those. While Cobra gets a lot of love on THP, they are not selling a whole lot of equipment right now (I hope that changes for most brands). Yet the threads stayed active in part because THPers were engaged and hitting them during and prior to the Morgan Cup. The same could be said for Bridgestone equipment which has even less sales than Wilson in a huge way in club sales in the US.

Nike, Mizuno, Adams, Cleveland and the list goes on of brands that do not have a large tour presence, have threads that are not crazy active and all of them had posts that said people wanted to hit them due to THPer feedback. Wilson does not get that same line of thinking and I am genuinely curious, but think I found my answers in reading here. It goes along with a lot of my thoughts about gear and why I keep most of it inside. Perception is not always reality, but its a good baseline for what I do for a living.

Im not a betting man, but I would venture to say that the Wilson and Bridgestone threads stay pretty active this year on THP, the feedback on the clubs will be fairly top notch and yet people will still shy away from testing them out for a number of reasons.
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Fair enough. I will also say that I very much look forward to those Wilson equipment threads and the feedback. When guys get those in their hands and can provide direct feedback against what they have been gaming, it really helps to understand what the equipment is capable of and hopefully leads to trying it out.

I have nothing against the brand at all and wouldn't hesitate to play it if I had a chance to try on course and it was better than whatever is in the bag at the time.
 
To me I honestly had no idea about anything besides what I saw on TV before I looked more in depth on my own. I think a lot of it has to do with ego and brand ho-ing, just like the reason why people wear $180 jeans. Sometimes they're the most comfy jeans around, other times its because people see what they are from the flame on the pocket and you get street cred or e-fame. I would always go into golf galaxy when I was younger and buy whatever new offering taylormade or titleist had out, without even giving other clubs a shot. I would find it interesting if there was a way to hit every club without seeing the logo and get an honest, unbiased feedback from the typical player. Now that I've gotten over the ego side of myself in my 20's, I'm open to playing whatever will allow me to shoot better scores and enjoy it more, that's all that really matters. I'm beyond words excited to be moving forward with the #THPLegacy in whatever WS has to offer that suits my game. Most reasonable people I know would be far more impressed with me saying I shot 77 than I have these $1,200 imported blades I break 90 with.
 
I think honestly that some people are unwilling to forgive Wilson for the Fat Shaft and some of the other stuff that didn't work out in the past. Unfair, but it creates a perception that can be tough to kill.
 
I'm pretty sure plenty of club companies have launched at least one bomb or another. As purely an example of recent history, remember the Callaway Razr Hawk driver? I never met a person who liked that driver, and I know I didn't like it. But now Callaway has a host of great drivers.

~Rock
 
McRock said:
I'm pretty sure plenty of club companies have launched at least one bomb or another. As purely an example of recent history, remember the Callaway Razr Hawk driver? I never met a person who liked that driver, and I know I didn't like it. But now Callaway has a host of great drivers.

~Rock
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I agree. But I've seen some discussion on other forums about some of their crap gear very recently, and it just seems like some folks don't want to move past it.

Want to make it clear that I love me some Wilson, and I'm hoping for them to move way up the standings in the gear race.
 
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