The 2014-15 College Basketball Season

[CAA_Beat]

Nothing like a log jam at the top, love the mid majors. Dayton beat VCU today and there is a 3 way tie at first between Dayton, Davidson and Rhode Island. VCU is only a game back, so next heading into the conference tournament is going to be a blast.

I would love to go to the A10 tourney some year. But the timing is usually bad for me. It's shaping up to be a great one this year.

I had a chance to cover UD for a brief stint way back in the day. So I've always still followed them and Wright State from afar.

 

[amsmith61]

Yes sir. I love me some Bruiser. He makes any post gamer fun.

He is a character. Thought he got a rough deal at UMass, but glad to see he is doing well at Drexel.

 

[TLeishman34]

Not much. I did a couple years ago when Elena Della Donne was in the league. She was so fun to watch.

But 46 points at any level is crazy good.

I normally don't watch women's either, but like you I did when she played. Was very good

 

[amsmith61]

I would love to go to the A10 tourney some year. But the timing is usually bad for me. It's shaping up to be a great one this year.

I had a chance to cover UD for a brief stint way back in the day. So I've always still followed them and Wright State from afar.

It is a fun tournament and always seems to bring some surprises every year.

Davidson has been a great addition to the A-10. I think George Mason is a great addition as well, but it has been a tough transition for them into the conference.

 

[CAA_Beat]

It is a fun tournament and always seems to bring some surprises every year.

Davidson has been a great addition to the A-10. I think George Mason is a great addition as well, but it has been a tough transition for them into the conference.

Yeah both are solid additions. I kinda think GMU got in over its head. But time. Will tell Elon went from being a perennial top team in the Southern Conference to finishing near the bottom of the CAA this year. Same with College of Charleston last year and this year.

It will be interesting to see how Mason does in the next year or two. They had a nice road win tonight.

 

[amsmith61]

Yeah both are solid additions. I kinda think GMU got in over its head. But time. Will tell Elon went from being a perennial top team in the Southern Conference to finishing near the bottom of the CAA this year. Same with College of Charleston last year and this year.

It will be interesting to see how Mason does in the next year or two. They had a nice road win tonight.

I agree with you on GMU - definitely think they underestimated the step up to the A-10.

I didn't realize that Elon switched conferences and it interesting to watch schools that were a big fish in a small pond transition to being the small fish. Some do really well - like Butler. But some definitely struggle.

 

[CAA_Beat]

I agree with you on GMU - definitely think they underestimated the step up to the A-10.

I didn't realize that Elon switched conferences and it interesting to watch schools that were a big fish in a small pond transition to being the small fish. Some do really well - like Butler. But some definitely struggle.

Yeah with the defections of Davidson, College of Charleston and Elon, the SoCon has really taken a hit. Much like the CAA did the past two years with GMU, VCU, Old Dominion and to a much lesser extent Georgia State.

James Madison wants to leave (for football reasons) but can't find anyone to take them.

 

[Wilson Staffer]

Hats off to BYU for beating my Zags last night. At least the WCC will get 2 teams in now. I don't see St Marys getting in after losing to Santa Clara yesterday. Better to lose now though then in 2 weeks when it counts. Selection Sunday in 2 weeks and a 2 seed in Portland is as good as a 1 seed in Seattle.

 

[bobgeorge]

I don't think Kentucky is killing college basketball - I think the NBA is. Allowing kids to go to the NBA after 1 year is creating a culture that coaches like Calipari, Coach K, Roy Williams have had to adapt to.

Add in the development leagues and the NBA is slowly creating a minor league that excludes the college level.

I don't think making freshmen ineligible is the answer. I heard it somewhere and completely agree - go pro after you graduate from high school or go to college. But when you commit to college, you are there for 3 years.

As long as players can jump after 1 year, the Kentucky, Duke, Kansas and other programs are going to recruit accordingly.

And although you can be very successful recruiting "one and dones"...as far as I can remember the only teams really led by freshman that won titles were Syracuse with Carmelo Anthony and Kentucky with Anthony Davis.

 

[Wilson Staffer]

And although you can be very successful recruiting "one and dones"...as far as I can remember the only teams really led by freshman that won titles were Syracuse with Carmelo Anthony and Kentucky with Anthony Davis.

The one and done rule actually helps mid major programs like Gonzaga and Wichita State IMO. It adds parity to college ball and keeps it at a level playing field.

 

[CAA_Beat]

The one and done rule actually helps mid major programs like Gonzaga and Wichita State IMO. It adds parity to college ball and keeps it at a level playing field.

How does it add parity?

 

[CAA_Beat]

Hats off to BYU for beating my Zags last night. At least the WCC will get 2 teams in now. I don't see St Marys getting in after losing to Santa Clara yesterday. Better to lose now though then in 2 weeks when it counts. Selection Sunday in 2 weeks and a 2 seed in Portland is as good as a 1 seed in Seattle.

The win definitely helps BYU, but it is only it's first top 50 win of the year. Their strong non-conference schedule will help, but most likely they will need to at least make the finals of the WCC to be a lock.

I agree St. Mary's only shot now is winning the WCC.

 

[Wilson Staffer]

How does it add parity?

4 year seniors vs possible one and done talent makes for some good, close basketball games. Imagine a 3 year rule it would make all the mid majors irrelevant. As much as I like the idea of going straight to the NBA out of high school, this rule since it's inception has boosted college ball.

 

[amsmith61]

The win definitely helps BYU, but it is only it's first top 50 win of the year. Their strong non-conference schedule will help, but most likely they will need to at least make the finals of the WCC to be a lock.

I agree St. Mary's only shot now is winning the WCC.

I agree.. they need to make pretty good run in the WCC tournament to get in. Wins against UMass and Stanford should help, but a loss to Purdue hurts.

 

[CAA_Beat]

The 2014-15 College Basketball Season

4 year seniors vs possible one and done talent makes for some good, close basketball games. Imagine a 3 year rule it would make all the mid majors irrelevant. As much as I like the idea of going straight to the NBA out of high school, this rule since it's inception has boosted college ball.

Sorry. There's no way it has boosted college basketball.

Talent will almost always prevail over experience. Take Towson for example they had four senior starters including the conference player of the year last season. They won 25 games and were ranked on the Mid Major Top 25 most of the season. .

They played Kansas with a couple one and dones and trailed by 30 points at halftime and could have lost by 60 if KU really had really wanted it.

Mid Majors will still pull the occasional stunner they happens every year. But that has nothing to do with parity. It has to do with just plain ole "things happen".

 

[Wilson Staffer]

Sorry. There's no way it has boosted college basketball.

Talent will almost always prevail over experience. Take Towson for example they had four senior starters including the conference player of the year last season. They won 25 games and were ranked on the Mid Major Top 25 most of the season. .

They played Kansas with a couple one and dones and trailed by 30 points at halftime and could have lost by 60 if KU really had really wanted it.

Mid Majors will still pull the occasional stunner they happens every year. But that has nothing to do with parity. It has to do with just plain ole "things happen".

Then why is Gonzaga, Wichita State, VCU, SDSU, UNI among others ranked every year with a good bpi and rpi?? If that doesn't define parity I don't know what does. Also teams like Boise State and New Mexico making noise on occassion. A 3 year rule would basically clinch it for the blue bloods every year. Even with UK and how they're having a dominant year they still barely beat A&M and another school. Parity exists in college ball. But the Pac 12 sucks real bad.

 

[amsmith61]

Then why is Gonzaga, Wichita State, VCU, SDSU, UNI among others ranked every year with a good bpi and rpi?? If that doesn't define parity I don't know what does. Also teams like Boise State and New Mexico making noise on occassion. A 3 year rule would basically clinch it for the blue bloods every year. Even with UK and how they're having a dominant year they still barely beat A&M and another school. Parity exists in college ball. But the Pac 12 sucks real bad.

For starters those schools have made a commitment to their basketball program and keeping quality coaches at their schools. For the most part coaches are not using them merely as stepping stones to major programs.

Having a 3 year rule will not make the mid majors irrelevant. They have long been looking for the 4 year student athlete and have been creative in their recruiting. The talent pool for college players has grown and is now worldwide. I believe Gonzaga has recruited players from Australia, Bonaventure has recruited players from Toronto (see Andrew Nicholson) and the Carribean. The mid major programs you mentioned have all found their niche to recruit but have also established a name. If Gonzaga comes calling, a high school kid is going to listen. Shaka Smart stops by, you bet kids are listening.

If anything, I believe having a 3 year rule will keep rosters for major conferences stagnant instead of the revolving door some have become. Kentucky could lose 5 freshmen. Duke at least 2, possibly 3. That is more scholarships up for grabs.

 

[CAA_Beat]

The 2014-15 College Basketball Season

For starters those schools have made a commitment to their basketball program and keeping quality coaches at their schools. For the most part coaches are not using them merely as stepping stones to major programs.

Having a 3 year rule will not make the mid majors irrelevant. They have long been looking for the 4 year student athlete and have been creative in their recruiting. The talent pool for college players has grown and is now worldwide. I believe Gonzaga has recruited players from Australia, Bonaventure has recruited players from Toronto (see Andrew Nicholson) and the Carribean. The mid major programs you mentioned have all found their niche to recruit but have also established a name. If Gonzaga comes calling, a high school kid is going to listen. Shaka Smart stops by, you bet kids are listening.

If anything, I believe having a 3 year rule will keep rosters for major conferences stagnant instead of the revolving door some have become. Kentucky could lose 5 freshmen. Duke at least 2, possibly 3. That is more scholarships up for grabs.

I couldn't agree more with this, especially the last two paragraphs.

Gonzaga, VCU and Wichita State and add Butler have taken Final Four appearances and annual deep runs into the tourney and gotten on the radar of top recruits. Plus as you mentioned made the financial commitment to the program to not let to fall off.

As we discussed earlier in the thread George Mason hasn't done this. It made its run, didn't retain the coach and brought in a President that really doesn't give .02 about athletics and moved up a level and have suffered.

 

[amsmith61]

I couldn't agree more with this, especially the last two paragraphs.

Gonzaga, VCU and Wichita State and add Butler have taken Final Four appearances and annual deep runs into the tourney and gotten on the radar of top recruits. Plus as you mentioned made the financial commitment to the program to not let to fall off.

As we discussed earlier in the thread George Mason hasn't done this. It made its run, didn't retain the coach and brought in a President that really doesn't give .02 about athletics and moved up a level and have suffered.

I don't think it is a coincidence that Butler lost a phenomenal coach in Brad Stevens, is on its second coaching replacement (medical issue for the original replacement) and has remained competitive.

Look at a program like Dayton. It is a school that is committed to both their men's and women's basketball programs, and that commitment is why Archie Miller is not looking to leave. He could have easily jumped after their Sweet 16 run last year, but didn't.

 

[CAA_Beat]

Then why is Gonzaga, Wichita State, VCU, SDSU, UNI among others ranked every year with a good bpi and rpi?? If that doesn't define parity I don't know what does. Also teams like Boise State and New Mexico making noise on occassion. A 3 year rule would basically clinch it for the blue bloods every year. Even with UK and how they're having a dominant year they still barely beat A&M and another school. Parity exists in college ball. But the Pac 12 sucks real bad.

Just go take a look at all the non conference December games the past couple years. For every NJIT beating Michigan, you'll find five Kansas/Towson results.

I define parity as the NFL South this past year...or maybe that was more calamity than parity

 

[Wilson Staffer]

Just go take a look at all the non conference December games the past couple years. For every NJIT beating Michigan, you'll find five Kansas/Towson results.

I define parity as the NFL South this past year...or maybe that was more calamity than parity

The Zags play the toughest OOC in the nation usually on a yearly basis and this year won the preseason NIT in MSG beating the likes of St Johns, SMU, Georgia among others. They took Arizona to overtime in Tucson in a game in which they led the entire way. They have an rpi of 8 and are 9-2 against the top 50 rpi. A bpi of 3 and should get a 2 seed. If you're going to throw parity out the window then stop using the term "mid major".

 

[jhoefer99]

Gonzaga might be in a mid major conference but they're not a mid major program, haven't been for 10 years. Mid major would be somebody like unlv to me. Zags are the exception to the rule IMO

 

[amsmith61]

Gonzaga might be in a mid major conference but they're not a mid major program, haven't been for 10 years. Mid major would be somebody like unlv to me. Zags are the exception to the rule IMO

I agree.. Gonzaga's program has steadily become one of the best, not because of parity, but they are just a very good basketball program.

 

[amsmith61]

The Zags play the toughest OOC in the nation usually on a yearly basis and this year won the preseason NIT in MSG beating the likes of St Johns, SMU, Georgia among others. They took Arizona to overtime in Tucson in a game in which they led the entire way. They have an rpi of 8 and are 9-2 against the top 50 rpi. A bpi of 3 and should get a 2 seed. If you're going to throw parity out the window then stop using the term "mid major".

Like jhoefer99 stated, I think you are pointing to the exception of the rule with Gonzaga.

Since you are flashing their out of conference schedule, note that their overall strength of schedule for this year is ranked 65th and last year it was ranked 72nd. So for as strong as their out of conference schedule, it isn't enough to offset their conference schedule.

But I don't think anyone is disputing that Gonzaga is a great team/program at all. I do think they are going to do well this March and I really like what Mark Few has done there.

I do think there is a difference in major and mid major conferences. I think it is their ability to retool. There is a lot of basketball talent within all of conferences but when students leave whether turning pro or graduation - the major conferences seem to retool quicker. Duke lost Jabari Parker and Rodney Hood last year and replaced it with Jahlil Okafor, Tyus Jones and Justise Winslow. St. Joseph's lost Langston Galloway and Ronald Roberts (both are in the NBA) for guys you haven't heard of yet.

St. Joe's struggled early on this year evident by Gonzaga beating them pretty handily. But they have progressed as the year has gone on and will be much better next year. Last year they lost to UConn in the second round of the NCAA in a game they should have won. Barring a run at the A-10 tournament, they won't get there this year.

I am using those two teams as examples of the difference between major and mid majors. Both programs have talent - but Duke recovers a whole lot faster when they lose players. In my mind that separates the two.

 

[CAA_Beat]

Gonzaga might be in a mid major conference but they're not a mid major program, haven't been for 10 years. Mid major would be somebody like unlv to me. Zags are the exception to the rule IMO

Thank you. That's what I've been trying to say, but maybe not clear enough.