How forgiveness impacts progress

Status
Not open for further replies.
People can be wrong. People can be right. There is NEVER anything wrong with someone posting facts when people ask questions.
As I said, there are people that are always looking for negativity and others that just want to talk and learn about golf.

Nobody said anything like what was suggested. Everybody on THP, was looking to help robmypro, and while some messages are different than others, the goals are the same. Help someone coming back to the game, that wants to get better and enjoy it more.
 
I can tell when I hit my game improvement clubs pure and when I don't. I'm not sure I need an extra kick in the balls when I do the latter.
 
I want to know where those magic SGI clubs are that mask my imperfections. All those times shooting 100+ starting out could have been completely avoided apparently.

If you slice, you slice. No club is going to mask or fix that. that's not a club head miss, that's a swing miss in some way. But if you're not making center contact, no matter what clubs you're using will it fix it. Maybe SGI clubs will help maintain ball speeds across the face better, but it's not going to mask a swing flaw. Play what you want, but IMO forcing yourself to use "harder to hit" clubs won't make you better or give you a higher ceiling. simply IMO of course.
 
Nobody said anything like what was suggested. Everybody on THP, was looking to help robmypro, and while some messages are different than others, the goals are the same. Help someone coming back to the game, that wants to get better and enjoy it more.

That is always how I have taken the comments here, JB. I always appreciate you and others chiming in to help a fellow hacker. And, at the end of the day, it is always a personal decision. Nobody forces me to go one way or the other. Just honest opinions. Do with it as you please.
 
I want to know where those magic SGI clubs are that mask my imperfections. All those times shooting 100+ starting out could have been completely avoided apparently.

Nothing magical about the clubs I have, and they don't mask my imperfections. What they do, however, is provide little feedback on my minor misses. No matter where I hit the ball on the face of the club, it feels pretty solid. So when the ball goes short, or off line, I am just not sure why. With the clubs I had when I was younger, I got a very specific vibration in the shaft when i hit it off the heel, or toe. I am just not getting any of that with these Eye 2's. Here's a good example. We were playing around 5:30pm and the sun was going down. I hit a 7i about 160 yards from the green. I hit it, looked up into the sun, and had NO IDEA where it went. It was 10 feet from the pin. No idea where I hit it on the face. I have had similar shots that went way left or right, and lost distance. Fortunately my wife was spotting. They are extremely forgiving, but ballooning and muted.
 
I can tell when I hit my game improvement clubs pure and when I don't. I'm not sure I need an extra kick in the balls when I do the latter.

That's the thing. I can tell if I hit it flush more by the sound, but the feel the club gives me on mishits is just really muted. And I wonder how much that masks poor shots, poor technique, etc.
 
Definitely not looking for validation to play anything, but maybe you are right. A more modern set, combined with a bit more feedback might be a good move. Maybe add a few practice clubs in that are a bit more challenging?



I grew up hitting blades as well, and knew when i screwed up. Which was most of the time. It does force a certain level of concentration on you.



That's a really good point, blu. I played yesterday and for the most part I have a very high ball flight. For the most part it goes where I aim, which is not always where I intended. But when I hit it really badly I just can't tell where I hit the ball. I am talking about really bad shots.



Good idea. I will definitely add that to the practice routine. Thanks.



LOL



That's a really good point. Would the 6i be the best club to get to do this sort of practice? And what about my driver and FW? If you were going to go down this road, what clubs might you target for practice only?



I totally agree. I am wondering if the best move might be to replace the Eye 2's with a modern set, combined with a few clubs for practice only? This way on the range I can learn to be a lot more precise. I have an AP2 712 3i, but I can't even hit the Eye 2 3i well.
Why does it matter where on the face you're making contact?

I've hit the Eye2 irons. Never owned them. But they aren't super forgiving pillows. Are you taking divots, is the ball checking up on the green, there are all kinds of feedback you can get from an iron that doesn't have to make you arthritic
 
Nothing magical about the clubs I have, and they don't mask my imperfections. What they do, however, is provide little feedback on my minor misses. No matter where I hit the ball on the face of the club, it feels pretty solid. So when the ball goes short, or off line, I am just not sure why. With the clubs I had when I was younger, I got a very specific vibration in the shaft when i hit it off the heel, or toe. I am just not getting any of that with these Eye 2's. Here's a good example. We were playing around 5:30pm and the sun was going down. I hit a 7i about 160 yards from the green. I hit it, looked up into the sun, and had NO IDEA where it went. It was 10 feet from the pin. No idea where I hit it on the face. I have had similar shots that went way left or right, and lost distance. Fortunately my wife was spotting. They are extremely forgiving, but ballooning and muted.


Have you considered getting lessons, or getting someone to video your swing? I would think someone that knew what they were talking about could give you much better feedback than equipment. Just a thought. I know (usually) what my misses are by my ball flight, if I really jack something up and hit it thin or fat I can feel a definite difference. Off the heel or toe....that's a little different, I'll admit I can't always tell, but those for me, are less of a concern. I'm more worried about fixing the big issues.
 
Why does it matter where on the face you're making contact? I've hit the Eye2 irons. Never owned them. But they aren't super forgiving pillows. Are you taking divots, is the ball checking up on the green, there are all kinds of feedback you can get from an iron that doesn't have to make you arthritic

Most of the time I am taking divots. Not sure about the ball checking up on the green. I hit it. It goes high. I walk over to the green and if it was online it usually stays on the green, unless the wind screwed me. Not trying to put back spin on it, or anything. Again, year 2 player blu.
 
That's the thing. I can tell if I hit it flush more by the sound, but the feel the club gives me on mishits is just really muted. And I wonder how much that masks poor shots, poor technique, etc.

Mask poor technique? None. I can absolutely flush a shot in the center of the face of an iron but still put a bad swing on it and lose it one way or another. The club feedback at that point is irrelevant.

If you are looking for a reason to justify moving to blades or something like that, the fact that it sounds like you just want to should be reason enough. Play what you want, that should be the only reason to play anything. it's your money and your experience. Some people like to play blades just to do it. That's fantastic, because at the end of the day the only person you should be aiming to please is yourself. But GI irons aren't masking anything. Your results (ball flight/distance/trajectory) are plenty. You can still hit dead center of a blade with a poor swing and still get terrible results.

If you're looking to improve though, I seriously believe playing harder to hit irons won't help you. The only example in here of playing blades or more bladed irons of a "success story" come from someone saying they made the switch when they had already gotten down to a 5 HC. That's not exactly a success story for playing harder irons from the start IMO.
 
That's the thing. I can tell if I hit it flush more by the sound, but the feel the club gives me on mishits is just really muted. And I wonder how much that masks poor shots, poor technique, etc.

Unfortunately, I am more apt to not hit it flush and on the screws so when I do I have to look down to make sure I actually hit the damned ball because it is then when I don't feel it. :D
 
Have you considered getting lessons, or getting someone to video your swing? I would think someone that knew what they were talking about could give you much better feedback than equipment. Just a thought. I know (usually) what my misses are by my ball flight, if I really jack something up and hit it thin or fat I can feel a definite difference. Off the heel or toe....that's a little different, I'll admit I can't always tell, but those for me, are less of a concern. I'm more worried about fixing the big issues.

Definitely yes on the lessons. I had group lessons last year (it was okay), but this year I have had one. It helped a lot, and I will be doing more. I think one problem I have is my setup drifts a bit. That might be the next lesson topic.

Yes, thin shots I can tell. Ball flight is immediately noticeable. Fat shots are also easy to tell (grass and dirt all over lol). But the heel or toe shots are not recognizable to me most of the time. The perimeter weighting of these clubs just make any shot near the center good shots, feel-wise. Maybe this isn't the main concern, as you said. I think most of my mishits fall into the fat or thin category, probably more towards the fat side. That, and uneven lies. I am really bad with uneven lies.
 
Most of the time I am taking divots. Not sure about the ball checking up on the green. I hit it. It goes high. I walk over to the green and if it was online it usually stays on the green, unless the wind screwed me. Not trying to put back spin on it, or anything. Again, year 2 player blu.
All that I am getting at, there is a lot of feedback that comes from an iron shot that's not painful. At the same time, I'm playing devil's advocate here, you're a year 2 golfer hitting 300 yard drives and straight iron shots, why try and fix what isn't broken. Especially without taking lessons?
 
If you are looking for a reason to justify moving to blades or something like that, the fact that it sounds like you just want to should be reason enough. Play what you want, that should be the only reason to play anything. it's your money and your experience. Some people like to play blades just to do it. That's fantastic, because at the end of the day the only person you should be aiming to please is yourself. But GI irons aren't masking anything. Your results (ball flight/distance/trajectory) are plenty. You can still hit dead center of a blade with a poor swing and still get terrible results.

I am not. If I were I would have just bought them. My only real concern is getting better. This game is my passion. So I started thinking about how the clubs I play help or hinder me in my quest to play better. Honestly, my initial thought was "play something really unforgiving, and that will absolutely push you towards lessons", which in itself may have a huge benefit on my progression. Because I won't be able to hit the darn things until I do. But that's not to say that's the only way. I could also get newer clubs that are more forgiving, and take lessons.

I like the irons I play, but I also know I am playing mid 80's technology. No sugarcoating that one.

In any case, I think I have enough feedback to ponder. I am going to try and hit some irons this week/weekend, and see what I think. I am not going to bias anything. Just hit some different sets and see how it goes.

Thanks for the help guys!

Rob
 
I am not. If I were I would have just bought them. My only real concern is getting better. This game is my passion. So I started thinking about how the clubs I play help or hinder me in my quest to play better. Honestly, my initial thought was "play something really unforgiving, and that will absolutely push you towards lessons", which in itself may have a huge benefit on my progression. Because I won't be able to hit the darn things until I do. But that's not to say that's the only way. I could also get newer clubs that are more forgiving, and take lessons.

I like the irons I play, but I also know I am playing mid 80's technology. No sugarcoating that one.

In any case, I think I have enough feedback to ponder. I am going to try and hit some irons this week/weekend, and see what I think. I am not going to bias anything. Just hit some different sets and see how it goes.

Thanks for the help guys!

Rob

Good luck with the journey, Rob! I think trying out a bunch of different sets is a great idea. Worth a look for sure, even if it turns out you just want to stick with what you have.
 
All that I am getting at, there is a lot of feedback that comes from an iron shot that's not painful. At the same time, I'm playing devil's advocate here, you're a year 2 golfer hitting 300 yard drives and straight iron shots, why try and fix what isn't broken. Especially without taking lessons?

That is a valid point, and I get that blu. It could be that I just don't have the experience yet to recognize what I am seeing or feeling, and be able to do something with that information. If I hit a fat shot, for example, I really have no idea why? Is my alignment crap? Did I do something with my swing? No clue, but the next one is a crisp shot. Go figure.

In fairness I do live in Colorado, so those bombs are a bit less impressive. My Arccos data is showing typical 250 yard drives, with the occasional whoa nellie sprinkled in from time to time. That means I am probably in the 225 yard range at sea level. But my irons do feel pretty good for flat lies, although I can skull an iron with the best of them.

Thanks for your help, blu!
 
Good luck with the journey, Rob! I think trying out a bunch of different sets is a great idea. Worth a look for sure, even if it turns out you just want to stick with what you have.

Thanks man! We'll see what I think after hitting a few sets. BTW, I just noticed you are from Cleveland! I grew up there. Lived in Euclid before moving to California, and then eventually to Colorado. I don't miss the Cleveland weather. I do miss California weather, though.
 
That is a valid point, and I get that blu. It could be that I just don't have the experience yet to recognize what I am seeing or feeling, and be able to do something with that information. If I hit a fat shot, for example, I really have no idea why? Is my alignment crap? Did I do something with my swing? No clue, but the next one is a crisp shot. Go figure.

In fairness I do live in Colorado, so those bombs are a bit less impressive. My Arccos data is showing typical 250 yard drives, with the occasional whoa nellie sprinkled in from time to time. That means I am probably in the 225 yard range at sea level. But my irons do feel pretty good for flat lies, although I can skull an iron with the best of them.

Thanks for your help, blu!
Thanks for putting this thread out there. I am in the same boat as you right now and agree with everything you have said in regards to different types of irons. Some good things for me to think about.
 
That is a valid point, and I get that blu. It could be that I just don't have the experience yet to recognize what I am seeing or feeling, and be able to do something with that information. If I hit a fat shot, for example, I really have no idea why? Is my alignment crap? Did I do something with my swing? No clue, but the next one is a crisp shot. Go figure.

Critical thinking question here, how do you think less forgiving irons will help with that?

I am in no way trying to tell you not to buy new clubs, I LOVE new clubs and admittedly love to play irons that are out of my pay grade. But I like how they look and they make me feel really important. But I have no belief that they make me a better player because I have to be. New clubs are fun. If you want new clubs, go for it. But I don't want you to go out buying a set of clubs that will not accomplish what you are hoping they will.
 
A miss hit muscle back isn't a physically painful experience. The vibration is ugly as sin but the only time it could cause discomfort is if you are choking the heck out of the grip. I fully believe based on experience and having witnessed it myself there is a point when shifting to a less forgiving iron has benefit to continuing progress in getting better.
 
A miss hit muscle back isn't a physically painful experience. The vibration is ugly as sin but the only time it could cause discomfort is if you are choking the heck out of the grip. I fully believe based on experience and having witnessed it myself there is a point when shifting to a less forgiving iron has benefit to continuing progress in getting better.

That's cool dude, on the other side of the coin I have seen it be a detriment for people. Best part is? Both ways are a-ok.
 
A miss hit muscle back isn't a physically painful experience. The vibration is ugly as sin but the only time it could cause discomfort is if you are choking the heck out of the grip. I fully believe based on experience and having witnessed it myself there is a point when shifting to a less forgiving iron has benefit to continuing progress in getting better.

I think there is benefit to switching as well. Flighting the ball and working the ball is easier with blade-ier type irons. If the player has the ability to hit all of those shots while making consistent center face contact, then go for it. But GI or even cavity irons are still workable and flightable. With all of that said, if the goal is to use a muscleback to help fix a swing, I believe that is the wrong way to go.
 
That's cool dude, on the other side of the coin I have seen it be a detriment for people. Best part is? Both ways are a-ok.
That's been my contention all along.
 
I think forgiveness is progress. I learned to play on 1960s and then 1970s blades and woods. Hit sweet spot or ouch. But forgiving clubs still have a sweet spot -- missing it is simply less a penalty. I think a golfer who works at it will make progress toward a better swing and more consistent sweet spot impact either way. With today's forgiving clubs, however, the learning process has to be a lot more survivable.

This same argument happens with skis, for example. I used to ski everywhere (resorts, backcountry, spring ski mountaineering descents) on long, skinny skis and 3 pin telemark bindings with leather lace up boots. Would I have become a worse skier if I did the same things with robust and forgiving modern skis and sweet alpine touring bindings with stout AT boots? Heck no. In fact I might have become better faster because I would have started to do more and explore more technique and line options. The old school way just slowed down the process because the gear had limits. But that's what we had.
 
Take enough lessons and practice and I don't think it matters what irons you play unless you have no athletic ability at all. Is it nice having the forgiveness? Absolutely! Its also nice when you can hold your hands back rather than casting from the top like I use to do. No amount of technology is going to forgive that. The lessons I took in 2012 and 2013 were far more valuable than clubs I've bought.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top