Lob vs sand wedge

[Desmond]

I carry a 60* lob, and I practice with it. But admittedly, it can be tricky to finesse accurate distances. Repeatable swings give repeatable distances for all my other wedges, but the 60* is tough. I find myself using it less on course.

I am a wedge hound. Been studying grinds for 15 yrs.

Your lob wedge grind may not fit your swing - 60 should not be tough on a half or full swing.

Get fit, even though that's tough because of lack of knowledge by store fitters.

Have someone look at your swing - steep? shallow? Does the bounce and grind fit your swing? Try a different grind and see what happens. I've played a 58-60 wedge as my highest lofted club for 20 yrs. Right now, I'm 48, 53, 58. But the loft is not important. It's whether the grind fits and gets you the contact and spin you need.

 

[Bunker Snot]

21 cap and my wedges are 50, 54, 58. It's not that i play a lot of flop shots (but it's fun to go for the glory shot now and then) or manipulate the club open I think it's good to have the natural loft option of the clubs for different approach situations.

 

[Luchnia]

21 cap and my wedges are 50, 54, 58. It's not that i play a lot of flop shots (but it's fun to go for the glory shot now and then) or manipulate the club open I think it's good to have the natural loft option of the clubs for different approach situations.

You and I are close. I use 44, 48, 54, and 58. To me wedges are simply a matter of learning how and when to use each one. Also if you learn to use the wedges good enough to practice 1/4, 1/2, 3/4, and full shots you can play a much better game.

Courses with flat greens I can mostly use my 44 or 48 when I need a little roll. Most courses with high small greens and rough thick grass around the greens I will use my 54 unless the pin location and green layout warrants my 58 to get a high lofted less roll shot. Wedges are as much about strategy as any part of the game in my opinion.

Yesterday evening I took 5 balls and I practiced hitting my 54 closed and open to five different distances and locations on the green, which I found helps my wedge game big time.

 

[Sean]

I have two LW's, a 58º and a 62º. I added the 62º as I had room for one more club in my bag. I practice my short game a lot, and the 62º comes in handy for flop shots/short-sided shots. All it takes is some practice. The beauty of developing a good short game is you don't have to be young or athletic to do so.

 

[OITW]

High handicappers could get away with it if it’s the Cleveland CBX2 wedge packed with forgiveness

 

[Luchnia]

In my opinion it is not a matter of high HCP. I played with guys that have much higher caps than me and they were wedge kings, but struggled in other aspects of the game such as putting or irons. They could hit nice wedges up on the green, but simply could not finish well.

 

[Steve-O]

You and I are close. I use 44, 48, 54, and 58. To me wedges are simply a matter of learning how and when to use each one. Also if you learn to use the wedges good enough to practice 1/4, 1/2, 3/4, and full shots you can play a much better game.

Courses with flat greens I can mostly use my 44 or 48 when I need a little roll. Most courses with high small greens and rough thick grass around the greens I will use my 54 unless the pin location and green layout warrants my 58 to get a high lofted less roll shot. Wedges are as much about strategy as any part of the game in my opinion.

Yesterday evening I took 5 balls and I practiced hitting my 54 closed and open to five different distances and locations on the green, which I found helps my wedge game big time.

I am close to this also, except my gap wedge is a 49 instead of a 48. The two regulation courses I play most are stereotypical of the types you mention. One is a 1963 design that's never been remodeled and it has small elevated greens with lots of rough near them, the other was completed in 2006 and by my standard has relatively giant flat greens. On the course with all the greenside rough, the Smart Sole 58 degree works great. The only reason I ever need the CBX lob for a high-lofted shot is where I need to go over an obstacle close to the green, the pin is close, and the turf where my golf ball lies is more regular fairway turf, or some other relatively tight lie. The Smart Sole isn't good for this. But this is rare for me, since I can often hit the giant greens on the newer courses, and when I don't the pin is usually pretty far, so my 54 is a better choice. If I'm in that rare situation where I need to lob the ball from a relatively tight lie and I don't have my 59 CBX lob wedge, I can usually make a 1/4 or 1/2 pitch shot with the 54 work at least satisfactorily. I actually get the most use out of my "traditional" lob wedge on the par 3 course I play . . . but I have room for it even in my smaller bag because I don't bring my driver or fairway for those rounds.

 

[Desmond]

Guys, it's not about loft, it's about whether a wedge grind/bounce fits you.

 

[Luchnia]

I am close to this also, except my gap wedge is a 49 instead of a 48. The two regulation courses I play most are stereotypical of the types you mention. One is a 1963 design that's never been remodeled and it has small elevated greens with lots of rough near them, the other was completed in 2006 and by my standard has relatively giant flat greens. On the course with all the greenside rough, the Smart Sole 58 degree works great. The only reason I ever need the CBX lob for a high-lofted shot is where I need to go over an obstacle close to the green, the pin is close, and the turf where my golf ball lies is more regular fairway turf, or some other relatively tight lie. The Smart Sole isn't good for this. But this is rare for me, since I can often hit the giant greens on the newer courses, and when I don't the pin is usually pretty far, so my 54 is a better choice. If I'm in that rare situation where I need to lob the ball from a relatively tight lie and I don't have my 59 CBX lob wedge, I can usually make a 1/4 or 1/2 pitch shot with the 54 work at least satisfactorily. I actually get the most use out of my "traditional" lob wedge on the par 3 course I play . . . but I have room for it even in my smaller bag because I don't bring my driver or fairway for those rounds.

It has so much to do with the course, doesn't it? Me and my buddy was playing a course that had more flatter styled greens that were large and I could get by with my GW 48 most of the time and only had to use the 54 a few times because they were mostly short bump and runs that were needed.

Like you if there is an obstacle between like shooting over a bunker and a close pin then the 58 comes into play. If I am confident I can make it with the 54 then that would be used. I don't have the greatest confidence with my 58, but it some cases I have to use it to get the height needed.

 

[Steve-O]

Guys, it's not about loft, it's about whether a wedge grind/bounce fits you.

I don't think we're disputing this, at least I'm not. I have considered at least a lob wedge where these factors can be taken into account and fitted to me. But I'm not sure the views regarding very high-lofted wedges being more difficult or not needed for some players and this point are mutually exclusive. Out of curiosity, would you recommend avoiding high-forgiveness offerings like the Smart Sole, CBX, CBX2, or the Callaway Sure Out because bounce and grind can't be customized? It seems like the idea is to simplify an offering with only bounces/grinds that are most likely to work for the type of swing less-skilled players tend to have. The Smart Sole is the extreme example I think, for the player who only knows one basic swing for most of the bag.

 

[TylerD]

I carried a 60* for the past few years with very little use. The occasional bunker shot or flop shot. I upgraded wedges this year and left the 60* out. Going to give a 50 and 54 setup a try for better gapping and see how that works for me.

 

[Desmond]

I don't think we're disputing this, at least I'm not. I have considered at least a lob wedge where these factors can be taken into account and fitted to me. But I'm not sure the views regarding very high-lofted wedges being more difficult or not needed for some players and this point are mutually exclusive. Out of curiosity, would you recommend avoiding high-forgiveness offerings like the Smart Sole, CBX, CBX2, or the Callaway Sure Out because bounce and grind can't be customized? It seems like the idea is to simplify an offering with only bounces/grinds that are most likely to work for the type of swing less-skilled players tend to have. The Smart Sole is the extreme example I think, for the player who only knows one basic swing for most of the bag.

Well, the bounce/grind don't need customization. For example. Titleist has several bounce options in most lofts that allow you an off the rack wedge that fits your swing. I've had several fittings and those can work.

On the cavity back wedges, once again, I assume Cleveland has 3 different grinds (or they once did) to fit the player's swing.

On the wide soles, like a Sure out, that's a high bounce specialty option - SureOut, for me, is a specialty wedge for the bunker. I probably would not use it elsewhere unless you could use that bounce through any mud. Sort of like a Chipper - it has limited use for the most part.

 

[Steve-O]

Well, the bounce/grind don't need customization. For example. Titleist has several bounce options in most lofts that allow you an off the rack wedge that fits your swing. I've had several fittings and those can work.

On the cavity back wedges, once again, I assume Cleveland has 3 different grinds (or they once did) to fit the player's swing.

On the wide soles, like a Sure out, that's a high bounce specialty option - SureOut, for me, is a specialty wedge for the bunker. I probably would not use it elsewhere unless you could use that bounce through any mud. Sort of like a Chipper - it has limited use for the most part.

The Cleveland CBX all came in the same grind. And each loft came in only one bounce, though the bounces varied within a small range, lower for gap and lob lofts and higher for sand lofts. The CBX2 does have different grinds, but each loft comes in the one they think is most appropriate for a high handicapper for that loft. V-grind for the gap range, S-grind for the sand range, and C-grind for the lob range. I think the difference between them again falls in a fairly narrow range - perhaps for consistency? I can tell you that the gap and sand CBX wedges are MUCH easier for me to hit solidly than anything I tried before, although I have never been fit for grind and bounce. Would love to try it at some point. When I bought them my third-party handicap was like a 33. Maybe I'm outgrowing them as a golfer.

 

[Desmond]

The Cleveland CBX all came in the same grind. And each loft came in only one bounce, though the bounces varied within a small range, lower for gap and lob lofts and higher for sand lofts. The CBX2 does have different grinds, but each loft comes in the one they think is most appropriate for a high handicapper for that loft. V-grind for the gap range, S-grind for the sand range, and C-grind for the lob range. I think the difference between them again falls in a fairly narrow range - perhaps for consistency? I can tell you that the gap and sand CBX wedges are MUCH easier for me to hit solidly than anything I tried before, although I have never been fit for grind and bounce. Would love to try it at some point. When I bought them my third-party handicap was like a 33. Maybe I'm outgrowing them as a golfer.

Then those wedges apparently fit you if you're not sticking it in the ground or thinning it, and you are getting appropriate spin. Wedges are very personal - I've used a SW with a wider sole but lower bounce - Ping Eye 2, and then a LW with more bounce but not as wide - Ping SS Grind

It's apparent, I think, that when it comes to some companies, they keep the choices simple for higher cappers. Maybe they want to keep the choices simple (I don't know) - but look at Ping, they have a CB wedge with 2-3 grind options.

 

[Alpha]

You assume that the high handicapper is sitting next to the green in 2. That’s not often the case. Many high cappers are high cappers because they get in trouble off the tee (penalties, trees, deep rough, tops, wrong fairway, etc.).

LOL, I understood the post also. It’s quite possible to have a poor long game but get up and down for 6.

 

[dpgator33]

I’m a 13 and carry 54 and 58. 58 I only use from a bunker, or if I have to go over something with very little green to work with... and hopefully the lie isn’t too tight.


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[Badger_Golfer]

A lot of widely held beliefs in golf are no longer true and this may be one of them. High lofted wedges are much more forgiving these days and much easier to use in a wide range of conditions. Let's not forget the multitude of high lofted, high handicapper "lob" wedges like the Sure Out that really do work. This brings me to point two, which is, a lob wedge is much more then just a lob wedge. I use mine from the sand, for chipping and making pitches. And for many the "lob" wedge is really their primary wedge, e.g. many players just carry a 52° and a 58°.

All that said, I think there are other factors that are more important in whether you should carry a 58°, a 60° or even higher.

1. The courses you play. 2. What conditions you play in. 3. Your skill with a higher lofted wedge or just as a wedge player in general. High handicapper or not.

I enjoy playing a 60° usually, but in winter with dormant Bermuda conditions that can be tight, wet, grabby and bouncy all at the same time, I switch to a 58° because the 60° becomes a liability and is just no fun. Some courses I play just don't require a high lofted wedge and I can just bag a 56°. A lot of players are obsessed with even number gaps or exact distance gaps with wedges and I think this is dead wrong. Any wedge is a short game tool and I never worry about what the carry gaps are past my gap wedge. Think quiver with your wedges and buy the tools you need.

It's no longer the era of Tom Watson, but I do have a collection of Ram Tom Watson Troon Grinds. They were some serious flop machines.

All the new tech in the world isnt going to change the fact of how small the effictive hitting area is. Id also argue that cavity back wedges are little more than marketing fluff. I can quote a well-known club designer who has said that cavity backs in wedges really doesnt do anything because the extreme loft kills the vasty majority of sidespin you might get.
Also, it may not be the era of Tom Watson but its also true that the last true innovations in golf clubs were over 100 years ago. A wedge that you buy off the rack today really has very little difference from the first wedges that Gene Sarazen designed in 1932. Really, the only true differences are in the choice of bounce options and in the grooves. Infact, I could show you my Spalding, "Dynamiter" sand wedge with pyratone shafts that was made in 1935, compare it to any Vokey and they look practically identical. ?‍

 

[Buster1]

I am a wedge hound. Been studying grinds for 15 yrs.

Your lob wedge grind may not fit your swing - 60 should not be tough on a half or full swing.

Get fit, even though that's tough because of lack of knowledge by store fitters.

Have someone look at your swing - steep? shallow? Does the bounce and grind fit your swing? Try a different grind and see what happens. I've played a 58-60 wedge as my highest lofted club for 20 yrs. Right now, I'm 48, 53, 58. But the loft is not important. It's whether the grind fits and gets you the contact and spin you need.

Thanks for that Desmond, I think you are right. My 3 other wedges are “medium” bounce (two dot), no grind, older 588 RTX Clevelands. I hit them pretty well. My 4th wedge is the 60* Cleveland with practically no bounce (one dot) for tight lies. Maybe I should look for a different bounce/grind. I think you are absolutely correct.

 

[Desmond]

Thanks for that Desmond, I think you are right. My 3 other wedges are “medium” bounce (two dot), no grind, older 588 RTX Clevelands. I hit them pretty well. My 4th wedge is the 60* Cleveland with practically no bounce (one dot) for tight lies. Maybe I should look for a different bounce/grind. I think you are absolutely correct.

Appreciate it. As you know, it's not about right, it's tough to know on an internet conversation, but it's good to assist. I think the tight lie/low bounce thing is overblown. Look at many pros - Spieth goes low bounce but he opens up the face slightly to get more bounce. Phil uses a higher bounce wedge and opens up but I believe with his technique, he comes in steeper than Jordan and needs the bounce so as not to dig.

As has been said by others here, bounce is a friend to most of us. I've used wedges, Edel, with a bounce of 18 degrees on the leading edge, but if you look at the grind, the bounce is quickly cut off and it has relief at heel, toe, and trailing edge, making the overall effective bounce much lower - it is a versatile wedge. I've used Titleist 12D grind and had someone grind the trailing edge so the bounce still exists in front but not in back, making it play well in tight and normal lies. I saw Jason Day and Tiger on youtube giving a bunker lesson and saying that almost all amateurs should have 12 degrees of bounce. Tiger: "Bounce is your friend."

Find your technique, find your wedge.

 

[Luchnia]

Then those wedges apparently fit you if you're not sticking it in the ground or thinning it, and you are getting appropriate spin.

Couldn't thinning it be more of a swing problem or a mis-hit depending on the golfer? Take for instance in my case I mostly hit my wedges well and learning them more and more each time out, but I do get the occasional ground chunk first or a thin shot. I consider those mis-hits and don't let them get into my brain. Your thoughts?

 

[Desmond]

Couldn't thinning it be more of a swing problem or a mis-hit depending on the golfer? Take for instance in my case I mostly hit my wedges well and learning them more and more each time out, but I do get the occasional ground chunk first or a thin shot. I consider those mis-hits and don't let them get into my brain. Your thoughts?

We all have mishits - but that's not the club's fault. When you put a good swing on a ball and you still get it stuck in the ground or you fat it - I don't blame the club at first, I look at my technique - did I come in too steep, do I have my hands too much in front of the clubhead, did I get my ball position right, is my weight on the front foot, is the club stuck behind me ... once I get that right and the club is still not working, I change the club to fit my comfortable and good technique or I change my technique. Personally, for most of us, I think at least 8-12 degrees of bounce with decent relief - Titleist M Grind, D Grind in the upper lofts, S grind in Gap or Sand Wedge, Callaway C, X Grind, should be tested out. Of course. we are all different, sometimes a wide sole with less bounce works - we're all different.

I think a lot of us suffer from poor technique - look at Brad Faxon, Stan Utley, Phil Mickelson on youtube, James Sieckman, etc. Utley and Phil are different. Faxon and Seickmann are more traditional with a few twists. I've had success with Phil's technique.

From what I see on the range, we all tend to use our arms too much, poor ball position, weight not on front leg - and not enough use of lower body on down swing, loss of connection of arms on body during swing... etc.

 

[Moniker]

I use my 58 degree wedge exclusively inside 70 yards, except from faraway bunkers, in which case I usually use a 46 degree. I find that makes my decision making less complicated. I can hit it basically from anywhere, and misses are not as severe as other clubs. For one, unless I blade it, it's very rare that I send one way way pass the hole out of bounds or in the water.

 

[Nerdy]

I think everyone is different. I actually find it easier to chip with the 60 and use it quite frequently.

 

[TheDoctor]

I have 50/54/58 in my bag and I will use all of them depending on the circumstances of the shot I want to play

Regardless of handicap, I think anyone can play a high lofted wedge if they practice enough with it to get the confidence. You might have to experiment with different bounce options depending on your swing and the type of ground conditions you usually play, but if you put the time in, you can play whatever you want
I used to have a 64 degree wedge in my bag that was fun to hit when you had to get the ball up quickly or stop quickly, but I then learnt how to manipulate lower lofted wedges to give me more options around the green, as the 64 was almost a one trick club

 

[-CJ-]

I roll with 52/56/60 but usually play with only with 2 of the three. I constantly swap the 60 and 56 out, I use the 52 for everything but the sand, and the 56 or 60 for bunkers. So my 56 and 60 were one trick pony's so why carry both?

I think if I was a full swing wedge player I would bag all 3.