Corona Virus/COVID19: Local Impact

[xThor]

What worries me about the economy and loss of jobs, is the loss of medical benefits. Working for an insurer, most are waiving any out of pocket costs associated with Covid19 treatment. But as the US is based largely on employer sponsored healthcare (Medicare/Medicaid excluded), what happens to those unemployed when/if they contract the virus and need treatment. While many are going through bankruptcies due to the economic shift, I worry that latter phases of infection spikes will medically bankrupt many, or cause them not to seek treatment out of fear of cost.

 

[Nate]

What worries me about the economy and loss of jobs, is the loss of medical benefits. Working for an insurer, most are waiving any out of pocket costs associated with Covid19 treatment. But as the US is based largely on employer sponsored healthcare (Medicare/Medicaid excluded), what happens to those unemployed when/if they contract the virus and need treatment. While many are going through bankruptcies due to the economic shift, I worry that latter phases of infection spikes will medically bankrupt many, or cause them not to seek treatment out of fear of cost.

Charity Care. People aren't going to be able to pay so charity care write offs I'm sure will rise for a good while.

 

[RayG]

What worries me about the economy and loss of jobs, is the loss of medical benefits. Working for an insurer, most are waiving any out of pocket costs associated with Covid19 treatment. But as the US is based largely on employer sponsored healthcare (Medicare/Medicaid excluded), what happens to those unemployed when/if they contract the virus and need treatment. While many are going through bankruptcies due to the economic shift, I worry that latter phases of infection spikes will medically bankrupt many, or cause them not to seek treatment out of fear of cost.

Just like anytime else. Those costs of treating those little or no insurance get passed onto those who have insurance. As an example, a few years ago when one of the flu vaccines wasn't the right guess, ER's were being visited with lots of people suffering from that version. Someone I know without insurance remarked that "Gee, I was only charged $50 bucks for treatment, why is everyone complaining about the high costs of care?" I nearly plotzed. "Well, the fact that you only were charged $50, means that if I had gone in with MY insurance, that visit would have been closer to $500 and I would have been on the hook for $125 out of my pocket. So, I'm subsidizing your visit, and those visits by all the OTHER people with no insurance". As now, Banks and other financial institutions might be 'suspending payments' for a few months, but they aren't going to write them off. They want the money owed to them eventually. With hospitals, they'll get the money, and charge the insurance companies more for those WITH insurance to cover the ones without.

 

[BigMac]

So it seems like breathing in someone else's gunk is the most likely way for this virus to transmit based on a lot of the evidence coming out. First this means if you're out in public you should wear a mask to protect others, but it probably also means transmission outdoors is probably much less likely than transmission indoors. That's the reason golf hasn't caused any transmission of the virus even though golf courses have been packed where they are open. My theory? Think about a fart. If we are inside together and I let a fart you are going to smell it which means you are breathing it in and it takes several seconds to fully dissipate. Now think about us being together outside. Often I could fart outside and you would never even know I had done anything which means you didn't breathe in enough of my fart to smell it. I have to think a similar principle applies here.

And to take that a step further - if somebody near you farts indoors, you'll still smell it even if you're wearing a mask. That means those airborne particles have made it to your nose, even with the mask on. If a fart can make it through, how is a mask going to magically filter out 'rona particles? It would be interesting to know the difference in particle size between the two. All I know about it is that I've read in several places that the size of COVID-19 viral particles is much smaller than what a mask is capable of filtering.

 

[DataDude]

And to take that a step further - if somebody near you farts indoors, you'll still smell it even if you're wearing a mask. That means those airborne particles have made it to your nose, even with the mask on. If a fart can make it through, how is a mask going to magically filter out 'rona particles? It would be interesting to know the difference in particle size between the two. All I know about it is that I've read in several places that the size of COVID-19 viral particles is much smaller than what a mask is capable of filtering.

I do not want my post to be used to justify not wearing a mask. I am not going around trying to find reasons to not obey the governments requests. I am trying to be a good member of my community. Please don't quote my posts to use to argue against mask wearing. Thank you.

 

[BigMac]

I do not want my post to be used to justify not wearing a mask. I am not going around trying to find reasons to not obey the governments requests. I am trying to be a good member of my community. Please don't quote my posts to use to argue against mask wearing. Thank you.

I didn't quote your post to argue anything. I quoted your post to make an observation based upon what you wrote. I'm not arguing for or against wearing masks, that's a personal choice regardless of their effectiveness or lack thereof.

 

[xThor]

Just like anytime else. Those costs of treating those little or no insurance get passed onto those who have insurance. As an example, a few years ago when one of the flu vaccines wasn't the right guess, ER's were being visited with lots of people suffering from that version. Someone I know without insurance remarked that "Gee, I was only charged $50 bucks for treatment, why is everyone complaining about the high costs of care?" I nearly plotzed. "Well, the fact that you only were charged $50, means that if I had gone in with MY insurance, that visit would have been closer to $500 and I would have been on the hook for $125 out of my pocket. So, I'm subsidizing your visit, and those visits by all the OTHER people with no insurance". As now, Banks and other financial institutions might be 'suspending payments' for a few months, but they aren't going to write them off. They want the money owed to them eventually. With hospitals, they'll get the money, and charge the insurance companies more for those WITH insurance to cover the ones without.

A lot of that depends on the type of insurance coverage (HMO, PPO, ASO, etc...) But that really speaks a lot into the lack of regulations around medical care. From region to region, even doctor to doctor, charges for the same treatment can vastly differ. As well as providers that can turn around and pass their costs above what insurance pays back down to you (balance billing, a process that Medicare does not allow).

 

[Sean]

You sure on that COVID19 mortality rate?

In a Stanford study, by researcher John Ioannidis, MD..."it is noticeable how all these estimates for infection fatality rate [of COVID-19] are markedly lower than the figures thrown about a couple of months ago, when it was widely asserted that COVID-19 was a whole magnitude worse than flu. Seasonal influenza is often quoted as having an IFR of 0.1 to 0.2 percent. The Stanford study suggests that COVID-19 might not, after all, be more deadly than flu — although, as Ioannidis notes, the profile is very different: seasonal flu has a higher IFR in developing countries, where vaccination is rare, while COVID-19 has a higher death rate in the developed world, thanks in part of more elderly populations."

Those 65 and over disproportionately represent those who die from COVID-19

“If larger scale studies further document that the infection is very common and infection fatality rate is modest across the general population, the finding of very low risk in the vast majority of the general population has major implications for strategic next steps in managing the COVID-19 pandemic."

 

[JDax]

https://amp.tennessean.com/amp/5235723002?__twitter_impression=true

Nashville enters Phase 2 on Monday...
That’s exciting.

As it relates of the political nature of the lockdown policy, when Red States are opening and Blue States are extending lockdowns, what correlation should you make?

It’s not a stretch to draw the conclusion that possibly election year politics are playing a role in policy decisions, especially in the lens that unemployment rate is a strong indicator of the electoral success of an incumbent President.

The only time an incumbent President has won an election with double digit unemployment was FDR in 1936. Next week there will be close to 40 million Americans unemployed. The foreclosures haven’t began yet, it’s going to get worse.

This isn’t a political statement, this is a fact.


How many of these Governors that continue to lockdown their States, are on the ballot in the Fall?


Personally, my position is influenced by the fact that I want the people that I have personally furloughed to have a job to come back to, if this economy doesn’t get going soon, they won’t be able to come back.

 

[JDax]

Most Mississippi casinos are reopening today (two are waiting until June 1st) with significant changes. Three people are allowed per table game, slot machines will be spaced 6 feet apart, and no poker rooms or VIP lounges are allowed to open.

Only 3 people at a Craps table, no thanks.

 

[BigMac]

Only 3 people at a Craps table, no thanks.

That's almost like playing football in an empty stadium, isn't it?

 

[JDax]

That's almost like playing football in an empty stadium, isn't it?

You won’t be able to sneak in the switch to the Don’t without being noticed.

That’s bad karma.

 

[JDax]

Most Mississippi casinos are reopening today (two are waiting until June 1st) with significant changes. Three people are allowed per table game, slot machines will be spaced 6 feet apart, and no poker rooms or VIP lounges are allowed to open.

The house might take a beating on Blackjack, a lot easier to track a 6 deck shoot with only 4 hands being played (Unless they allow the 3 players to play multiple hands). A lot less of players taking cards when they shouldn’t hit (taking the dealer’s bust card).

 

[Desmond]

And to take that a step further - if somebody near you farts indoors, you'll still smell it even if you're wearing a mask. That means those airborne particles have made it to your nose, even with the mask on. If a fart can make it through, how is a mask going to magically filter out 'rona particles? It would be interesting to know the difference in particle size between the two. All I know about it is that I've read in several places that the size of COVID-19 viral particles is much smaller than what a mask is capable of filtering.

And while we're farting around, wear glasses or sunglasses. Darn farts get in your eyes, too.

 

[JDax]

And to take that a step further - if somebody near you farts indoors, you'll still smell it even if you're wearing a mask. That means those airborne particles have made it to your nose, even with the mask on. If a fart can make it through, how is a mask going to magically filter out 'rona particles? It would be interesting to know the difference in particle size between the two. All I know about it is that I've read in several places that the size of COVID-19 viral particles is much smaller than what a mask is capable of filtering.

I’ve participated in several 3M masks fittings, and the standard surgical mask that you see many wearing won’t help as much as you would think.

 

[SHIFTY]

a few drive in theatres are re-opening up this weekend. Think Saskatoon had the last one in North America (could be wrong), but some are re-opening now.
Have some really great memories from drive-ins!
Good idea during this pandemic.

 

[xThor]

https://amp.tennessean.com/amp/5235723002?__twitter_impression=true

Nashville enters Phase 2 on Monday...
That’s exciting.

As it relates of the political nature of the lockdown policy, when Red States are opening and Blue States are extending lockdowns, what correlation should you make?

It’s not a stretch to draw the conclusion that possibly election year politics are playing a role in policy decisions, especially in the lens that unemployment rate is a strong indicator of the electoral success of an incumbent President.

The only time an incumbent President has won an election with double digit unemployment was FDR in 1936. Next week there will be close to 40 million Americans unemployed. The foreclosures haven’t began yet, it’s going to get worse.

This isn’t a political statement, this is a fact.


How many of these Governors that continue to lockdown their States, are on the ballot in the Fall?


Personally, my position is influenced by the fact that I want the people that I have personally furloughed to have a job to come back to, if this economy doesn’t get going soon, they won’t be able to come back.

Blue governor here, we started Phase 2 yesterday. Catch up Tennessee!

(We’re really a red state though, but prev governor rubbed reds and blues horribly).

I do love Tennessee though. My wife’s family has a cabin in Chattanooga, and we are headed down there tonight to really socially distance ourselves this holiday weekend.

 

[BigMac]

Yes it’s totally political, let’s force people back to work, even though nothing is safer than it was when the outbreak stated because might make my employment numbers looks better. And if people die, oh well..

So what would your preferable alternative solution be? Keep everything shut down and everybody locked indoors? For how long? And what criteria would you use to allow reopening and ending isolation?

 

[SHIFTY]

Yes it’s totally political, let’s force people back to work, even though nothing is safer than it was when the outbreak stated because might make my employment numbers looks better. And if people die, oh well..

Not sure about the states, but nobody can be forced back to work in Canada. We have 2 employees that were laid off that didn't come back because they didn't feel safe. They will continue to get gov't assistance. Nobody here will be punished for not going back to work.
Everyone else came back when called.

 

[JDax]

Blue governor here, we started Phase 2 yesterday. Catch up Tennessee!

(We’re really a red state though, but prev governor rubbed reds and blues horribly).

I do love Tennessee though. My wife’s family has a cabin in Chattanooga, and we are headed down there tonight to really socially distance ourselves this holiday weekend.

That’s right about KY’s Governor. Have fun in Chattanooga!!

 

[SHIFTY]

we entered phase 2 of re-opening. Finally can get a haircut. Was looking like I was doing 80's night everyday

 

[RealPretendPsychic]

Quit saying “shut everything down forever”, NOBODY says that. We can have a discussion when people quit using that stupid talking point

I wouldn’t mind if Iron City Brewing was shut down forever, or at least repurposed to brew a beer that doesn’t taste like it was poured from the gutter.

 

[BigMac]

Quit saying “shut everything down forever”, NOBODY says that. We can have a discussion when people quit using that stupid talking point

I never mentioned "forever". I asked four simple questions.

 

[Hoosiermess]

We're starting Phase 3 here in Indiana tomorrow. Ya'll are stuck in the past down south.

 

[Desmond]

So what would your preferable alternative solution be? Keep everything shut down and everybody locked indoors? For how long? And what criteria would you use to allow reopening and ending isolation?

I was reading an article today that health experts are not as anxious about the guidelines causing Covid issues if applied correctly.

They are more worried about the people who will think upon reopening -- "It's all gone", of no concern, or "It was a hoax" and will ignore social distancing, sanitizing, and wearing masks. And then we have another "outbreak" in hotspots.