Corona Virus/COVID19: Local Impact

[Desmond]

The same can be said for barber shops, nail salons, and restaurants, too.

But they have other ways to request funds - like drive-in services. They can use the parking lot for that and Churches are doing that. They can attempt to limit capacity and practice distancing and sanitization.

But some don't want to do that, I would bet. They don't make as much money.

And as to your comparison, salons, etc. don't have other choices, Churches do. Restaurants have curbside at least and to-go alcohol sales - which are big profits.

A Church has options - some of whom you mentioned do not.

 

[Smiter]

I just really cannot stand that statement which has been made many times in this thread. That statement is everything so much an "all about me" and selfishness.
The debate or counter to that could just as easily be......"No one has to die from covid just so you can go dine out on a Saturday evening or do whatever other leisurely activity you want"
lets face it.......thats what most the arguments from many folks is really about.

Only few are truly concerned with the idea of poverty and or small businesses failing and most all of them is because they themselves are in one or are close to someone in one. So many folks out there using these arguments as though some noble gesture when truth being they simply just want to go back to enjoying their life the way they use to.

There is imo more than enough money out there (already in existence without printing more) that can help everyone get through this without sending millions of more folks into poverty when this is done. Whether the actua decisions have been so correct or not I dint know but the fact that they made them we should be/beeen helping each other get through them.

Thankfully WWII didn't begin tomorrow because with the unwillingness of people to sacrifice we wouldn't win a freaking thing. We wouldn't manufacture a vest, a helmet, a gun, a plane wing , a tank, nothing because we;d all be so much "all about me" and unwilling to sacrifice and help that we should just simply surrender or wait for the enemy to come get us while we are out dining or on the Ferris wheel at the local beech amusement park.

Well, WW3 has already started with nary a shot fired. Americans will rise up and do what is needed. That’s what we do. If they call on my old fat ass to go do actual fighting to protect this nation and my children, I’ll do it.

I do want at least the rank of O-3 though. I don’t need a 22 year old telling what to do. Lol!

Stay safe my long posting brother. And as others have stated if you want to send me some of that money I’d be very appreciative

 

[Desmond]

I know of few churches that don't have an on-line giving option nowadays. Our parish is currently going through a phase reopening, yet we've been sending in our tithe to support it each week since this whole thing started.

We have drive-in options if you have a parking lot - most around Texas in the burbs and city have that parking lot.

 

[Desmond]

Well, WW3 has already started with nary a shot fired. Americans will rise up and do what is needed. That’s what we do. If they call on my old fat ass to go do actual fighting to protect this nation and my children, I’ll do it.

I do want at least the rank of O-3 though. I don’t need a 22 year old telling what to do. Lol!

Stay safe my long posting brother. And as others have stated if you want to send me some of that money I’d be very appreciative

Yep, WWIII has started - cyber wars are quiet but deadly.

 

[Smiter]

Based on your logic, if WWII broke out tomorrow we would be screwed because people like you would be cowering in the corner. No one is making anyone do anything. If you don't feel safe working at the restaurant, as a cashier, etc. Then don't do it. You will get $600 a week until July 31. I'm 42 years old, if I was "furloughed" bet your arse i would gladly wait tables to feed my family.
How old are you? What is your financial situation? Reason I ask is because you are completely clueless as to what the working class is dealing g with right now. Apparently you have plenty money or live off the government teet.

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk

Based on the length of his posts and mine, he must have millions in the bank.

I mean what are the odds that two of us that use lots of words are flat ass broke? Lol!

 

[TheDoctor]

This has been the most divisive thread I’ve seen here. There are three categories that I’ve seen...

1. Those scared to death. This is the end of the world.

2. Those that have a healthy respect for this and what it’s doing to our future. They take it seriously but realize that we can’t cower in a corner. At least forever.

3. Those that couldn’t give a crap about this. Some think it’s a hoax, WAY overblown, etc. they’ll realize it’s serious once they (unfortunately and this in general) lose someone that they know and-or care about it.

At any rate, this place is by far the most level headed place I’ve come upon on the Internet. So when I’m seeing divisive and corrosive posts on here, I feel that it’s because people are scared. I hate it as I feel that everyone on this website is my friend. I unfortunately misinterpreted a post yesterday, asked exactly what was meant, and moved on. If I didn’t apologize then here it is @JDax , I’m sorry.

I deal with the results of this everyday in my job. From panic buying to sick people being in close contact, it has me concerned. Not overtly scared, but concerned.

I just want it over. You seem like a reasonable fellow, don’t run away because a few people are asshats at times in their posts. Hell, I’ve worn that hat many times. Most of the time because I didn’t get the tone (hard to convey in the web).

I’m firmly in number 2 (yes I said it, put your jokes down). Concerned. Taking any safeguard I can to keep me (and most importantly ) my kids safe.

So if you choose not to come back to this thread, that’s fine. But if you are indeed a doc, your opinion of what’s going on will be valued by many, myself included.

Despite working in the health service for almost 30 years in some form or other (mainly business intelligence), I am not a doc despite my name, so sorry to disappoint
It is a nickname that comes from video gaming years (and years) ago

I too sit in your seond option, having a heart issue myself along with my mother who has asthma and is in the most affected age range, and I know it isn't a guarantee, but losing my dad to lung cancer a couple years ago has me wondering if that is hereditary or whether it was entriely down to the fact he smoked (I don't)
I do what I can to ensure I limit the chance of carrying the virus to my mother when we deliver her shopping for her etc, but we are out playing golf at our home course and doing things as and when we need to, so I am not hiding away but I respect the gravity of the situation

Due to the nature of our jobs, we are both able to work from home, so we haven't lost out financially, but we have friends who have their own business and are unable to work due to the nature of their job, so I do consider us fortunate in that respect

I read through this thread regularly and I have to bite my tongue over some of the things said on both sides of the fence, which is why I don't tend to post in it as I don't see the point of trying to reason with people who are blinkered in their vision, which is how some posts come across - that could be down to how it can be difficult to determine tone in the written word as you mentioned

I agree with what you said yesterday about your country being divided over this, and it is a sad state of affairs when people can't come together to find a way to work through this situation without bringing their beliefs and politics in to it

 

[Smiter]

Must work on our education system ... " hypocrites"

It's disgusting that Covid is causing such potential crimes. No excuse. You can kill people.

And this is not about churches, but any place where too many people congregate.

As we know, some churches have been hotspots for outbreaks. They need to limit capacity, use distancing and wear masks. Singing and speaking loudly spreads the virus more quickly. You can stream services if a church and congregation can't respect health measures. I am suspicious of preachers, too. Call me cynical, but I think some just want want to open up for people's money. There are other ways if the Church needs to pay its bills - phone calls, emails, etc. and can't take distancing measures.

I don't know how this Church conducted services, but there are reasonable solutions. If I were a Church, I would cooperate witih city officials and negotiate a compromise solution - I'd keep it quiet. But no excuse at all for committing crimes.

I’ve always thought this would be the place of most vulnerability. Churches are going to open. If they had full pews prior, how are you going to make them social distance? No one within 6’ means that there will be way under 25% capacity. “This pee is for your family now we have to leave the two in front and in back open”. No way will that work.

Older folks for the most part can’t zoom church or FB live it. And they’re the most at risk. At least they know where they’re going if they get this and die.

 

[Smiter]

From our experience, in-person giving is a lot cheaper. The local guys (i.e. ushers) don't skim as much off the top as PayPal, Clover, or Square for providing the collection service!

PayPal has a friends and family option that costs nothing. Just an FYI. When I’ve bought golf clubs off of someone that I trust, I use that. It offers no protection but costs nothing.

 

[JonMA1]

Played evergreen resort yesterday lakewood on the green today. Evergreen was a mess. 12” rough. Tee boxes full of weeds. Nice layout but im guessing rain has made it hard to maintain.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I played Evergreen a couple years back and wasn’t impressed. Lakewood was a nice course when I played it about 5 years ago.

We did get a lot of rain, but I’ve played two other courses in the area since the rain - Caberfae Peaks and Emerald Vale. Both were soggy in a couple spots but were in great shape other than that.

Elderado in Cadillac might be in good shape. A bit too pricey for me but it isn’t a bad track.

Good luck.

 

[Smiter]

Don’t apologize to me... Keep doing what you are doing, stay safe. Get ready to fill a bunch of scripts for Hydroxychloroquine ... If you are in charge of ordering over the counter supplements get a lot of Zinc.

Ha! I’ve been working 65+ hour weeks for what seems like forever now. My store was likely the only place in Ohio that you could still get TP at any point of this. I have zinc out the wazoo. I try to successfully predict the next big rush on things . Sometimes I win, lots of times I don’t.

But..... I have Lysol Wipes. I have thermometers. I have facemasks. Likely anything that is needed and wanted by this pandemic. Mainly because I’m not scared to gamble. Once I see the first signs of a run on it I scurry to find supplies. I’ve been there long enough to know how to work the back channels. I work them hard and thourougly.

Now lots of the limited items I let the person wanting them plead their case. If it’s someone wanting to sanitize their house I point them in the direction of the bleach, spray bottles, and paper towels. If it’s a business that genuinely needs something so that they can open/stay open, I’ll get them what they need.

Case in point, county sheriff came in looking for thermometers. They needed no contact or very little contact ones to scan everyone. I sold him the last three infrared forehead scanners that I had.

I’ve done my best to keep two local golf courses open. The owner texts me what she needs and I personally deliver them to her. She’s always treated me good and so now it’s my turn to pay her back.

I offered to procure surgical masks to the owners of this place if they needed them.

I’m doing everything I can to make this as bearable as I can for everyone that I can. I don’t like it, but since I can procure items that are mostly unavailable, I try to use my limited supply to help as many as I possibly can. I try to make it for the good of everyone.

Sorry for misinterpreting your post. Like I stated my brain is mush anymore. I hate it but it is what it is. Some people (not you) are as nasty as the day is long about all this. My brain jumps straight to criticism anytime there’s an area that could be interpreted as helpful vs not. Since I’ve watched very few Simpsons episodes I thought I was being attached personally. Obviously not the case, but A+B used to equal C. With the stupid meds I’m on I lose s lot of my cognizant thoughts. I felt you were making fun of me, obviously not the case. You make it up to Ohio and the rounds on me. You’re good folk and I know that.

Stay safe, stay sane. At least more sane then me, lol.

 

[RealPretendPsychic]

Ha! I’ve been working 65+ hour weeks for what seems like forever now. My store was likely the only place in Ohio that you could still get TP at any point of this. I have zinc out the wazoo. I try to successfully predict the next big rush on things . Sometimes I win, lots of times I don’t.

But..... I have Lysol Wipes. I have thermometers. I have facemasks. Likely anything that is needed and wanted by this pandemic. Mainly because I’m not scared to gamble. Once I see the first signs of a run on it I scurry to find supplies. I’ve been there long enough to know how to work the back channels. I work them hard and thourougly.

Now lots of the limited items I let the person wanting them plead their case. If it’s someone wanting to sanitize their house I point them in the direction of the bleach, spray bottles, and paper towels. If it’s a business that genuinely needs something so that they can open/stay open, I’ll get them what they need.

Case in point, county sheriff came in looking for thermometers. They needed no contact or very little contact ones to scan everyone. I sold him the last three infrared forehead scanners that I had.

I’ve done my best to keep two local golf courses open. The owner texts me what she needs and I personally deliver them to her. She’s always treated me good and so now it’s my turn to pay her back.

I offered to procure surgical masks to the owners of this place if they needed them.

I’m doing everything I can to make this as bearable as I can for everyone that I can. I don’t like it, but since I can procure items that are mostly unavailable, I try to use my limited supply to help as many as I possibly can. I try to make it for the good of everyone.

Sorry for misinterpreting your post. Like I stated my brain is mush anymore. I hate it but it is what it is. Some people (not you) are as nasty as the day is long about all this. My brain jumps straight to criticism anytime there’s an area that could be interpreted as helpful vs not. Since I’ve watched very few Simpsons episodes I thought I was being attached personally. Obviously not the case, but A+B used to equal C. With the stupid meds I’m on I lose s lot of my cognizant thoughts. I felt you were making fun of me, obviously not the case. You make it up to Ohio and the rounds on me. You’re good folk and I know that.

Stay safe, stay sane. At least more sane then me, lol.

You should have stocked up on launch monitors, hitting nets, and push carts! Darn things are impossible to find these days Also sanity is in the eye of the beholder? And very subjective

 

[Desmond]

I’ve always thought this would be the place of most vulnerability. Churches are going to open. If they had full pews prior, how are you going to make them social distance? No one within 6’ means that there will be way under 25% capacity. “This pee is for your family now we have to leave the two in front and in back open”. No way will that work.

Older folks for the most part can’t zoom church or FB live it. And they’re the most at risk. At least they know where they’re going if they get this and die.

Well, readiing an article on it, the Church was, after a delay, given the right to conduct drive-in services. I can see the City's side - Churches have had outbreaks and this was in a city of only 8,000. Imagine the spread if no distancing or masks in a small city.

 

[JDax]

A Pandemic doesn’t cancel out the right to assemble and worship.

The Founders understood pandemics, Washington crossed the Delaware during a pandemic.

 

[JB]

A Pandemic doesn’t cancel out the right to assemble and worship.

The Founders understood pandemics, Washington crossed the Delaware during a pandemic.

I agree with this, but I do think with modern times, there could be other ways to accomplish.

 

[Duffer Waldorf]

But they have other ways to request funds - like drive-in services. They can use the parking lot for that and Churches are doing that. They can attempt to limit capacity and practice distancing and sanitization.

But some don't want to do that, I would bet. They don't make as much money.

And as to your comparison, salons, etc. don't have other choices, Churches do. Restaurants have curbside at least and to-go alcohol sales - which are big profits.

A Church has options - some of whom you mentioned do not.

Biblically-sound churches don't "request funds". God loves a cheerful giver.

Other churches in the state tried the drive-in services. The local 'leaders' in Greenville, MS, sent the cops after them. :confused2:

 

[deuce]

From our experience, in-person giving is a lot cheaper. The local guys (i.e. ushers) don't skim as much off the top as PayPal, Clover, or Square for providing the collection service!

That's not my parishes experience, but at any point: how much does a stamp cost? There was nothing, is nothing, preventing people from keeping their church afloat during the shutdown by mailing in their tithe.

They want to reopen? Sure, do it. Have at it. But let's consider this for a moment. A third to a quarter of most American churches are comprised of the elderly, the people most at risk of this disease (and if we're being honest, the group most likely to attend church). I don't see many (if any) of these churches taking any approach to protect this high risk group. "Well, they should just stay home." Yeah sure, but they're still going to come into contact with family members not in that group who go to services and potentially bring something back home with them. Churches are probably also going to be places where the disease is more easily spread, especially if there is singing involved as singing expels more infectious aerosols than merely talking.

And this is where - to me - the divide is greatest. I think most people who are cautious about reopening, would be less so, if the people who are so gung-ho about getting things reopened would take some freaking cautionary measures to protect others. You can't just say "Let's shutter the elderly" because the elderly will always come into contact with others, most of whom will carry the virus asymptomatically. But "MuH FrEeDums!". A little bit of freaking compromise would go a long way IMO.

 

[Sean]

xenophobia memes yay

Xenophobia? LOL, thanks for the belly laugh, lol.

 

[Sean]

This has been the most divisive thread I’ve seen here. There are three categories that I’ve seen...

1. Those scared to death. This is the end of the world.

2. Those that have a healthy respect for this and what it’s doing to our future. They take it seriously but realize that we can’t cower in a corner. At least forever.

3. Those that couldn’t give a crap about this. Some think it’s a hoax, WAY overblown, etc. they’ll realize it’s serious once they (unfortunately and this in general) lose someone that they know and-or care about it.

At any rate, this place is by far the most level headed place I’ve come upon on the Internet. So when I’m seeing divisive and corrosive posts on here, I feel that it’s because people are scared. I hate it as I feel that everyone on this website is my friend. I unfortunately misinterpreted a post yesterday, asked exactly what was meant, and moved on. If I didn’t apologize then here it is @JDax , I’m sorry.

I deal with the results of this everyday in my job. From panic buying to sick people being in close contact, it has me concerned. Not overtly scared, but concerned.

I just want it over. You seem like a reasonable fellow, don’t run away because a few people are asshats at times in their posts. Hell, I’ve worn that hat many times. Most of the time because I didn’t get the tone (hard to convey in the web).

I’m firmly in number 2 (yes I said it, put your jokes down). Concerned. Taking any safeguard I can to keep me (and most importantly ) my kids safe.

So if you choose not to come back to this thread, that’s fine. But if you are indeed a doc, your opinion of what’s going on will be valued by many, myself included.

Compared to some of the stuff I have seen on the Internet, even the "uncivil" comments here are darn right polite in comparison.

 

[Desmond]

A Pandemic doesn’t cancel out the right to assemble and worship.

The Founders understood pandemics, Washington crossed the Delaware during a pandemic.

I understand. But I also understand a Church (or any institution, let's say 70k in a football stadium) does not have the right to endanger the general public.

Being free to choose does not mean, I don't think, that you can endanger public safety. Isn't that a balance? You can choose to attend services and become infected but if that infection goes outside and affects others, I think you have limitations and if sufficient evidence, you should choose to worship in another manner or someone will tell you how to choose - Think I'd rather choose to worship in a safe manner.

____

Snippets

New indications of the dangers of reopening churches during this pandemic: The Catoosa Baptist Tabernacle Church in Ringgold, Ga., and Holy Ghost Catholic Church in Houston have closed their doors for the second time. Several parishioners and leaders of those churches have reportedly tested positive for coronavirus after they reopened in recent weeks.

Officials are investigating whether a priest at the Houston church who died recently died of COVID-19.

“You bring a lot of people together. You put them in close quarters. You have a lot of proximity, people touching, people, you know, saying ‘Peace.' Bringing people together in religious events, where there could be crying, there could be shouting, there could be singing - I think all of those may bring significant risk of infection,” said Dr. Carlos del Rio, epidemiologist at the Emory University School of Medicine.

A church in rural Arkansas, according to a new Centers for Disease Control and Prevention report, was what some call a super-spreader.

Two people who went to events there in early March initiated a chain-reaction that infected at least 30 parishioners and killed at least three of them.

• A new CDC report examined what happened after two seemingly-healthy people attended church events in Arkansas, and then developed COVID-19 symptoms a few days later.
• 35 out of 92 attendees got COVID-19, and three of them died, according to the report. There were 26 more cases and one more death from people who came into contact with church attendees.
• This report adds to the growing pile of evidence on the dangers of gathering in groups during a pandemic.

 

[JB]

Thanks @vdubtx

 

[Sean]

Doctors in Northern California say they have seen more deaths from suicide than they’ve seen from the coronavirus during the pandemic.

“The numbers are unprecedented,” Dr. Michael deBoisblanc of John Muir Medical Center in Walnut Creek, California, told ABC 7 News about the increase of deaths by suicide, adding that he’s seen a “year’s worth of suicides” in the last four weeks alone.

 

[Sean]

More than 600 doctors have signed onto a letter to President Donald Trump urging him to resist others who want to keep the country shut down even longer.

I guess the science isn't settled.

 

[deuce]

More than 600 doctors have signed onto a letter to President Donald Trump urging him to resist others who want to keep the country shut down even longer.

I guess the science isn't settled.

Just for reference, 950,000 practicing physicians in the United States.

 

[JDax]

I understand. But I also understand a Church (or any institution, let's say 70k in a football stadium) does not have the right to endanger the general public.

Being free to choose does not mean, I don't think, that you can endanger public safety. Isn't that a balance? You can choose to attend services and become infected but if that infection goes outside and affects others, I think you have limitations and if sufficient evidence, you should choose to worship in another manner or someone will tell you how to choose - Think I'd rather choose to worship in a safe manner.

The issue is choice, you should stay home if you feel safer there (no one is telling you can’t stay at home).

Others should be able to leave home and go about their lives, if they don’t feel the same fear.

Should they feel the same fear you do? Maybe, but you don’t get to make that decision for them.
You only get to make that decision for you and you alone.

The idea that someone exercising their Freedom is selfish, is repugnant in a Free Society.

 

[Vortex]

I understand. But I also understand a Church (or any institution, let's say 70k in a football stadium) does not have the right to endanger the general public.

Being free to choose does not mean, I don't think, that you can endanger public safety. Isn't that a balance? You can choose to attend services and become infected but if that infection goes outside and affects others, I think you have limitations and if sufficient evidence, you should choose to worship in another manner or someone will tell you how to choose - Think I'd rather choose to worship in a safe manner.

____

Snippets

New indications of the dangers of reopening churches during this pandemic: The Catoosa Baptist Tabernacle Church in Ringgold, Ga., and Holy Ghost Catholic Church in Houston have closed their doors for the second time. Several parishioners and leaders of those churches have reportedly tested positive for coronavirus after they reopened in recent weeks.

Officials are investigating whether a priest at the Houston church who died recently died of COVID-19.

“You bring a lot of people together. You put them in close quarters. You have a lot of proximity, people touching, people, you know, saying ‘Peace.' Bringing people together in religious events, where there could be crying, there could be shouting, there could be singing - I think all of those may bring significant risk of infection,” said Dr. Carlos del Rio, epidemiologist at the Emory University School of Medicine.

A church in rural Arkansas, according to a new Centers for Disease Control and Prevention report, was what some call a super-spreader.

Two people who went to events there in early March initiated a chain-reaction that infected at least 30 parishioners and killed at least three of them.

• A new CDC report examined what happened after two seemingly-healthy people attended church events in Arkansas, and then developed COVID-19 symptoms a few days later.
• 35 out of 92 attendees got COVID-19, and three of them died, according to the report. There were 26 more cases and one more death from people who came into contact with church attendees.
• This report adds to the growing pile of evidence on the dangers of gathering in groups during a pandemic.

There’s at least one significant difference between a football stadium and a church.