PODCAST Off Course Episode 6: Walking vs Riding

[golfunfiltered]

I can guarantee, higher than with what he practices with and would be rolling up and playing you with.
The handicap system is based on players creating with the same intent that they would in tournament conditions.

Put it to you this way... if Tommy Morris Wannabe rolls up with some hickories and says he's a 9, HECK NO I don't want to play him.

 

[golfunfiltered]

If you carry 9 instead of 14, is it not realistic to assume that gapping issues would be present? How do you pick which ones to leave at home? Do you keep them all out of the bag for your competitive rounds as well? What's the end goal?

I guess it matters how "good" this hypothetical golfer is.

If said golfer is <10 handicap and only plays 9 clubs, then that is one hell of a golfer. I'm not thinking gapping is that big of an issue... although the risk is certainly there.

As it pertains to Sunday Bags, I always just assumed it was to make the bag lighter.

 

[RealPretendPsychic]

hahahahahahaha - Not sure why, but this cracked me up

Eye contact and flawless delivery

 

[Templet0n]

I am not sure the "how good" question matters. At least not in the classical way. I scratch handicap will probably stick pretty close to that with a min bag to a point. A higher handicap with have a higher deviation.

So, therefore your higher handicap has the larger sandbag potential and you will have to give him strokes based on his established handicap. There is no way to win!

 

[OGputtnfool]

Find something to help you be successful.

What if this means playing with 13 or less clubs?

 

[Canadan]

What if this means playing with 13 or less clubs?

then do that. For every single round you play.

I don't think anyone in here is arguing whether people should be able to do it (again, minus the extremes). Just be consistent about it.

 

[OGputtnfool]

Honestly, I don't know. This is one of those discussions where it's impossible to tell. Which makes it a fun debate.

All I know is that I don't hit all of my clubs every round. It's nice to have them there, certainly.

My best round ever, a +4, 75, was accomplished by only using 11 of my 14 clubs onhand. I never hit 5i, 6i, or LW. I could have, arguably, shot better if I hadn't hit my PW (moving me to 10/14) since it let to one of my bogies.

 

[OGputtnfool]

then do that. For every single round you play.

I don't think anyone in here is arguing whether people should be able to do it (again, minus the extremes). Just be consistent about it.

What if I've been playing with 13 clubs and just before the tournament, I pick up a new club that I want to put into play. Is that not kosher since I haven't played any of my other rounds with it yet?

 

[golfunfiltered]

My best round ever, a +4, 75, was accomplished by only using 11 of my 14 clubs onhand. I never hit 5i, 6i, or LW. I could have, arguably, shot better if I hadn't hit my PW (moving me to 10/14) since it let to one of my bogies.

There's something to be said about having too many choices.

 

[Canadan]

What if I've been playing with 13 clubs and just before the tournament, I pick up a new club that I want to put into play. Is that not kosher since I haven't played any of my other rounds with it yet?

depends. You feel like that's fair to others? Handicaps are meant to neutralize, not create advantage.

 

[JB]

I get the genuine feeling that some arguing here didn't actually listen to the show.

 

[Templet0n]

then do that. For every single round you play.

I don't think anyone in here is arguing whether people should be able to do it (again, minus the extremes). Just be consistent about it.

agreed. The course I play the most. I could realistically play with 11-12 clubs. Maybe 9 if I am playing well. But, if I travel, or play different courses etc. I want to have more options.

There is no rule that says you have to use all your clubs so having 14 vs. 13 wont hurt you. Right?

 

[Templet0n]

I am going to get this, and run around the course I am hawkeye from the avengers.

 

[RealPretendPsychic]

I am going to get this, and run around the course I am hawkeye from the avengers.

View attachment 8945000

There was an older gentleman and his wife who played at my club while I was growing up and they can’t have carried more than 4-5 clubs. They’d take their shots, pick up their tiny bags and jog to the ball. The amazing part is that they were in their late 70’s!

Edit: they did not show up to the club tournaments with cart bags and 14 clubs

 

[OGputtnfool]

depends. You feel like that's fair to others? Handicaps are meant to neutralize, not create advantage.

What if I find a ball that I think I like better than the one I built my handicap with? Can I change that?

 

[Templet0n]

What if I find a ball that I think I like better than the one I built my handicap with? Can I change that?

Of course, that is no different that changing clubs. Assuming it is conforming go for it. I think you knew that though silly..


Just don't play with a gutta purcha then switch to a prov for events.

 

[RealPretendPsychic]

What if I find a ball that I think I like better than the one I built my handicap with? Can I change that?

I’d call that progress, which is different than intentional sandbagging. Now if you post scores using one ball with the full intention of playing a tournament with a ball that would allow you to score lower, I’d call that cheating.

For as confusing as handicaps can be, I think fairly establishing one is very easy and actually requires effort to tamper with.

 

[OGputtnfool]

I’d call that progress, which is different than intentional sandbagging. Now if you post scores using one ball with the full intention of playing a tournament with a ball that would allow you to score lower, I’d call that cheating.

For as confusing as handicaps can be, I think fairly establishing one is very easy and actually requires effort to tamper with.

What if I practice with 3A balls because I'm too cheap to use 5A (or new) balls in practice and then use new balls (that presumably have a performance advantage over 3A balls) in the tournament?

 

[OGputtnfool]

Of course, that is no different that changing clubs. Assuming it is conforming go for it. I think you knew that though silly..


Just don't play with a gutta purcha then switch to a prov for events.

... but where is the "line" drawn? What about a Top Flite and a Srixon Z Star XV?

 

[PapaJohick]

Imagine what you could do with 14.

I wonder if the higher the handicap, the less clubs you actually need. Or better yet, can actually use.

I think this is highly accurate actually. Many higher handicaps have issue using most of their clubs and I hear all the timewith the strangers I play with, “need the 5 but I hate hitting it so I’m going to play the 7 instead. I always hit it nice” or “i typically cant hit my hybrid but I need that distance” then they top it or duff it and have to hit it again and sometimes again when they could have saved shots hitting the 7 two times and have a putt or chip.

I think you're missing my point.

If you want to play ALL your rounds with a certain number of clubs (my tolerance threshold ends far before 'just a putter' but whatever), which includes all handicap producing rounds as well as competitive rounds with the same number, no problem.

...my issue is with Sunday bags, where you take a smaller number of clubs out there and score it to your handicap - which could potentially be altering your potential. Note I said "COULD" be.

But before you only said think of what you could have shot. I get the difference between not using and not having, but realistically, how many people use legit every club in their bag consistently. I do that rarely and as I mentioned on twitter to you, I usually use between 5-8 clubs. Not saying I want to carry less but I don’t need all of them on my home course (per the rhetorical question from @HipCheck on twitter) to shoot my normal score. Which btw, I don’t think I’ve carried 14 clubs in a long time. It fluctuates between 11-13 throughout the year.

I agree on the handicap aspect of it though. And maybe that’s what I’m missing mostly since i have not been able to listen to the pod just yet.

 

[OGputtnfool]

I've just never seen it written that the handicap must be built and played in the same manner. What if a person builds their handicap walking and carrying, but then utilized a push cart during the torunament?

 

[baylrballa]

If you carry 9 instead of 14, is it not realistic to assume that gapping issues would be present? How do you pick which ones to leave at home? Do you keep them all out of the bag for your competitive rounds as well? What's the end goal?

I mean I'm all for that in theory, but someone can just as easily bring all 14 clubs and consciously only play 7 clubs on purpose. Cheaters gunna cheat. At least with it's easier to distinguish when they are sporting the joggers of golf bags.

 

[PapaJohick]

I get the genuine feeling that some arguing here didn't actually listen to the show.

As mentioned not yet. But will be soon

 

[RealPretendPsychic]

What if I practice with 3A balls because I'm too cheap to use 5A (or new) balls in practice and then use new balls (that presumably have a performance advantage over 3A balls) in the tournament?

How many strokes do you think you’re dropping based on that? If it’s measurable, then it’s not a good indication of your true handicap index.

I've just never seen it written that the handicap must be built and played in the same manner. What if a person builds their handicap walking and carrying, but then utilized a push cart during the torunament?

An index is supposed to be a measure of your potential. If the scores used to establish your index and therefore your potential are not indicative of your actual potential, then it’s not right.

 

[Canadan]

I mean I'm all for that in theory, but someone can just as easily bring all 14 clubs and consciously only play 7 clubs on purpose. Cheaters gunna cheat. At least with it's easier to distinguish when they are sporting the joggers of golf bags.

I think that's more the point here.

Lots of 'what if' stuff being presented, but I'm not going to tell people what is honest and what is dishonest - they need to determine that for themselves. I guess the point is, we're all in this together when we use a handicap to balance. I hope people who use the system respect it the way I do so we're at a balance come tournament time... and yes I might have more to lose because playing against a handicap rarely if ever benefits me.

You either cheat (the system), or you don't. It's pretty simple.