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Change the OB Rule?

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I've always fought against changing this rule, but after taking 4 lost ball/OB penalties the other day, two of which were in play but unable to be found, I'm starting to think maybe you guys have a point!
 
Canadan said:
Because OB areas must be avoided by golfers - for the safety of pretty much everyone not playing golf.

Backyards, roads, driving ranges, train tracks, parking lots... We definitely want golfers playing away from them, not into them.
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I'm with you on that. I try to avoid the back yards, roofs, parking lots, and ranges just as much as I try to avoid the woods and water. I just don't like being penalized an extra stroke because I found a roof and not a pond that runs from tee to green.
 
Tevenor said:
I still haven't seen the evidence that making it a 1 stroke penalty vs a 2 stroke penalty encourages people to hit into back yards and roads and such. OB doesn't stop balls from doing that now, right?
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I haven't seen anyone touting encouragement, but if you remove 1/2 the penalty, more people might take the chance.
 
Tevenor said:
I still haven't seen the evidence that making it a 1 stroke penalty vs a 2 stroke penalty encourages people to hit into back yards and roads and such. OB doesn't stop balls from doing that now, right?
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I think we both know that arguing either side of this one is completely arbitrary and dependent on the individual.

Find me a reckless individual who hits driver on every hole no matter how challenging and I'll find you two guys that play away from trouble at any chance as soon as OB comes into play. I do it myself on numerous locations of my home course.
 
FWIW we play the local rule in a few tourn,ents
Canadan said:
Not with the new potential local rule addition that was added in 2019. Anyone can use this, or encourage their course to adapt it (for both, actually).

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We use it in one of the local amateur tours I play with so that it speeds up play. There are no complaints. We also play a modified version of it In another tour I play in. The only difference is that it does not apply to OB, just lost balls.
 
Minor defense of OB rule. Besides protecting private property or land uses where golfers should not go, I would think OB gives course designers an additional tool. Certainly the extra stiff OB penalty shapes a golfer's choices on a hole. So if rules do change around OB, I do believe that keeping the stronger penalty over a hazard is reasonable. Really the only place I support an OB change is for pace of play. Hitting OB comes at a price; that's golf. The local rule change largely does that already by allowing a drop with 2 stroke penalty.
 
Molten said:
I mean this with no disrespect but if I saw someone making the walk back on a Saturday morning round, I would lose my marbles if their pace of play was bad.
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If their pace of play is bad, you should probably "lose it" on them even if they don't walk back to the tee. Slow play is worse than almost anything else that can happen on the course.
 
billyh said:
I'm with you on that. I try to avoid the back yards, roofs, parking lots, and ranges just as much as I try to avoid the woods and water. I just don't like being penalized an extra stroke because I found a roof and not a pond that runs from tee to green.
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I don't know too many people who enjoy getting penalized regardless of how many strokes it is :ROFLMAO:
 
OGputtnfool said:
I haven't seen anyone touting encouragement, but if you remove 1/2 the penalty, more people might take the chance.
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Take the chance to hit away from the direction of the hole? I am guessing you are talking about that slim situation where an OB situation exists on a straight line of flight to the green from yiur ball position. How many holes have this situation from the tee? I've played over 20 courses around here and none of them have that situation. So we should keep overly harsh penalty for the 1% of 1% chance it might happen.

Most average golfers:
1) aren't willing to risk any penalty area much less OB.
2) are hitting the ball far enough to fly over any penalty area, including any OB.


So how does the extra stroke really impact that again?
 
GoldenBuff said:
Minor defense of OB rule. Besides protecting private property or land uses where golfers should not go, I would think OB gives course designers an additional tool. Certainly the extra stiff OB penalty shapes a golfer's choices on a hole. So if rules do change around OB, I do believe that keeping the stronger penalty over a hazard is reasonable. Really the only place I support an OB change is for pace of play. Hitting OB comes at a price; that's golf. The local rule change largely does that already by allowing a drop with 2 stroke penalty.
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Even without the local rule, hitting a provisional takes minimal time.
 
Tevenor said:
Take the chance to hit away from the direction of the hole? I am guessing you are talking about that slim situation where an OB situation exists on a straight line of flight to the green from yiur ball position. How many holes have this situation from the tee? I've played over 20 courses around here and none of them have that situation. So we should keep overly harsh penalty for the 1% of 1% chance it might happen.

Most average golfers:
1) aren't willing to risk any penalty area much less OB.
2) are hitting the ball far enough to fly over any penalty area, including any OB.


So how does the extra stroke really impact that again?
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I can think of 2 courses within 10 miles of my house that have scenarios that fit that description. Just because it doesn't affect you doesn't mean it's not out there.

I think you give the "average golfer" too much credit, too.
 
OGputtnfool said:
Even without the local rule, hitting a provisional takes minimal time.
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The problem we had on one of our tours is that it happened too many times where no provisional was hit because the player was “certain” the ball stayed in bounds. So it was decided to implement the local rule once it became available.
 
wubears71 said:
The problem we had on one of our tours is that it happened too many times where no provisional was hit because the player was “certain” the ball stayed in bounds. So it was decided to implement the local rule once it became available.
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Yeah, that's where, especially in tournament play, I'd be very liberal with provisionals.
 
GoldenBuff said:
True. OB really isn't that bad. I've bladed chips that took more time and cost me more strokes. ;)
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I've had spells of horrible bunker play that cost me several strokes, too... and one round of 79. Maybe we should just make a rule allowing a free drop out of bunkers to save strokes.
 
OGputtnfool said:
If their pace of play is bad, you should probably "lose it" on them even if they don't walk back to the tee. Slow play is worse than almost anything else that can happen on the course.
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Preach. It’s easier to grumble quietly when they are 250 yards away. If they walk back to me, they will hear the grumbling much louder.
 
Canadan said:
I think we both know that arguing either side of this one is completely arbitrary and dependent on the individual.

Find me a reckless individual who hits driver on every hole no matter how challenging and I'll find you two guys that play away from trouble at any chance as soon as OB comes into play. I do it myself on numerous locations of my home course.
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Realize that OB can come into play on more than tee shots (Driver or otherwise). Just look at Phil. He hit it OB from a greenside bunker this past weekend!
 
McLovin said:
it's the only way I can think of to merge the 3 types of penalties. I think stroke and distance is stupid. and the yellow stakes still confuse the hell out of me. but the points about not hitting from ob make a lot of sense. maybe it's in private property or property unrelated to the course, and you shouldn't hit out of there let alone trespass. maybe it's unsafe for some reason even if you can hit. so if we merge the 3 penalties, disallowing you from hitting the ball solves that.

I feel the ability to hit the ball out of the hazard is not by design. in my area, it's more often due to drought or abnormal weather conditions. e.g. a water hazard that is dried out is still marked red stakes because it was supposed to, well, have water in it! cool, now you can hit out of it, but that wasn't the intent.
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Eh I guess. Luckily I'm pretty unfamiliar with yellow stakes, I honestly don't recall many courses I've played that has yellow stakes and I'll read what it says on the scorecard on how to score it. I'm fine with white stakes, and I am aware you can elect to drop from the fairway and you're hitting your 4th shot, not something I do. I just drop in bounds from the rough of where I went out and hit my 3rd shot.

In terms of the red stakes hazard. I hit a fat 9iron on the Par 3 and cleared the water barely, but I was up. That next shot is my 2nd shot, leave red stakes the way they are.
 
LICC said:
You aren’t really trying to argue that stroke and distance is not a double penalty? This is a joke?
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No not joking. I just see it as one penalty stroke. I don't see the loss of distance as a penalty in itself, that will, or might show up as a second penalty stroke on a score card. It's just part of the over all penalty for hitting a bad shot.

At the pro level, on a par 4, it's still a possibility to make par after hitting 3 from the tee box. I've seen pros make par on a par three, after hitting their first shot into the water, and hitting their 3rd shot from the tee box.

I will agree that the loss of distance part supports slow play, and should be changed in the non professional, or sanctioned levels of golf. Slow play seems to be a bigger problem than the ob penalty.
 
WLG1952 said:
No not joking. I just see it as one penalty stroke. I don't see the loss of distance as a penalty in itself, that will, or might show up as a second penalty stroke on a score card. It's just part of the over all penalty for hitting a bad shot.

At the pro level, on a par 4, it's still a possibility to make par after hitting 3 from the tee box. I've seen pros make par on a par three, after hitting their first shot into the water, and hitting their 3rd shot from the tee box.

I will agree that the loss of distance part supports slow play, and should be changed in the non professional, or sanctioned levels of golf. Slow play seems to be a bigger problem than the ob penalty.
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why would loss of distance support slow play?

Sensible play is to hit a provisional and then concede the first one being lost once you cannot find it. Takes an extra 20 seconds.
 
Canadan said:
So you feel that from a scoring perspective it's too penalizing to be OB?

I think it makes perfect sense. Most locations that are marked OB are intentionally set to deter golfers from hitting there.
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But so is a pond that is adjacent to the fairway. It is the same thing from a playing perspective.
 
OGputtnfool said:
That's why I play provisionals liberally. That being said, I have made the walk back when necessary.
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There is no way that any one playing a NYC area public course is making a walk back to hit another tee ball. The groups behind you would just get violent if you tried it (exaggerating, but it wouldn't be pretty).
 
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