Titleist Tour Speed Golf Ball Review

[Iceman!]

I don’t think people grasp the difference/gap from #1 in golf ball market share (Titleist) to #2, it’s more than significant.

Isn't the difference between #1 and #2 golf ball market share like almost most double in sales?

 

[DataDude]

I think they know Titileist is the #1 selling ball brand in golf, because it is, and that’s all the education they want or need. And that’s OK, to each their own.

I don't think anyone is going to learn anything about Titleist balls to refute them being #1 selling. That's the problem for the rest of the competitors. You can say you've made a great ball, and you may have something that fits some golfers better than what Titleist offers, but no one is going to claim they made a higher quality product than a ProV1. Titleist has maintained quality control, high performance, and consistent improvement for years and years. They have earned their perch. It's like Apple or Nike. Competitors can say we made a ball just as good as that, but until they can honestly say and prove they made something better or Titleist slips up and let's their quality degrade Titleist will be #1.

 

[JB]

I don't think anyone is going to learn anything about Titleist balls to refute them being #1 selling. That's the problem for the rest of the competitors. You can say you've made a great ball, and you may have something that fits some golfers better than what Titleist offers, but no one is going to claim they made a higher quality product than a ProV1. Titleist has maintained quality control, high performance, and consistent improvement for years and years. They have earned their perch. It's like Apple or Nike. Competitors can say we made a ball just as good as that, but until they can honestly say and prove they made something better or Titleist slips up and let's their quality degrade Titleist will be #1.

I am not sure I agree with this. And that takes nothing away from Titleist as a brand. There are quite a few who would argue quality of cover construction of cast vs TPU (which Titleist just entered). There are many that before AVX would say that they were not near the quality of others in low compression.

I think your comparison to Nike is well made. Lots of love for that brand over the years, but I am not sure any competitor of theirs would say its because they make better or higher quality products.

I will ask this same question a different way. Would you say that Titleist clubs are inferior because they don't come close to even sniffing the sales of other brands? As a user of those clubs, I would assume the answer is no.

 

[glage]

Received a sleeve from Titleist to try out. Nursing a couple of injuries so it will be a couple of weeks before I try them out but we will see how they fare once I inject them into the competition between the BRX and CS. I’ve been leaning towards the CS 2020 but the matter is still unresolved.

 

[Jman]

Received a sleeve from Titleist to try out. Nursing a couple of injuries so it will be a couple of weeks before I try them out but we will see how they fare once I inject them into the competition between the BRX and CS. I’ve been leaning towards the CS 2020 but the matter is still unresolved.

That’s awesome! Look forward to your thoughts!

 

[Jman]

Isn't the difference between #1 and #2 golf ball market share like almost most double in sales?

It’s Grand Canyon like

 

[DataDude]

I am not sure I agree with this. And that takes nothing away from Titleist as a brand. There are quite a few who would argue quality of cover construction of cast vs TPU (which Titleist just entered). There are many that before AVX would say that they were not near the quality of others in low compression.

I think your comparison to Nike is well made. Lots of love for that brand over the years, but I am not sure any competitor of theirs would say its because they make better or higher quality products.

I will ask this same question a different way. Would you say that Titleist clubs are inferior because they don't come close to even sniffing the sales of other brands? As a user of those clubs, I would assume the answer is no.

I didn't say Titleist makes better products I said no one makes one that is objectively better than their product. If you want to take their spot your product has to objectively beat theirs, not tie it. Only objectively better results will move someone's subjectivity off of a top brand. I think there are some balls as good as what Titleist offers, but they're not better which is the problem when Titleist is kicking their ass in branding.

No I think Callaway makes the best products to fire off of a mat with a launch monitor. Not sure who makes the best clubs for the course, but I am playing my best with Titleist gear. I like spin though, it keeps things strait.

 

[JB]

I didn't say Titleist makes better products I said no one makes one that is objectively better than their product. If you want to take their spot your product has to objectively beat theirs, not tie it. Only objectively better results will move someone's subjectivity off of a top brand. I think there are some balls as good as what Titleist offers, but they're not better which is the problem when Titleist is kicking their ass in branding.

I must not have conveyed that message well. Other companies have and do say this very thing. Just about every year.
They also offer them for less money. As the video states, it wasn't that long ago, Titleist marketed that compression didn't matter and that all golfers should play Pro V1 and Pro V1x. Bridgestone, Callaway, Srixon, TaylorMade and others very much said they were incorrect and showed data throughout marketing and testing. That changed of course with AVX. Like clubs, there are limits in golf balls and what can be produced.

I say all of that to say that it takes nothing away from their products, which are high quality, but I am a not huge into a correlation between sales and performance as it relates to the golfer (just my opinion). To use an example, the NXT Tour (which is discontinued) was the #3 selling golf ball on the market for a period of time. It was a turd considering its price point. Just about every company had a ball at that price that was objectively better than a 3 piece surlyn ball at that price (at the time, many tour level balls were same price). It was marketed brilliantly and sold because of it, not because of performance.

The Nike example was a good one. It is the same reason in reverse that their clubs have not shared the same success, which is a shame considering how well the current crop of metal woods performs.

Relating it back to this ball, I will be careful what I say the future holds, but it is polarizing in the people I have spoken to. Some believe it will take away Pro V1 or AVX users, others believe it will bring in a different audience that prefers the look or believes there are performance benefits to TPU.

 

[TCB2010]

They’re not designed to be a ProV1 though.

And again, I assure you, they’re not at all “rocks”.

i understand, it may look like i dont but i get what your saying.
i think when names start getting tossed around within one thats being reviewed its easy to start comparing and say otherwise but again i get it.

 

[TCB2010]

Looking forward to your thoughts.

3 piece urethane on paper is the same construction of the Pro V1. With that said, it is a different compression and different urethane material than that ball. I am looking forward to your thoughts as to what you see as the differences found.

when do these hit the shelves, i have not seen them yet, maybe our shops will have them really soon?

 

[JB]

when do these hit the shelves, i have not seen them yet, maybe our shops will have them really soon?

I believe the article states the 7th.

 

[DataDude]

I must not have conveyed that message well. Other companies have and do say this very thing. Just about every year.
They also offer them for less money. As the video states, it wasn't that long ago, Titleist marketed that compression didn't matter and that all golfers should play Pro V1 and Pro V1x. Bridgestone, Callaway, Srixon, TaylorMade and others very much said they were incorrect and showed data throughout marketing and testing. That changed of course with AVX. Like clubs, there are limits in golf balls and what can be produced.

I say all of that to say that it takes nothing away from their products, which are high quality, but I am a not huge into a correlation between sales and performance as it relates to the golfer (just my opinion). To use an example, the NXT Tour (which is discontinued) was the #3 selling golf ball on the market for a period of time. It was a turd considering its price point. Just about every company had a ball at that price that was objectively better than a 3 piece surlyn ball at that price (at the time, many tour level balls were same price). It was marketed brilliantly and sold because of it, not because of performance.

The Nike example was a good one. It is the same reason in reverse that their clubs have not shared the same success, which is a shame considering how well the current crop of metal woods performs.

Relating it back to this ball, I will be careful what I say the future holds, but it is polarizing in the people I have spoken to. Some believe it will take away Pro V1 or AVX users, others believe it will bring in a different audience that prefers the look or believes there are performance benefits to TPU.

I think these balls serve the same purpose as the medium popcorn does at the movie theater.

You go in and see prices like this:

Small $3.50
Medium $7.50
Large $8.00

You may only want a medium, but for $.50 more you're going to buy a large. Theaters actually tested these pricing structures. When the prices looked like they sold more larges than the other 2 combined. When they priced them like the below they sold an even mix of all 3 sizes.

Small $3.50
Medium $6.00
Large $8.00

So the ridiculously priced medium makes the large so attractive that even people who were going to buy a small get a large. Maybe that's what Titleist is really about?

 

[TCB2010]

lets just clear the air a little with this-

prov1- elastomer urethane - 3 piece
avx- thermoset urethane - 3 piece
tour speed- thermoplastic urethane - 3 piece
exp01- mtr urethane - 3 piece
tour soft- ionomer - 2 piece
velocity- surlyn - 2 piece
trufeel- truflex - 2 piece

 

[Jman]

I decided to combine two busy alignment aids today

 

[Jman]

lets just clear the air a little with this-

prov1- elastomer urethane - 3 piece
avx- thermoset urethane - 3 piece
tour speed- thermoplastic urethane - 3 piece
exp01- mtr urethane - 3 piece
tour soft- ionomer - 2 piece
velocity- surlyn - 2 piece
trufeel- truflex - 2 piece

Exp01 is this ball.

 

[JB]

Exp01 is this ball.

Sort of. According to Titleist, a prototype version during testing became this ball.

 

[Jman]

Sort of. According to Titleist, a prototype version during testing became this ball.

Yup, I know.

 

[TCB2010]

I will ask this same question a different way. Would you say that Titleist clubs are inferior because they don't come close to even sniffing the sales of other brands? As a user of those clubs, I would assume the answer is no.

i think weve gone over this before and if i remember correctly there are other brands that are far ahead of titleist clubs in sales, correct?

 

[Jman]

i think weve gone over this before and if i remember correctly there are other brands that are far ahead of titleist clubs in sales, correct?

Yes

 

[JB]

i think weve gone over this before and if i remember correctly there are other brands that are far ahead of titleist clubs in sales, correct?

Yes that is correct. Depending on category of course. Titleist is currently #1 in wedge sales. That is the only category they are leading in sales right now. In fact not in the top 3 in any Driver, FW, Hybrid or Irons and in some cases not in top 4.

That should not take away from their quality level or even performance. Just my belief that sometimes sales numbers don't paint an entire picture. If it did, the Tour Soft (not Tour Speed) would be a better ball than a number of 3-4 layer urethane covered balls.

 

[TCB2010]

Exp01 is this ball.

that would be my guess if someone was to compare what the tour speed is against
the "mtr developmental cover system" experiment could now be called thermoplastic as a final name

 

[Flipit]

I didn't say Titleist makes better products I said no one makes one that is objectively better than their product. If you want to take their spot your product has to objectively beat theirs, not tie it. Only objectively better results will move someone's subjectivity off of a top brand. I think there are some balls as good as what Titleist offers, but they're not better which is the problem when Titleist is kicking their ass in branding.

No I think Callaway makes the best products to fire off of a mat with a launch monitor. Not sure who makes the best clubs for the course, but I am playing my best with Titleist gear. I like spin though, it keeps things strait.

Of course golf balls are subjective to each golfer. I feel the Bridgestone Tour BX is a better ball now. However it’s tough to get folks to try something new when they are comfortable.

 

[DataDude]

Yes that is correct. Depending on category of course. Titleist is currently #1 in wedge sales. That is the only category they are leading in sales right now. In fact not in the top 3 in any Driver, FW, Hybrid or Irons and in some cases not in top 4.

That should not take away from their quality level or even performance. Just my belief that sometimes sales numbers don't paint an entire picture. If it did, the Tour Soft (not Tour Speed) would be a better ball than a number of 3-4 layer urethane covered balls.

Sales are some function of current quality, past quality, and branding IMO. Titleist balls are leading because they are high quality now, they have have been high quality as long as any golfer alive can remember, and they have the strongest brand in the ball business. Their brand is so strong that underdog lovers refuse to buy them because they are so beloved. Kind of like people hate bands when they become popular or hate on Starbucks because everyone drinks it.

 

[jjfcpa]

I'll compare it to the CS 2020 which I have found excellent. I compared the CS 2020 to the Maxfli Tour and they are very close with the edge to the CS 2020. The ProV1 is an excellent ball but at a price point that just seems unreasonable when there are other balls that are very close if not comparable... such as, Snell MTB Black / X, CS 2020, and Maxfli Tour.

 

[Flipit]

I'll compare it to the CS 2020 which I have found excellent. I compared the CS 2020 to the Maxfli Tour and they are very close with the edge to the CS 2020. The ProV1 is an excellent ball but at a price point that just seems unreasonable when there are other balls that are very close if not comparable... such as, Snell MTB Black / X, CS 2020, and Maxfli Tour.

Looking forward to your thoughts. I always liked the ProV1 but I’ve played 2 balls this year that I think are better all around.